Bp. Brom Changes His Mind

[HagiaSophia]

Richardols:

Has any diocese denied church services for deceased drug dealers?

Drug dealers’ families don’t usually disclose that as the deceased’s occupation; there have been funerals denied in the past for abortion providers however.

 

[Mt19_26]

I live in San Diego and when he denied the funeral I finally thought he was doing the right thing. Now he changed his mind?!?!!? I guess I should have known it was too good to be true.

How does the Church deal with bishops that do not know how to stand up for the faith? Do they ever get replaced?

 

[fix]

Mt19:26:

I live in San Diego and when he denied the funeral I finally thought he was doing the right thing. Now he changed his mind?!?!!? I guess I should have known it was too good to be true.

How does the Church deal with bishops that do not know how to stand up for the faith? Do they ever get replaced?

Not these days, but they may get promoted to cardinal.

 

[Mt19_26]

fix:

Not these days, but they may get promoted to cardinal.

Does anyone have any hope for sweeping changes with the next Pope? The San Diego diocese has many problems. Although I wasn’t aware of this I have been told that the San Diego diocese has a reputation of being one of the worst in the U.S. Here’s some interesting reads from a local news letter:

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/roamin/index.htm

Not all of them are bad but alot of them are. Here’s an interesting one about a parish near me:

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/roamin/1103roam.htm

 

[Traditional_Ang]

fix:

I was surprised when he did the right thing the first time. I am not surprised he capitulated. Where are the Shepherds?

FIX:

It may that they have become “HIRELINGS” and have become more afraid of the courts and of the secular society than of God. If so, the Catholic Church in America is in trouble, because they will always equivocate and run when "Wolves’ show up to threaten the “Sheep”! They will always lack the COURAGE of their convictions.

You need to pray for and demand better, and you need to pray that ALL of your bishops would have the COURAGE to do what is RIGHT, because, NO virtue no matter how noble is worth anything without COURAGE.

If this doesn’t change, and the Shepherds don’t have the courage to lead the sheep in the right paths and defend them from the “wolves”, YOU WILL LOSE A LOT MORE SHEEP!

That just might trigger the time known as The Great Apostacy!

Pray for the Shepherds that they may fear God more than the Civil Authorities and the Secular Society and that that fear would give them the COURAGE to stand up for Our Lord and for what’s right!

Blessings and Peace, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Matthew:

IMO, the problems have been getting worse (In America) since the 1920’s (if not before). I think the situation reached a sort of stasis in the 1980’s, but that, thanks to things like the Internet, we now know more about the situation…
Mt19:26:

Does anyone have any hope for sweeping changes with the next Pope? The San Diego diocese has many problems. Although I wasn’t aware of this I have been told that the San Diego diocese has a reputation of being one of the worst in the U.S. Here’s some interesting reads from a local news letter:

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/roamin/index.htm

Not all of them are bad but alot of them are. Here’s an interesting one about a parish near me:

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/roamin/1103roam.htm

I don’t see anything else a new Pope could do outseide of declaring the worst Archbishops to be in HERESY and their Archdioceses to be in SCHISM and then sending NEW, replacement Archbishops to replace ALL of the ones he states to be in HERESY & SCHISM so that Parishes who are trying to be Catholic will be able to do so with ADAQUATE EPISCOPAL OVERSIGHT!

Are you ready for the TUMULT & UPROAR which must result from this?! Are you ready to watch as families and parishes divide over which Bishop to side with?! Are you ready to decide yourself and to defend your choice? Are you then readuy to have the heretical schismatic Bishop SUE you and the orthodox, Catholic believing congregation out of your parish and your homes?!

If you are, then God will give you a Pope who will do the things needed to bring the American Church back into the fullness of the Faith and into a Catholic Church that’s ready for the persecution that is to come.

If not, then I can only promise you more of what you’ve been complaining about…

Blessings and Peace, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

JKirkLVNV,

You would most definitely be right if the deceased were a homosexual who struggled with his sexuality and tried to follow the Church’s teaching but just couldn’t seem to do it. I think that person should receive a Church Mass and whatever else the Church could offer to him and his family.

JKirkLVNV:

I wondered the same. AND I’m just asking this, so please don’t anyone flame me: If his Ex. had just allowed the funeral in the first place, would it of necessity have given scandal or couldn’t it have been seen as the Church’s final mercy and solicitude toward a wretched sinner, which we all are? I mean, it seems it would have been a chance to speak to his assembled friends about Our Lord. I dunno. AND you can bet your sweet bippy that any Kennedy starting on the dirt nap will get a fair old send off, with incense included.

But, in this case, the deceased ENCOURAGED & FACILITATED Immorality in the businesses that he owned. We have no sign that he tried to follow church teaching in this area. Unless he had given up his business before he died, I’d be hard pressed to give him a Funeral Mass. I tend to put him on par with the Kennedys who have defended “Abortion Rights” Tooth and Nail in the House, Senate and elsewhere.

And, I don’t like the fact that the Kennedy’s, who have publicly and vehemently opposed Church teaching on Abortion will be getting the full offices of the Church that would rightly deny the same to any unrepentant Abortion Provider.

