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aicirt
Guest
The six year old Peruvian girl gave birth by C-section to a son in 1929. She began having a period at age six months…believe it or not.
The man was never arrested. At first, the authorities thought it was her father but it wasn’t.
The man was never arrested. At first, the authorities thought it was her father but it wasn’t.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
How were the actions of the doctors and grandmother merciful to the twin babies who were aborted??? You seem to disregard that these two babies had a right to life as equal to their mother, grandmother or doctors. Yet no one was threatening them with murder.
The girl could easily have been placed in the hospital on bed rest (as was I for 2 months of one of my pregnancies).
The babies could have grown much closer to a healthy gestation time, and then the babies could have been born by cesarean section.
You are much too quick to condemn these children to death.
the girls life was not in danger. Abortion was horrendous.
The bishops statement was right on target. The stepfather did NOT murder anyone. The doctors did…at the request of the grandmother’s money.
And the bishop certainly was against what the stepfather did!!! But rape and murder are not equally offensive. Murder is worse.
And the bishop and Church have certainly been compassionate and loving to the little girl. You are just offended because we have also been compassionate and loving and vocal to and about the two babies who were horrendously murdered.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
The fact of the matter is that the spirit of antichrist is alive and doing fine. And he does this by murdering innocents, and doing all he can to persecute those who truly love Jesus.
You were absolutely right. Jesus talks about you, in particular, in the beatitudes: “Blessed are you when they hate you and say all sorts of horrible things about you in my name”.
That is not a direct translation…but it is exactly what happened to you. Jesus was smiling upon you, and you have made His Mother happy also. Most of us do not take the time or energy (if we have the courage) to fight the evil of this world.
You did good. Thank you.
C
Cinette
Guest
To those who believe that Abortion is a bad thing but not in certain circumstances!
It is the same thing as saying that murder is a bad thing but not in certain circumstances.
What happened to that young girl was terrible and the Stepfather should be jailed for a long and made an example to others.
To kill those babies - the girl was 4 month’s pregnant - was definitely not the answer.
We cannot compromise the truth. We cannot compromise our Faith.
Nobody said that this was an easy case.
I invite all those who say that it was a good thing to do to abort those twins to go to YouTube and look at the video “The Silent Scream”. They will se an abortion take place, they will see the baby removed limb by limb.
Then tell me that you still think it was the right thing to do.
Cinette
It is the same thing as saying that murder is a bad thing but not in certain circumstances.
What happened to that young girl was terrible and the Stepfather should be jailed for a long and made an example to others.
To kill those babies - the girl was 4 month’s pregnant - was definitely not the answer.
We cannot compromise the truth. We cannot compromise our Faith.
Nobody said that this was an easy case.
I invite all those who say that it was a good thing to do to abort those twins to go to YouTube and look at the video “The Silent Scream”. They will se an abortion take place, they will see the baby removed limb by limb.
Then tell me that you still think it was the right thing to do.
Cinette
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radias16
Guest
Can i tell you where the big problem lies? Some will not agree with me but it is the truth.
The main problem with the church is that it does not explain anything…
Look at the bishop when he excommunicated the people involved… he seemed so cold and did not explain the reasons why it was wrong to carry out an abortion… if he had said half the thiong i have read on this thread then there would not have been so much of a public outcry…
Alot of people in here are Catholics who know alot more about the religion than any other Catholic let alone atheists or members of other religions…
So if it takes so many pages for you guys to agree on 1 issue imagine what it is like for those who do not really understand the religion… imagine those who just based there opinion of Catholics on this one bishop…
The religion has to be explained alot better in my opinion… that is the reason why alot of young people are goind astray from the religion… you go into mass and all these passages are read and they are usuallly not explained… for the young people who go there for the first tike they just sit there with blank expressions…
i know that there are going to be people now who disagree and who say young people should ask questions if they want to know… well the faith is not going out of there way t make it easier for people and in my opinion that is what they should be doing…
The main problem with the church is that it does not explain anything…
Look at the bishop when he excommunicated the people involved… he seemed so cold and did not explain the reasons why it was wrong to carry out an abortion… if he had said half the thiong i have read on this thread then there would not have been so much of a public outcry…
Alot of people in here are Catholics who know alot more about the religion than any other Catholic let alone atheists or members of other religions…
So if it takes so many pages for you guys to agree on 1 issue imagine what it is like for those who do not really understand the religion… imagine those who just based there opinion of Catholics on this one bishop…
The religion has to be explained alot better in my opinion… that is the reason why alot of young people are goind astray from the religion… you go into mass and all these passages are read and they are usuallly not explained… for the young people who go there for the first tike they just sit there with blank expressions…
i know that there are going to be people now who disagree and who say young people should ask questions if they want to know… well the faith is not going out of there way t make it easier for people and in my opinion that is what they should be doing…
S
St_Francis
Guest
If he had done that, he would have been criticized for increasing the family’s pain.
