Break the Seal said Baton Rouge Court

[irishpatrick]

If the penitent is a child, they might not know the rules or remember them, even if they were taught. And we dont know or wont know if a child or all children will also tell their parents.

The priest may obey the seal, but reporting such an incident to authorities, the priest is not doing so In Persona Christi, hes just doing it as a human being who cares about the welfare and safety of another human being and isnt bound by legalism IMO.

Also, this wasnt a sin on the victims part, so he should report it. He isnt breaking the seal by exposing her sin, because she had not sinned. The police will investigate and take it further from there.

The seal of confession means the Priest cannot speak about anything said during the confession (under that same seal). Period. He just cannot do that–it is a sacred trust that cannot be broken.

 

[Atisor207]

If the penitent is a child, they might not know the rules or remember them, even if they were taught. And we dont know or wont know if a child or all children will also tell their parents.

The priest may obey the seal, but reporting such an incident to authorities, the priest is not doing so In Persona Christi, hes just doing it as a human being who cares about the welfare and safety of another human being and isnt bound by legalism IMO.

Also, this wasnt a sin on the victims part, so he should report it. He isnt breaking the seal by exposing her sin, because she had not sinned. The police will investigate and take it further from there.

I don’t see any benefit in a priest breaking his seal to tell the secular world what may or may not have been said during confession.

The child’s testimony should equal that of the Priest or more.

The child’s family testimony should suffice.

This is an attack on the seal. No other way to look at it.

The priest can’t break the seal. End of story.

The seal of confession won’t be broken. Christ won’t let it. It is part for our salvation.

 

[catybug]

If the seal can be broken in one case, then it can suddenly be broken in all cases.

What if a girl from a well known parish family has sex with her boyfriend? she may not go to confession because she’s afraid that it might be found out.

What if there is a husband that is cheating on his wife? What if he is really repentant, and plans on telling her, but is having trouble getting the courage/figuring out how? What if he is worried that by going to confession, it will come out before he gets a chance to tell her?

What if there is a porn addict who is really ashamed of their addiction? They wont go to confession now because their afraid that it might get out.

Souls are changed in confession. People who may have gone in not planning to fix thier actions can have their hearts changed in confession. Those who do plan to change but not know how may be able to find the grace and courage to do so. The Priest and the Church are in the business of saving souls.

 

[irishpatrick]

If the seal can be broken in one case, then it can suddenly be broken in all cases.

What if there is a husband that is cheating on his wife? What if he is really repentant, and plans on telling her, but is having trouble getting the courage/figuring out how? What if he is worried that by going to confession, it will come out before he gets a chance to tell her?

What if there is a porn addict who is really ashamed of their addiction? They wont go to confession now because their afraid that it might get out.

Souls are changed in confession. People who may have gone in not planning to fix thier actions can have their hearts changed in confession. Those who do plan to change but not know how may be able to find the grace and courage to do so. The Priest and the Church are in the business of saving souls.

Perfect–well said.

 

[irishpatrick]

I don’t see any benefit in a priest breaking his seal to tell the secular world what may or may not have been said during confession.

The child’s testimony should equal that of the Priest or more.

The child’s family testimony should suffice.

This is an attack on the seal. No other way to look at it.

The priest can’t break the seal. End of story.

The seal of confession won’t be broken. Christ won’t let it. It is part for our salvation.

Well said.

 

[catybug]

If the penitent is a child, they might not know the rules or remember them, even if they were taught. And we dont know or wont know if a child or all children will also tell their parents.

The priest may obey the seal, but reporting such an incident to authorities, the priest is not doing so In Persona Christi, hes just doing it as a human being who cares about the welfare and safety of another human being and isnt bound by legalism IMO.

Also, this wasnt a sin on the victims part, so he should report it. He isnt breaking the seal by exposing her sin, because she had not sinned. The police will investigate and take it further from there.

It doesn’t matter if what she said in the confession was sin or not. it was still in the confessional, and therefore under the seal. I get council from the priest in the confessional, and all the time, and have confessed things that I wasn’t sure were sins, and they weren’t. You could be taking about the weather, and the priest cant say anytihng after. The Priest still cant say anything that was said in the confession outside of the confession. He can’t even say whether or not someone went to confession.