There’s something wrong there, and it has to do with money and power. and, I think you are well within bounds to point it out.

Blessings and Peace, Michael

 

[tuopaolo]

I don’t think unrepentant homosexuals or unrepentant suicides or unrepentant promoters of homosexuality or unrepentant abortionists etc. should be given funerals.

But, maybe the Bishop here was given new information. Perhaps, there were signs of repentance before his death and upon learning of these signs the Bishop changed his mind and expressed regret about the man’s unjust condemnation.

Scandal doesn’t mean controversy. It means causing others to sin or lose their moral vision. By giving funerals to unrepentant homosexuals or suicides or abortionists etc. it may lead people to think that these sins do not affect one’s eternal destiny or that they are OK. Thus it may lead to more abortions and sucides and homosexual depravity, etc.

 

[Socrates]

tuopaolo:

I don’t think unrepentant homosexuals or unrepentant suicides or unrepentant promoters of homosexuality or unrepentant abortionists etc. should be given funerals.

But, maybe the Bishop here was given new information. Perhaps, there were signs of repentance before his death and upon learning of these signs the Bishop changed his mind and expressed regret about the man’s unjust condemnation.

Scandal doesn’t mean controversy. It means causing others to sin or lose their moral vision. By giving funerals to unrepentant homosexuals or suicides or abortionists etc. it may lead people to think that these sins do not affect one’s eternal destiny or that they are OK. Thus it may lead to more abortions and sucides and homosexual depravity, etc.

Well said. If you read the articles you can see it happening. Some are already spinning this as if it officially legitimized homosexuality.

I wonder who much harassment by militant gays was involved in the decision to apologize. Bishops who address the immorality of homosexuality often receive all sorts of hate mail and death threats from the gay brownshirts. That seldom makes it into the newspapers though.

 

[stevendmo]

tuopaolo:

I don’t think unrepentant homosexuals or unrepentant suicides or unrepentant promoters of homosexuality or unrepentant abortionists etc. should be given funerals.

Why didn’t you include unrepentant heterosexuals who have had sex outside of marriage? Surely that is considered a mortal sin in church law. And before you reply with, “But homosexuality is disordered,” please recall that Christ never once mentioned homosexuals in the Gospels but did point out that it is adultery of the heart (a mortal sin, I suppose) if a man lusts after a woman.

My point here is not to condone any form of lust, gay or straight. But I find it curious that you would deny funerals to people who are gay and guilty of unrepented lust but not people who are straight and similarly guilty of unrepented lust.

I welcome your response/dialogue here. Thanks.

 

[fix]

stevendmo:

tuopaolo:

I don’t think unrepentant homosexuals or unrepentant suicides or unrepentant promoters of homosexuality or unrepentant abortionists etc. should be given funerals.

Why didn’t you include unrepentant heterosexuals who have had sex outside of marriage? Surely that is considered a mortal sin in church law. And before you reply with, “But homosexuality is disordered,” please recall that Christ never once mentioned homosexuals in the Gospels but did point out that it is adultery of the heart (a mortal sin, I suppose) if a man lusts after a woman.

My point here is not to condone any form of lust, gay or straight. But I find it curious that you would deny funerals to people who are gay and guilty of unrepented lust but not people who are straight and similarly guilty of unrepented lust.

I welcome your response/dialogue here. Thanks.

The point here is public manifest sinners are to be denied Catholic funerals as per canon law. It is not only about homosexuals, but that is the case in this situation.

Please do not claim that Christ never mentioned the word homosexual and that justifies it in some way. Catholics accept the entire bible and Sacred Tradition. Church teaching is clear and the teaching is not at odds with Christ.

 

[tuopaolo]

stevendmo:

Why didn’t you include unrepentant heterosexuals who have had sex outside of marriage? Surely that is considered a mortal sin in church law.

It’s considered a mortal sin but it’s not a matter of “church law” but of divine law and also, I believe, natural law. (The same is true of homosexuality) With that out of the way …

When you speak of “unrepentant heterosexuals who have had sex outside of marriage” the problem is I’m not sure concretely what you would be talking about. Do you mean like an adulterous affair? Well people repent of adulterous affairs. If you mean someone who abandon’s his wife and lives in a constant adulterous relationship with another woman, then theoretically the same thing would apply but unless he advertises his adultery we wouldn’t know whether he is living as “brother and sister” or not. But in the case of someone like a homosexual activist – just as a hypothetical example – he would be advertising his sin and so we would know about it. The same for someone who conducted an immoral business.

And before you reply with, “But homosexuality is disordered,” please recall that Christ never once mentioned homosexuals in the Gospels but did point out that it is adultery of the heart (a mortal sin, I suppose) if a man lusts after a woman.

That’s probably because there were no homosexuals in the crowds that he preached to, at least the ones that are spoken about in the gospels. But actually he does allude to the sin of homosexuality. For instance in Luke 17:

Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot–they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all-- 30so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

I welcome your response/dialogue here. Thanks.

I welcome dialogue also. Thanks.