Other than that, I agree that the Church should do more teaching, but the Church is soooo big, it is very hard to assure that this is done properly.
It is tricky, because people do have a responsibility to look into these issues on their own; it’s not like the Church is *hiding *the information. And it is primarily the *parents’ *responsibility to teach their children.
Seems like a lot of people could be doing more. A lot of times it’s like what Archishop Fulton Sheen said to a young man who came to him with all his reasons for leaving the Church: Who’s the girl?
S
St_Francis
Guest
Here is the statement of the bishops of Recinde and Olinda in Portuguese regarding the statement of the bishop in Osservatore.
Here is the English version, you may have to scroll down a bit.
Here is the English version, you may have to scroll down a bit.
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Cinette
Guest
Bravo! You have made an excellent point and I commend you.
Many of us leave the Church and some return some don’t. After an absence of 27 years I returned to the Church and discovered that I actually knew very little about my Faith. I have learned that the Catholic Church is the most exciting thing. I now read as much as I can, watch EWTN and come on Catholic Answers where there is a lot to learn.
A Priest told us that at the turn of the Century there was a conference in Rome with the title “Missionaries of the 21st Century are the Laity”. That is so true. Since the Second Vatican Council the laity has got involved as never before, playing a most important role in the Church. Also look at the large number of prominent Protestants who have converted and contributed richly with their talents. There has been a stream of them. Look at John Henry Newman and his contribution. In the United States there have been a whole bunch of them and what is so stirring is the sacrifices they make, sacrificing family and friends who turn their backs on them for converting. We are richly blessed with the calibre of Catholics we have in the Church - such wonderful role models.
I have visited Brazil and my husband has family there and I know how very secular they are - the spirit of Carnaval is always with them. Oh there is also much good but there is a lot of moral decay also. In fact the whole world is in danger of great moral decay.
So my friend I understand you very well. It is up to us to sow seeds of Faith. I believe if we love our Faith and learn about our Faith so that we can effectively defend it, then we can see changes.
I laugh now but my husband and I used to be the revolutionary type and had a lot of criticism about the Church and today we have become orthodox in our Faith. One cannot compromise in matters of Faith.
Thank you for your comments radias - you made me think about this!
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fix
Guest
I am going to offer an opposing view. Is it possible that we are a relativistic, self centered society? Do we as Catholics really practice the faith as we should? Is our first thought in a circumstance like this to say I accept let me find a way to understand better? Let me see why the Church teaches as they do?
Or is our first thought those mean old men. How dare they persecute that poor little girl? They are so out of touch.
Church leaders can certainly do more in communication, as we all can. But, in reading just this one thread with detailed explantions we still see rejection of what was done.
My point is more explanation is fine, but I think that will not help that much. The answer is a greater conversion in all our hearts. All the explanations on earth will not help if we are set on rejecting just authority. IOW, explanations only help if our hearts are open to what is true.
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o_mlly
Guest
The Church excommunicates not as punitive but rather medicinal and does so out of charity.
Peace,
O’Malley
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Mike700
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Cinette
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We can never be fully satisfied in this life. We thirst for the Lord always.
Cinette
Conversion is something which is ongoing as we grow in the Faith. Our spiritual lives is a constant renewal - prayer and growth. This is a journey of Faith which only ends when we reach our final destination. Didn’t St Augustine say “Our hearts were made for you O Lord and will not rest until they rest in you.”
