T
thequeen
Guest
Thank you for that information Father.
- Status
B
billy15
Guest
Yes, of course, Father; once a priest always a priest, just as Fr. Boff is. In my post, I was simply referring to the practice of the Church as the Cathechism describes:
I do know of a priest at a neighboring parish who left their ministries at the parish, got married, and then returned to ministry at that same parish after the marriage ended, as well as a few other priests who left their ministries at the parish they had served to marry and never returned.
I’m genuinely curious though, how often is the petition to marry granted to those priests who request it, as the Catechism says these men can no longer marry?
T
twf
Guest
Exactly. As Father says married priests currently function in the Church. I have had the privilege of confessing to a married Ordinariate priest more than once, and as a married man confessing issues pertaining to marriage it was a blessing.
T
twf
Guest
Religious take a vow of poverty. By definition religious cannot be married. This cannot change. Priests do not take a vow of poverty, unless they are also religious (two separate vocations). Religious priests will always be celibate.
G
gilliam
Guest
Celibacy is a discipline not a dogma, it can change. We do have married priests in the Roman Catholic Church. For more information see:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1014061
Also note that not all religious are priests. Lay religious are often married.
T
twf
Guest
Yes, I realize that. I spoke of married priests in posts 3 and 23. I have had various encounters with married Catholic priests.
I was speaking of professed religious. Professed religious are celibate by definition. Or more broadly, consecrated persons are celibate by definition (religious sisters / brothers, religious priests, consecrated virgins, hermits, etc.).
G
GEddie
Guest
Even though married Catholic priests have existed for many years, the suspension of priestly celibacy in an entire country would be a major sea change, and one should not pretend that it is not.
I’d imagine that celibacy as a general discipline would vanish within a generation. Which would look from outside the Church as a “surrender to sex.”
Good luck teaching youth about chastity after that.
And the abandonment of parishes would not slow, but accelerate, as many would not have the means to support a priestly family.
ICXC NIKA
I’d imagine that celibacy as a general discipline would vanish within a generation. Which would look from outside the Church as a “surrender to sex.”
Good luck teaching youth about chastity after that.
And the abandonment of parishes would not slow, but accelerate, as many would not have the means to support a priestly family.
ICXC NIKA
G
gilliam
Guest
Chastity is not celibacy and linking the two does a disservice to both.
Showing the example to youth of a loving, faithful married couple isn’t a ‘surrender to sex.’
T
twf
Guest
I disagree. Religious life would still exist as a separate vocation. Even if most secular priests were married, you’ll always have monastic and other religious priests. This is how it is in the Eastern Christian world…
G
gilliam
Guest
T
twf
Guest
I have mixed feelings about allowing men who left ministry for marriage to return to ministry…but ordaining existing, serving married deacons to the priesthood would be a completely different story. That was the original “rumor” some time ago. Its hard to argue ideals when so many are without regular access to a priest. You read about villages where a priest travels through only a few times a year…Yes, there is not likely to be married monks
Then again, you may see other religious organizations that are currently lay orders have married priests. But I think we are getting way ahead of the curve here. We don’t even know if this rumor about Brazil will occur or not.
R
ringil
Guest
No, but they don’t take a vow of poverty.
O
OraLabora
Guest
Not all. Benedictines, it may surprise some, do not take a vow of poverty. They make three specific vows: stability, obedience, and conversion of morals.
By obedience, they are obedient to an abbot and a rule. The Rule states that they may not, as individuals, own any property except for some small gifts that the abbot may allow them to keep.
But collectively, Benedictines can be, and often are, very wealthy indeed. The abbey I’m affiliated with was established on a beautiful lakefront property in 1912 when such things could be bought for a song.
It is now evaluated at $20 million, for the property alone, not including thriving cheese and cider factories. They number approximately 30 at the moment, so all told each monk is probably worth over $1m. However that is held collectively, not privately. So they are not poor. Materially, they have what they need, and financially, they have security. More than I do probably.
By the same token they do not take vows of chastity nor celibacy. But their vow of obedience binds them to chastity and celibacy because the Rule mandates it.
P
Pulvis
Guest
The thing i find most troubling, other than Boff himself, is that in a predominantly Catholic country, vocatios are so poor. Just as here in the US, more needs to be done to increase vocations.
T
twf
Guest
“Just as here in the US”. There’s no comparison. The USA has a massive, rich, beautiful abundance of priests compared to Brazil and many other Latin American countries.
Brazil’s Catholic population has sharply declined. The Evangelical / Pentecostal population is HUGE and growing. And they can place pastors on every street corner while the Catholic faithful may never get face to face time with a priest.
J
josh987654321
Guest
Okay, so we have a priest, who obviously will not be using contraception, may have 5 or 6 kids, maybe even 8, will be expected to support that family based from Church donations, will probably have to get another full time job (So forget about on call for the Church when they are also on call for work), and yet will be expected to also be a priest which is basically a full time job, cut between the time devoted to his family and the Churches mission and work, let alone guide and counsel others when he already has 8 kids and a tone of other responsibilities he has to look after first.
What could possibly go wrong.
What could possibly go wrong.
J
josh987654321
Guest
P
Pulvis
Guest
I beg to disagree. There are numerous parishes that have been closed due to a lack of vocations across the US. And the protestant draw has affected the Church in the US as well. Now i do agree that the situation in Brazil is somewhat different than here, but I still wonder what happened to vocations.
T
twf
Guest
As noted several times in this thread, there are already married priests with kids who are faithfully and wonderfully serving the Church. Hundreds of them. I know of one who has 7 kids.Okay, so we have a priest, who obviously will not be using contraception, may have 5 or 6 kids, maybe even 8, will be expected to support that family based from Church donations, will probably have to get another full time job (So forget about on call for the Church when they are also on call for work), and yet will be expected to also be a priest which is basically a full time job, cut between the time devoted to his family and the Churches mission and work, let alone guide and counsel others when he already has 8 kids and a tone of other responsibilities he has to look after first.
What could possibly go wrong.
T
twf
Guest
I’m not denying that there is a shortage in the US that has impacted the faithful. I am just saying there is no comparison. RELATIVE to Brazil, the US has a fortune of priests that would make Latin American faithful green with envy. Here’s an example (two dioceses taken at random)…
Diocese of Cleveland in the US has 1626 Catholics per one priest.
Diocese of Campo Limpo in Brazil has 14,527 Catholics per one priest.
**No comparison. ** Its like someone who makes a North American minimum wage telling a starving family in, say, Chad “I know you’re poor, but hey I struggle to make ends meet too!”
- Status