Bread and Wine vs. Wafer

[Fr_Ambrose]

That depends which Orthodox Church you attend. I came across a website last year which said “Everyone is invited to kiss the cross at the end of the liturgy. It is the Orthodox Tradition that the “antidoron” (bread which was blessed at the liturgy, and is given out after the final blessing) should only be taken by Orthodox Christians.”

This happens in very very few parishes. It does happen in the 15 or so monasteries of the Greek Archdiocese in America which follow Athonite customs.

The reasoning is that the anti~doron (in place of the gifts) is given only to those who are entitled to the gifts (Communion) but for some reason did not commune that day.

Personally I feel that if a priest is going to be so strict then, to be consistent, he should ensure that the non-Orthodox in the Church are all locked out at the Dismissal of the Catechumens before the Anaphora (Liturgy of the Eucharist) commences.

 

[LilyM]

It used to be part of the Latin liturgical tradition. Perhaps the custom has died out after Vatican II?

Baskets of petit pain or pain beni used to be distributed after Mass in France and other countries.

Does this not happen any more?

If so then it must be and have been quite localised. I’ve been to Masses all over Europe and never seen anything of the sort.

 

[rowlands]

basque.unr.edu/09/9.3/9.3.20t/9.3.20.05.bread.htm

Until the twentieth century and in some cases until the Second World War, blessed bread was distributed after Mass on Sunday in many different parts of rural France. The practice may also have been widespread in the Spanish Basque Country, but this can be determined only by further field research.

The ritual distribution of blessed bread was not confined to Catholic France and the Basque provinces. In the early part of the twentieth century, blessed bread was given to pilgrims during their annual procession to the shrine of St. Besse in the Italian Alps (cf. Hertz, Mélanges de sociologie religieuse et folklore, 1928).

In many Souletine communities, blessed bread was distributed among the congregation after High Mass until the Second World War and, in some cases, until the late 1960s. In Mauleon, one priest continues to give the blessed bread of Easter to his parishioners.

In Sainte-Engrâce, the blessed bread ritual was abolished by the local priest in 1962; but neither the sociological nor the ideological importance of the ritual has been lost. The people often talk about the ritual among themselves and lament the loss of what they regard as their “most beautiful custom.”

Various other sources confirm this, including some on-line Catholic encyclopedias. The subject has also appeared in art.

 

[rowlands]

Pascal Adophe Jean Dagnan-Bouveret: Le pain bénit. 1855, Musée d’Orsay

 

[Woodstock]

Personally I feel that if a priest is going to be so strict then, to be consistent, he should ensure that the non-Orthodox in the Church are all locked out at the Dismissal of the Catechumens before the Anaphora (Liturgy of the Eucharist) commences.

Father,
I believe that church kicks all nonbaptized/nonchrismated (in their communion) out to the narthex. I heard through an online friend that menstruating women also do not receive the Eucharist there.

 

[jimmy]

It used to be part of the Latin liturgical tradition. Perhaps the custom has died out after Vatican II?

Baskets of petit pain or pain beni used to be distributed after Mass in France and other countries.

Does this not happen any more?

I remember reading in St. Therese’s book that she was always excited for her father to come home from mass(I guess she didn’t go to mass every Sunday with her father?) with the blessed bread to give her. So I assumed they had it in France then.

 

[Ghosty]

It used to be part of the Latin liturgical tradition. Perhaps the custom has died out after Vatican II?

Baskets of petit pain or pain beni used to be distributed after Mass in France and other countries.

Does this not happen any more?

It doesn’t happen anywhere that I’ve been, in the U.S. or elsewhere, but perhaps it still is a custom in some places. I know that there’s no Liturgical place for its distribution, neither in the past nor now, but if it indeed occurred then I’m incorrect that it was never a custom in the Latin Church.

Peace and God bless!

 

[AJV]

It used to be part of the Latin liturgical tradition. Perhaps the custom has died out after Vatican II?

Baskets of petit pain or pain beni used to be distributed after Mass in France and other countries.

Does this not happen any more?

They distribute blessed bread after Mass at my parish every week, but it’s not exactly analogous to the pain beni or the antidorian, because it is blessed in honour of St. Anthony of Padua after the Mass. The ritual for that involves a prayer to St. Anthony, the Our Father and Glory be, and then a blessing.

