Boys will be boys—and should be, to become true men

[twf]

Oh, in the context of a spa…
My (male) massage therapist works out of a medical clinic. His colleagues are physiotherapists and doctors. Depends how you market it I guess. My benefits pay for it. (I am a man).

 

[phil19034]

Oh, in the context of a spa…
My (male) massage therapist works out of a medical clinic. His colleagues are physiotherapists and doctors. Depends how you market it I guess. My benefits pay for it. (I am a man).

yeah, that’s different

 

[Irishmom2]

How is that different?

 

[twf]

Perception is different. The environment is different. Technically the actual treatment should be the same.

 

[prayerrider]

I think it can be reasonably posited that some of the present trend to prescribe ADD/ADHD medicine may be, even if unintended, to “medicate the boy out of them”, rendering them more docile

Absolutely! I’ve worked in public school education for 11 years and I find it totally obvious that boys simply aren’t wired to sit still for long periods of time. I give extra recess time for class rewards and free time at the end of the day, when the kids are mentally checked out anyway. I think all kids, boys and girls, need more frequent breaks, with movement.
Trying to make boys more feminine will necessitate more drugging of boys. Thank God I went through school before the advent of routinely putting kids on pharmaceuticals. It’s a disgrace!

 

[Sarcelle]

I think all kids, boys and girls, need more frequent breaks, with movement.

I think all of us need breaks with movement, whether at work or school.

Exercise is good and can put a stop to or hopefully reverse our increasing obesity problem.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Thank God I went through school before the advent of routinely putting kids on pharmaceuticals. It’s a disgrace!

In all honesty I think that dealing with ADHD should include learning methods that play to these individuals’ strengths. Occasionally meds should be used but IMO they should be a last resort (I have 2 kids with ADHD…both girls although hubby and I also exhibit some qualities.) people with ADHD hyperfocus and when they do, they can accomplish great things…Michael Phelps anyone?

 

[blackforest]

The Royal Spanish Academy has nothing to do with Spanish outside of the Spanish Crown. Spanish in Spain has been different from Spanish everywhere else for a very long time now.

Yes, I acknowledged this.

If we are talking about having a career in cosmetology, becoming a manicurists, pedicurists, an estheticians, etc; or spending all free time at the spa, nail salon, or developing a real love of clothes shopping (as an activity in of itself)… I really have never met any who were not gay. (NOTE: I know not all gay men are effeminate - there are plenty of gay men who don’t like that stuff either)

This reiterates my point that these matters are cultural. In any other time and place, these activities could be accepted as “guy things.”

I do think that there’s a greater stigma on being an effeminate man than a tomboyish woman.

Oh, and for whatever it’s worth, a hairstylist I had in my former town is a straight male. With all of the references he made to his girlfriend, I could tell he was tired of the stereotypes.

 

[blackforest]

Did you hear about this? https://abc13.com/education/texas-school-district-tests-out-four-recesses-a-day/2750687/

Seeing as most kids get less time on school playgrounds than maximum security prisoners get in the exercise yard, I’d say they’re doing great things in Texas.

 

[signit]

If we are talking about having a career in cosmetology, becoming a manicurists, pedicurists, an estheticians, etc; or spending all free time at the spa, nail salon, or developing a real love of clothes shopping (as an activity in of itself)… I really have never met any who were not gay. (NOTE: I know not all gay men are effeminate - there are plenty of gay men who don’t like that stuff either)

No disrespect intended to any gays . . . .

I’m going to gently suggest that gay men are disproportionately represented in certain careers, not because there’s anything intrinsically “gay” about them, but because historically gay men have chosen jobs where they’d be likely to be accepted.

Just to take an example, if a gay man worked as a women’s hairdresser in the 1970s, he probably wouldn’t be laughed at by the other male hairdressers. In some of the other jobs the other men wouldn’t be quite as nice to him.

 

[Padres1969]

It means the same thing to most religious and non religious people.

 

[prayerrider]

I heard Coach Rollo of national HS football champs Mater Dei speak once at a football clinic. He said he likes those ADHD kids at linebacker.

 

[prayerrider]

I think that is absolutely wonderful! It really should be a no brainer!

 

[twf]

Yes, exactly. While gender is real and natural, many stereotypical masculine or feminine qualities are strictly cultural and change over time. Renaissance aristocratic men probably spent more time on making themselves look “pretty”, for lack of a better word, than modern Western women do… and yes, tights and lace were VERY manly. We even see it with priests of a more traditional variety… lots of lace…

Whatever people on this forum want to believe, the John Wayne standard of masculinity is NOT an eternal Catholic standard that has never and will never change.

 

[Thorolfr]

prayerrider:

Thank God I went through school before the advent of routinely putting kids on pharmaceuticals. It’s a disgrace!

In all honesty I think that dealing with ADHD should include learning methods that play to these individuals’ strengths. Occasionally meds should be used but IMO they should be a last resort (I have 2 kids with ADHD…both girls although hubby and I also exhibit some qualities.)

