SanctusPeccator;9402224:
Qualifying statements is still not answering though. Since when is the Magisterium expected to elucidate the Deposit of Faith according the the personal timetable of a select minority of the faithful?
Look at the Code of Canon Law. Qualifying statements everywhere. It’s all about clarity and being as succinct and concise as possible. These are good things.
And what specific quotations from the
Code of Canon Law allow the faithful to publicly withhold external assent from the authoritative pronouncements of an ecumencial council?
My friend, you and I aren’t theologians. Thank God! Let’s leave the finer and foggier points for them to wade through. Nevertheless, we ought to at least know the basics of our Faith, and many of us may even be interested in more than just “basics”. If you don’t see any problems between certain revelations in the documents of VII and everything that came before, then count your lucky stars. For those who do, contradictions will look like…contradictions until the competent authority elucidates them. If there are contradictions they need to be fixed. Why? Because, as I’ve said about 230492304958 times, ON THE FACE OF IT, certain statements of VII CONTRADICT what came before. Do you see the problem? Do you believe it should be clarified or explained, or are you one of those persons who mistakenly places obedience above faith? This is a serious question, so please don’t take it as an insult.
Apparent contradictions are not necessarily
actual contradictions. Throughout the course of ecclesiastical history, reverential obedience in conjunction with prayerful study has often successfully resolved any
supposed contradictions by painstakingly situating the controversy within its proper historical and theological context.
SanctusPeccator;9402224:
We are called to be primarily concerned with our own salvation instead of needlessly fretting over the the generic salvation of others.
I am primarily concerned with my own salvation, and that of my wife and children, however, the salvation of souls is the supreme law of the Church, and I try my best to assist as I may. How do you propose instructing the ignorant without yourself knowing what the Faith teaches? How do you answer the questions of astute protestants and others who say that VII contradicts what came before?
All reasonable observations, but experience wisely proves we must first follow the spiritual aphorism attributed to Saint Francis of Assisi: “Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words.”
SanctusPeccator;9402224:
Seems your replies on this topic have indicated an apparent pattern of insisting the Magisterium correct the perceived
errors since the conclusion of Vatican II? As the Magisterium operates according to the spiritual dictates of the Paraclete, why should the faithful even consider they would be inspired as to what is the “best interest” of the Church Militant?
Perceived…Heh. If you don’t perceive any contradictions, then God bless you! Truly! Perhaps your faith AND your obedience are greater than mine. In that case, please pray for me. As far as the Paraclete…I wasn’t aware that His guarantees were invoked at the Council, but then again…I’m no theologian, and I wasn’t there.
“If they believed firmly with other Catholics that the Ecumenical Council is governed by the Holy Spirit, that it is solely by the impulse of this divine Spirit that the Council defines and proposes what must be believed, it would never have occurred to them that matters which have not been revealed or which could be harmful to the Church could be defined in its sessions and imposed upon their faith; and they would never have imagined that human maneuvers could arrest the power of the Holy Spirit and impede the definition of revealed truths or truths helpful to the Church” (Blessed Pope Pius IX’s Letter [of 12 March 1870] to the Abbot of Solesmes Dom Prosper Guéranger
Dolendum profecto).
SanctusPeccator;9402224:
Curious as to why you would believe yourself personally responsible for the souls of your diocese in the first place?
I never have. I was making a point using an example. The supreme law of the church is the salvation of souls. My bishop will be judged on many things that I will not be judged on. I have 4 other souls directly under my care. He has tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands). If he is deficient in his duties toward the supreme law of the Church…I guess he’ll hear about it at his particular judgement.
As it ought to be.
SanctusPeccator;9402224:
Your response fails to grasp the central point of contention: the faithful are not entrusted to authoritatively question the timing of when the Magisterium acts upon her divine mission to elucidate the Deposit of Faith.
Oh, now it’s all about questioning the timing!?!? Hmmm, things keep changing in this thread!
As far as timing goes, it’s already too late! They should have started clarifications as soon as they realized there was a problem with the “new springtime”.
Official clarifications were
already copiously promulgated during the pontificate of Pope Paul VI (
Mysterium Fidei,
Humanae vitae,
Mysterium Filii Dei,
Mysterium Ecclesiae,
Persona humana,
Inter insigniores, etc.). Magisterial pronouncements do little good when they go largely unheeded by the majority of the faithful (let alone individual members of the hierarchy).
The main point was whether one must give full consent to things that, by all appearances are, first of all, non-binding documents, and secondly, contradictions compared with the rest of the deposit of faith.
Listen, I’m more than willing to change my opinions. I have had to many times over the years. I love learning about the faith, even if it’s not my line so to speak. So far, however, I don’t see a problem in withholding full consent from teachings that are…(you guessed it) on their face, contrary to previous teachings. If you think this is unimportant then…(you guessed it again), God bless you.
Hardly unimportant, but is withholding external consent from the non-infallible teachings [of the Ordinary Authentic Magisterium] the sanctified response to these crises afflicting Holy Mother Church? Should your loved ones withhold “full consent” from your authority if they personally believe your fatherhood is “on their face, contrary to previous teachings” within your immediate family?
Already done (for what it’s worth)