I think I have one form of the blessing for bread after Parochial Mass form an old French Missal- I’ll check and see. I’m not sure whether I’m mixing it up with the bread of St. Blaise , but I think it was blessed during the Canon before the end “Per quem haec omnia…” A lot of French rituals however, provide a blessing that is the same as the Roman one that was formerly found in the Missal and Ritual.

 

[AJV]

It used to be part of the Latin liturgical tradition. Perhaps the custom has died out after Vatican II?

Baskets of petit pain or pain beni used to be distributed after Mass in France and other countries.

Does this not happen any more?

They distribute blessed bread after Mass at my parish every week, but it’s not exactly analogous to the pain beni or the antidoron, because it is blessed in honour of St. Anthony of Padua after the Mass. The ritual for that involves a prayer to St. Anthony, the Our Father and Glory be, and then a blessing.

I think I have one form of the blessing for bread after Parochial Mass from an old French Missal- I’ll check and see. I’m not sure whether I’m mixing it up with the bread of St. Blaise , but I think in some places it was blessed during the Canon before the end “Per quem haec omnia…”

A lot of French rituals (sometimes though “sextra Missam”) however, this one against sickness, which is also found in the pre-conciliar Roman Missal. They prescribe it to be said “ad altare in Missa Parochiali” …“contra febrem et alios morbos”

V. Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domini.
R. Qui fecit caelum et terram.
V. Dóminus vobiscum.
R. Et cum spíritu tuo.

Oremus. Domine, sancte Pater, omnipotens aeterne Deus, bene+dicere digneris hunc panem tua sancta spirituali benedictione: ut sit omnibus sumentibus salus mentis et corporis ;atque contra omnes morbos et universas inimicorum insidias tutamen. Per Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum Fílium tuum, panem vivum, qui de caelo descendit, et dat vitam et salutem mundo: et tecum vivit et regnat in unitate Spiritus Sancti Deus: per omnia saecula saeculorum. R. Amen.

V.Our help is in the name of the Lord
R. Who has made the heaven and the earth

V. The Lord be with you
R. And with your spirit

Let us pray. Lord, holy Father, almighty eternal God, bless this bread with your holy spiritual blessing: that it may be to all who partake of it health of mind and body, and a defense against diseases and every snare of the enemy, Through our Lord Jesus, Christ, your Son, the living Bread which came down from heaven and gives life and salvation to the world, and lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, world without end. R. Amen.

Some also provide this other prayer to be said either together, or independent of the former. It’s also found in the Roman Ritual (for Easter) but not in the Missal.

Domine Jesu Christe, panis Angelorum, panis vivus aeternae vitae, benedicere dignare panem istum, sicut benedixisti quinque panes in deserto: ut omnes ex eo gustantes, inde corporis et animae percipiant sanitatem. Qui vivis et regnas in saecula saeculorum. Amen

Lord Jesus Christ, bread of the Angels and Living Bread of eternal life, bless this bread as you blessed the five loaves in the desert, that all who taste it may receive health in body and soul. Who lives and reigns world without end. Amen

 

[Hesychios]

… And then being told you aren’t allowed to chew, only swallow…

Whoever told you that was wrong. I have no idea where it started, and you aren’t the only one who has heard it, but it was just as silly then as it is now.

Not so!

I was specifically taught NOT to clench my teeth on a Host when communiing in the Roman Catholic church, we all were told that many years ago.

We were told to stick out our tongue, that “pretty pink pillow” and then take the Body of Christ into our mouths and let it dissolve slowly as we prayed, then swallow. This is why we spent so much time on our knees afterward with our faces buried in our hands praying. I did it for years.

Although the actual words of Christ indicate that we should eat of His flesh, the sense is more like masticating, or actually chewing. That realization had been lost in the west (I guess) by the time I was growing up as the spirituality took on a life of it’s own apart from the Gospel account.

Michael

 

[Woodstock]

Not so!

It is so!

Whoever told you was wrong, too. I know I’ve seen it answered here before but the search doesn’t seem to be working right now so I’ll have to look later.

Ghosty:

As for the “no chewing” thing, that was just a recent pop-piety practice that was actually never part of Church teaching. Well meaning nuns typically spread the idea in the past century, and the practice of “swallowing only” has since been casually discouraged. It was folk piety and nothing more.

 

[Hesychios]

It is so!

