V
vames
Guest
St Francis:
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15573
St Francis:
St Francis:
Jesus N Cherie:
Jesus N Cherie:
Jesus N Cherie:
Still, putting aside this rhetoric, what is the moral?
I understand this as follows: if you are a raped little girl and the pregnancy is harming you, don’t complain that you’re in pain (anyway, it’s not pain, but only your illusion or someone else’s lie, as St. Francis graciously suggested) and don’t ask for nothing that can endanger the unborn children; they are a blessing from God and they come first, not you. Regardless if your mother sees that the pregnancy is harming you, she has to tell you to shut up and endure, because the unborn children are precious and defenceless, not you. If the doctors tell the mother that the pregnancy threatens your life, then they lie 100%, without the slightest doubt, so don’t believe them. They don’t want to help or save you, but to kill your mother’s grandchildren. And if you can’t carry to term and your life is really endangered, despite all their efforts to make you stay pregnant as long as they can, then your mother and you must believe that a cesarean can be less dangerous and less invasive for your body than an abortion. In fact you may not believe this, but you should submit to it anyway, because what counts here is not your health, but the physical integrity of the unborn children, even if they can’t survive outside your body.
You say that nothing good can be accomplished through evil. I can’t see how it is **not **evil to prolong the abuse of rape by forcing this girl to stay pregnant and cutting her when she can’t carry it anymore. Of course, we can ignore or deny every news story and pretend she was perfectly fit to carry a pregnancy and even happy to do this. But what if these stories were true? I for one couldn’t look into this girl’s eyes and tell her to be happy to suffer “for a good cause”.
I used “indirect abortion” as in this story:
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15573
St Francis:
Pain is pain and to deny **even **this is plain cruel. At least say it directly: nobody should care if a raped child cries of pain because she has a painful twin pregnancy! And then add something like this: so many women (= **adult **women) experience pain when they are pregnant and endure it heroically! Of course they endure it, because they choose to do so and can cope with such things better than little girls.
St Francis:
I don’t remember any statement where it says that the girl, her mother or any doctor was enthusiastic at the thought of slicing open the girl’s body. Or maybe the notoriously biased press has censored it. “Rape? if this produces babies, then it’s ok for me! Having a painful pregnancy as a result? even better! Having my body cut open so as the babies of my rapist can live or at least be extracted and die intact? great, I can hardly wait!”
Jesus N Cherie:
I heard about someone who became incontinent in such circumstances. But she was over 23 years old; someone at 23 or 32 is an adult. Why would someone consider that to accept the risk of future incontinence is as “normal” for a little girl with a forced pregnancy as it is for an adult woman?
Jesus N Cherie:
That’s right. She was 14, she was not raped and she was engaged to St. Joseph. By contrast, a nine years old girl isn’t mature enough to be engaged, to have consensual sex, to start a family and be prepared to sacrifice her health for her children; otherwise, this would be the social norm everywhere - that girls should become wives (or be raped, for that matter) and have children immediately after their menarches.
Jesus N Cherie:
I came here asking what is the deep Catholic moral of this story. And you all keep saying that either the doctors were lying, or the press was lying, or the statistics are negligible, or that it’s perfectly normal for a child to give birth, or that it doesn’t matter if this particular girl was raped and that she can’t choose what should happen to her body, or that the c-section would be a treatment, or even that she must die as a martyr (see some previous pages). And if someone questions the fairness of denying this girl the easiest way to escape from this nightmare (I mean the abortion), then it’s something suspect - it must be either heresy or a secret wish to use this case as an example, a precedent to justify abortion in any case.
Still, putting aside this rhetoric, what is the moral?
I understand this as follows: if you are a raped little girl and the pregnancy is harming you, don’t complain that you’re in pain (anyway, it’s not pain, but only your illusion or someone else’s lie, as St. Francis graciously suggested) and don’t ask for nothing that can endanger the unborn children; they are a blessing from God and they come first, not you. Regardless if your mother sees that the pregnancy is harming you, she has to tell you to shut up and endure, because the unborn children are precious and defenceless, not you. If the doctors tell the mother that the pregnancy threatens your life, then they lie 100%, without the slightest doubt, so don’t believe them. They don’t want to help or save you, but to kill your mother’s grandchildren. And if you can’t carry to term and your life is really endangered, despite all their efforts to make you stay pregnant as long as they can, then your mother and you must believe that a cesarean can be less dangerous and less invasive for your body than an abortion. In fact you may not believe this, but you should submit to it anyway, because what counts here is not your health, but the physical integrity of the unborn children, even if they can’t survive outside your body.
You say that nothing good can be accomplished through evil. I can’t see how it is **not **evil to prolong the abuse of rape by forcing this girl to stay pregnant and cutting her when she can’t carry it anymore. Of course, we can ignore or deny every news story and pretend she was perfectly fit to carry a pregnancy and even happy to do this. But what if these stories were true? I for one couldn’t look into this girl’s eyes and tell her to be happy to suffer “for a good cause”.