We can never be fully satisfied in this life. We thirst for the Lord always.
Cinette
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St_Francis
Guest
We have been discussing Archbishop Rino Fisichella’s statement as well over the past few pages of this thread.
Here is the statement of the bishops of Recinde and Olinda in Portuguese regarding the statement of the bishop in Osservatore.
Here is the English version, you may have to scroll down a bit.
T
tuviskazinai
Guest
Thanks so much for posting this…this is very, very thought-provoking. How wonderful to hear of the efforts of the family’s parish priest, the timeline of the events leading up to the excommunication (which seems to have been a last resort), and the charitable, but firm, response of the bishops to Archbishop Fisichella…
Very interesting, indeed.
I agree so strongly with Radias16 that the Church needs better PR – good apologists who are in the public eye. We may be getting there – the Church started its own Youtube channel, for instance – and as for myself, I think that those on the front lines of the battle are campus ministers and student Catholic groups, since that’s where tomorrow’s generation is. One of the things that bothers me – and it’s related to the PR thing – is the fact that the Church has absolutely no strategy for reaching young people apart from hoping they’ll have the dedication to go to Church despite the fact that they look around themselves and see that church attendance nationwide is falling. But anyway, that’s another topic.
I just remember when my dad stopped going to Church and refused to talk about it…finally one day I got him to tell me his reasons why. “Because I just don’t think it’s true that the pope can do nothing wrong – that’s silly! And the idea that the Church decides who goes to Heaven? What chance do I have to become a saint, no one’s ever even heard of me!” And I had to explain to him that papal infallibility and the sanctification process didn’t mean at all what he thought they did! There is such a lack of catechesis out there, and nowadays the problem is compounded by the fact that people think in terms of news stories with readily identifiable good guys (usually Democrats) and bad guys (Republicans and the religious right); and for skeptical modern audiences, when the Pope says condoms are bad and the bishop in Brazil “excommunicates” this woman, there’s only a preciously short window of time in which Catholics could rush in and explain what the deal is before people make up their minds and put it down as one more reason to hate the Church.
Even among Catholics, we have a problem. In my experience, priests in their Sunday homilies do a great job explicating the Bible readings and hammering in the things we all already know – that Jesus died for us, etc etc. – but they avoid “controversial issues” or current events, never address the Church’s public image…I mean, have any of you heard your priests talking about this Brazilian abortion issue at Mass? Perhaps you have, but I have not. And if not, then where are we supposed to go to hear the Church defending itself, calmly and rationally? The media is certainly not going to do it for us…
Anyway, just some scattered thoughts…maybe I will start a new thread.
Peace,
+AMDG+
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
On many other threads you will hear an outcry for the flock and people ouside of the Church to be much better and more catechized about Catholicism.
Many of us are heartbroden because we are not told the Truth from the pulpit.
What it comes down to in this argument is simply this: The people involved performed murder on two unborn babies…an excommunicatable offense. Period.
There comes a time in the lives of parents and their children when the children have to immediately obey without even understanding why. Such as when they are in the street and do not realize that a car is speeding their way. They need to just obey the call of the parents to get out of the street…without a long conversation about why the parent wants them out of the street. Their very lives are in danger.
Well, the souls of these people were in grave danger also.
What the bishop did is absolutely correct. And I hope that many more will take his lead and do the same.
The world needs to be catechized.
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fix
Guest
Did Augustine not also say something like…I accept first and try to understand second? My point is we all need to be more docile and open to Church teaching rather than seeking to cultivate obstinate doubt and reasons to disgaree.Cinette
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fix
Guest
Many thanks for the info.
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Corki
Guest
Exactly! I used the word ‘penalty’ because that is the word used in the Code of Canon Law. But it is rehabilitative in its intent, not seeking to cut off but to call back.
S
St_Francis
Guest
I do wish you would–I have enjoyed reading yours and others’ comments…Anyway, just some scattered thoughts…maybe I will start a new thread.
Peace,
+AMDG+
PS Tell us where it is!
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