Whoever told you was wrong, too. I know I’ve seen it answered here before but the search doesn’t seem to be working right now so I’ll have to look later.

I think we need to make a distinction here.

At the time a Roman Catholic is being told something “important” by a nun, priest or bishop, he is not in a position to reject it as silly. Especially when it is something as gravely important as receiving the Body of our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ. These people taught me my prayers, taught me how to confess and allowed me to make a first Holy Communion. If I had said “that’s silly” or “It’s wrong” I could have been turned out of the school for one thing. That was authority!

Now, my Protestant neighbors could have told me it was silly at the time (and probably would have), but my mother could have beaten me for disbelieving a nun! And I would have been sent to the rectory to make a confession straightaway.

The story I related to you actually happened in my life, correctly or not. When I accidently bit down on a Host, or even desired to, I believed I had sinned. Years later I learned differently.

I think that it would be interesting to check in the Traditionalist section to see if anyone remembers this, or still follows the old piety.

So when a Protestant tells you that they were told by someone the Holy Eucharist was not to be chewed, but swallowed, they are not just retelling an old Protestant myth (like guns in the basements and that sort of thing). The source of that info is something they might think they can trust on such a matter, practicing Roman Catholics.

Probably millions of them…for many decades, if not centuries.

Michael

 

[Woodstock]

I think we need to make a distinction here.**

I am sorry that I didn’t make myself clear enough to let you know I agreed with all you wrote. I do not believe it was silly to follow directions, but silly of whoever came up with the direction in the first place. I do not doubt that it was taught to you or anyone else, and apparently still is taught to others in some places based on the thread I’m remembering. I’m sorry that my words lead you to believe I doubted you.

 

[Woodstock]

The search is working again!

Can we chew the Eucharist?
Covering your face after communion
Breaking/Chewing the Eucharist

 

[Hesychios]

I’m sorry that my words lead you to believe I doubted you.

It’s OK, I am lately interested in the conflict between what has been taught and what is being revealed as actual official church teaching and practice.

Actually, I am somewhat amused by it

Michael

 

[MariaG]

It’s OK, I am lately interested in the conflict between what has been taught and what is being revealed as actual official church teaching and practice.

Actually, I am somewhat amused by it

Michael

Yes, there is a wide difference apparently.

I know in my walk to the Catholic Church from Protestant ones, I heard all sorts of things that I am sure that ex-Catholics were taught, but were quited simply, wrong.

As a current teacher of children for Religious Ed classes, this knowledge sits with me as a heavy burden.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

ghosty:

As for the “no chewing” thing, that was just a recent pop-piety practice that was actually never part of Church teaching. Well meaning nuns typically spread the idea in the past century, and the practice of “swallowing only” has since been casually discouraged. It was folk piety and nothing more.

So one “pop-piety practice” has been replaced by another and it is now the PC thing to chew on the hosts!!! Give it time and the whole thing will come full circle again.

If not chewing was “actually never part of Church teaching” are you saying that chewing is now official Church teaching?

 

[Ghosty]

So one “pop-piety practice” has been replaced by another and it is now the PC thing to chew on the hosts!!! Give it time and the whole thing will come full circle again.

If not chewing was “actually never part of Church teaching” are you saying that chewing is now official Church teaching?

It’s not that chewing is an official rule, it’s just the normal way to eat something. Letting bread dissolve in your mouth is not typical, and was never the “rule” that certain folks made it out to be.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

It’s not that chewing is an official rule, it’s just the normal way to eat something. Letting bread dissolve in your mouth is not typical, and was never the “rule” that certain folks made it out to be.

When you say “certain folks” you mean millions of bishops, priests and faithful for generations upon generations. It was also taught in seminaries. Like Hesychios wrote today, it is interesting to note how so much “new official teaching” is now ousting the old which is ridiculed and attributed to “certain folks.”

 

[MariaG]

When you say “certain folks” you mean millions of bishops, priests and faithful for generations upon generations. It was also taught in seminaries. Like Hesychios wrote today, it is interesting to note how so much “new official teaching” is now ousting the old which is ridiculed and attributed to “certain folks.”

Taught in seminaries? I sincerely doubt it. Most who talk about it talk about the nuns who taught them this. More than likely, it was well intentioned way for the nuns to try to get kids to pray for a certain period of time.

And IF taught in seminaries, is obviously would have fallen under a pious practice, and certainly not doctrine.