 

[glendab]

I wonder how many Catholics who think that in the case cited the Priest should break the Seal, would actually go to Confession with a Priest who had been known to break the Seal? I mean really. If they broke it for one instance, why should they not break it for all compelling instances and would you go to a Confessor who blabbed about your sins outside the Confessional? Really?

Glenda

 

[Atisor207]

I wonder how many Catholics who think that in the case cited the Priest should break the Seal, would actually go to Confession with a Priest who had been known to break the Seal? I mean really. If they broke it for one instance, why should they not break it for all compelling instances and would you go to a Confessor who blabbed about your sins outside the Confessional? Really?

Glenda

There will never be Priest who had been known to break the Seal authorize to minister confession again.

Those who argue in favor of the court and call themselves Catholic, I suspect, haven’t even seen a confessional booth in a long time.

 

[maryjk]

I see your point, but at the same time if a person isnt willing to pay the consequences for their sin, does this suggest theyee not truly sorry? i am referring to the people who you allege have their hearts in the right place btw. If they did, they wouldn’t mind humiliation, which is a small price and penance to pay for the sin they committed no?

Also,** wouldn’t this also be a motivation for people not to commit crimes/sin or push them to try harder not to?**

Actually, I think it would be motivation to not go to Confession.

 

[ccmcmg]

I sometimes wonder which laws truly come first in cases like this, God’s laws or man’s?
It seems like Gods laws deal with the future and afterlife, while man’s laws are designed for the here and now. Since these crimes are on earth and happening here and now, it seems like man’s law is more applicable here. Besides, not enforcing mans laws here and now can also lead to damnation of eternal souls. Not only can the victims souls potentially be damaged further, but the increase of victims may continue to rise (more damaged souls), not to mention the offender keeps digging a deeper hole for himself spiritually as well.

For those who say people will be scared from going to Confession if the seal can be broken… If the person is only going to confess to be “let off the hook” without wanting to take any responsibility for their deeds or make reparation (sometimes this means jailtime and rehabilitation), then perhaps theyre not truly contrite to begin wit and their souls are still in danger?

God’s Laws are always above man’s laws. God’s Laws are for here, now, past, present, future and all eternity. We won’t need laws in the afterlife, will we? **Heaven’s **no! Any ‘laws’ that you speak of that could damage our eternal souls are then first God’s laws (wouldn’t you say “thou shalt not murder” is God’s law, before it was every man’s?).

We don’t go to Confession to be ‘let off the hook’ as you say. We go because it’s God’s command to us to do so. I’m not looking to get let off any hook, but to ask and receive God’s Forgiveness. I’m not trying to ‘get away with anything’. But no matter what sin I confess, I’m not obliged to tell it to anyone else. So it wouldn’t be getting off anyone else’s hook.

There will never be Priest who had been known to break the Seal authorize to minister confession again.

Those who argue in favor of the court and call themselves Catholic, I suspect, haven’t even seen a confessional booth in a long time.

Perhaps. But even those of us who partake regularly are less than perfect and worthless sinners.

 

[Hopey]

There will never be Priest who had been known to break the Seal authorize to minister confession again.

Those who argue in favor of the court and call themselves Catholic, I suspect, haven’t even seen a confessional booth in a long time.

I go to confession frequently and I agree with the decision. I agree that the young lady and any penitent should be able to speak of their confession and what was said. In the SP’s decision, they even said it should be found in the trial if what was heard was in confession, privileged, or outside which he would be subjected to mandatory reporting.

I believe she should be able to speak of her confession IF she wants to.

 

[Hopey]

"Therefore, we find the appellate court erred in dismissing
plaintiffs’ claims with prejudice as the question of duty/risk should be resolved by
the factfinder at trial, particularly herein where there exists material issues of fact
concerning whether the communications between the child and the priest were 7
confessions per se and whether the priest obtained knowledge outside the confessional that would trigger his duty to report. "

 

[MattofTexas]

So why didn’t the priest counsel the girl to report the abuse to her parents, police, another priest outside of a confessional, etc.? It seems to me that the Seal of the Confessional only binds the priest or anyone hearing the confession, not the penitent. If it did apply to the penitent, how could a priest ever advise someone to turn themselves in for crimes confessed in confession? Shouldn’t she be free to speak of her own experiences while enjoying the security of knowing that her priest will not disclose them, not herself be as bound as the priest?