Because of the stigma attached to using psychiatric medications, I used to be in the anti-medication crowd, too. Even after I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, I avoided using medication for it for another 5 years, and it was a mistake to do so. Not only can unmedicated ADHD wreck someone’s career, it can also wreck their marriage. Studies have shown that the marriages of people with ADHD are much more likely to end in divorce because it can be really difficult to live with someone who has unmedicated ADHD.

And if someone has untreated ADHD, it can also kill them or kill someone else since studies have shown that people with ADHD are much more likely to be involved in a serious, even fatal, car accident. One of the top ADHD researchers in the world, Russell Barkley, is passionate about insisting that anyone with ADHD who is going to drive a car only do so if they’re medicated when they’re behind the wheel. And it’s very personal for him, too, because his own brother who had ADHD was killed in a car accident. Barkley is the editor of the huge 4 pound, 898 page book, Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder: A Handbook for Diagnosis and Treatment, which is the standard clinical reference guide on ADHD.

And I’ve become passionate about this issue, too, because I myself was involved in a car accident before I started taking ADHD medication in which both my car and the car of the other driver were completely totaled and we were both injured. This accident could easily have been fatal both for me and for the other driver. I still feel bad because I was responsible for injuring someone else. And because I was at fault, the other driver sued and my insurance company had to pay a pretty hefty settlement, not to mention that the cost of my own car insurance went through the roof for several years afterwards and is still higher than what it would probably have been otherwise. I’ll be paying for this for a long time.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Studies have shown that the marriages of people with ADHD are much more likely to end in divorce because it can be really difficult to live with someone who has unmedicated ADHD.

That I can believe. I think there is definitely a time and place for meds. I’m not sure how long they take to work and if ADHD meds even work that way (as in, if you have to take them all the time for the cumulative effect or if they can be taken as needed).

I also think that for girls, having ADHD (and other neurological conditions like Autism) tend to be misdiagnosed and under-diagnosed. My younger daughter is a Chatty Cathy…the child simply does NOT stop talking or moving…EVER (lol, well maybe except for sleep ). My older daughter just seems distracted but will intensely focus on things she likes. They both manage fine in school (the younger one tends to be told to be quiet more frequently but she’s a good student so I don’t care too much).

 

[prayerrider]

Regarding classroom behavior–studies have suggested that girls mature emotionally and psychologically at least two years earlier than boys. I don’t know how true that is, because there is no gender neutral standard of comparison. After thousands of classroom hours, I do know that boys and girls are fundamentally different at learning. More of my classroom management time and effort are devoted to boys. But as challenging as they can be, I will not be a party to psychologically and emotionally emasculating them.

I’ve learned that most boys respect male authority figures more who are caringly paternal. I use my coaching skills and sports enthusiasm in the classroom more with the boys. I use my whistle and “coach voice” in the classroom. And I give extra recess as whole class rewards. Physical activity should always be a reward.

 

[phil19034]

It means the same thing to most religious and non religious people.

My only point is “boys will be boys” can apply NON-sinful activities too

A boy accidentally breaking a window while playing baseball or catch in the backyard is a great non-sinful example of “boys will be boys.”

 

[Thorolfr]

people with ADHD hyperfocus and when they do, they can accomplish great things…Michael Phelps anyone?

I’ve been on a lot of ADHD forums and there’s almost always someone there who talks about how “hyperfocus” is some sort of super power that people with ADHD have. And yes, it can sometimes allow me to do amazing things to stay focused like a laser on something that interests me for five or six hours straight. If the thing that I’m interested in happens to coincide with something that I should be doing, it’s great. But so-called hyperfocus is often not a good thing. It’s a form of perseveration which results from the failure of the brain to shift easily and at the appropriate time from one task to another task. In that sense it can be an impairment. There’s a little article on hyperfocus in the latest copy of the ADHD magazine Additude by the well known ADHD specialist Ari Tuckman in which he says:

Hyperfocus can be both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, people can be productive when hyperfocusing and it feels great to be in the groove. However, your focus may not be on the most important task.

Hyperfocus seems like a laser-like channeling of your attention, but it really reflects a temporary loss of the big picture. When people hyperfocus, they lock in in on one task, and forget about other tasks and the time available to do them. Time disappears - at least until you become aware of the big picture again. That’s when you realize that you ignored something important.

The big problem with “hyperfocus” is that it is uncontrollable and most of the time when I’m hyperfocused on something that interests me for hours at a time, everything else that is less interesting that I should also be doing falls by the wayside. Chores don’t get done, pets don’t get the attention they deserve and my relationships with my family and friends suffer because I don’t spend nearly as much time with them as I should. My tendency to hyyperfocus can cause my life to become totally unbalanced. Hyperfocus is one of the many reasons that ADHD can be so hard on a marriage.

 

[F_Marturana]

Some things in your list I don’t agree with. Falling out of trees for one. Boys don’t come with extra hard skulls or thicker brains.

My son has a brain injury due to an aneurysm. I see what that’s like.

Head trauma is a major cause of brain injuries that can be prevented. Falling, skateboard injuries, bike injuries, pool injuries. Why would we encourage sons to not be careful?

And also as a former girl (I’m middle aged), we don’t like being teased. Why can’t we teach boys to be nice to girls and other boys?

It’s not so far from teasing to harassing. A girl should think being mistreated means a boy likes her.