EDIT: If someone could link to the relevant section of Canon Law or whatever that might contribute to the discussion.

 

[Contarini]

With all do respect, every citizen is expected to follow the criminal statutes and laws at the state and federal level. It does not matter who you are.

Well, it should. You’re committing idolatry and supporting a totalitarian view of the state.

You’re right that the Church has lost a lot of credibility on this issue because of despicable behavior by bishops and others who covered up for priests instead of “handing them over to the secular arm” as they ought, given the extreme harm caused by the priests’ crimes, to have done.

But that doesn’t change the basic moral/spiritual issue. The Church is not an arm of the state, and the demand that the Church violate the seal of the confessional is tyrannical and unjust, and must be resisted to the point of martyrdom if necessary.

Now in the case of confessional and the learning of crimes, that needs to change. And I believe it will soon. The church has lost the handle on these matters as a result of their own cover ups.

And that may lead to a crisis in which the Church has to suffer persecution. That has often happened in the past when Church leaders messed up. But the Church must suffer persecution rather than allow the state to come between a penitent and Christ.

Eventually, I think that the “surveillance state” will become so odious that people will come to see that the Church is right. But it will probably take a long while, in part because of the horrific failures of church leaders.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

So why didn’t the priest counsel the girl to report the abuse to her parents, police, another priest outside of a confessional, etc.?

That’s the tricky part. That’s clearly what he should have done. She says he didn’t do it. He can’t talk about it, so we don’t know if he would admit or deny that charge.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I go to confession frequently and I agree with the decision. I agree that the young lady and any penitent should be able to speak of their confession and what was said. In the SP’s decision, they even said it should be found in the trial if what was heard was in confession, privileged, or outside which he would be subjected to mandatory reporting.

I believe she should be able to speak of her confession IF she wants to.

No one disputes that. That’s not the point. They want to force the priest to talk about it, because her family is suing the diocese for how the priest handled the situation.

Edwin

 

[irishpatrick]

That’s the tricky part. That’s clearly what he should have done. She says he didn’t do it. He can’t talk about it, so we don’t know if he would admit or deny that charge.

Edwin

Again, if both parties (Confessor and Confessee) had maintained complete anonymity, none of this would be happening. In truth, Confession is an encounter with Jesus Christ, and it is 100% private.

 

[Hopey]

No one disputes that. That’s not the point. They want to force the priest to talk about it, because her family is suing the diocese for how the priest handled the situation.

Edwin

That is what I am not seeing. I am not seeing they are forcing him to talk about it but rather, they will determine if something was said in the confession and if he learned outside.

To me, it could look like this (answer): I am not allowed to speak of anything concerning anyone’s confession.

IrishPatrick, even if she had gone in a confessional with a grill only, this still could be brought up this way. Many parishes only have one priest and scheduled times.
I don’t see how it could completely do away with this unless it was like a World Youth Day. Then again, some have the priest’s name listed, so the penitent would know who it was. Even at EWTN, a name of the priest is above the door and they have grill only confessionals.

 

[schaeffer]

How did the priest end up being the one on trial here?

How does anyone on the outside know what this girl spoke of in the confessional?

If SHE told people what she spoke of in the confessional, then it is a case of her reporting it herself, so why involve the priest?

It appears the priest or the Church is being put on trial here for the practice of their sacraments.

I assume the parents brought this child up Catholic and encouraged her to participate in the sacrament of reconciliation understanding that nothing she says in the confessional can ever be shared by the priest.

Now they want to sue the church for their choice to raise their child and have her participate. HUH?

 

[Hopey]

How did the priest end up being the one on trial here?

How does anyone on the outside know what this girl spoke of in the confessional?

If SHE told people what she spoke of in the confessional, then it is a case of her reporting it herself, so why involve the priest?

It appears the priest or the Church is being put on trial here for the practice of their sacraments.

I assume the parents brought this child up Catholic and encouraged her to participate in the sacrament of reconciliation understanding that nothing she says in the confessional can ever be shared by the priest.

Now they want to sue the church for their choice to raise their child and have her participate. HUH?

The way I am understanding it, along with some lawyers, is that what is to be determined is if what was said was in a confession or if he learned outside the confession which he is mandated to report.

That is all I am seeing.

I am wondering if the girl knew he couldn’t say anything. But that will come out. And could come out with him respecting the seal.