Breaking down Methodism...

[jmcrae]

Paramedic: Packet of “Flintstones” sticky band-aids, a tube of antiseptic cream, and a Mom to kiss the boo-boos, STAT!!

Other Paramedic: Yes sir!! One packet of “Flintstones” sticky bandaids, a tube of antiseptic cream, and a Mom, coming right up!

[Zundra and Spockrates sit quietly while their wounds are dressed, and the Mom kisses them better.]

Police Officer: Now, Ma’am, where did you say that cat was?

Zundrah: In the bag, sir - that one over there.

[Police officer gets the bag - he is about to open it and look inside]

Spockrates and Zundrah, together: DON’T LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG!!

 

[Roy5]

I haven’t has the time to read all the postings, but permit me to add my two cents re Methodists. Typical of many Protestants, I have been active in Methodist churches but also in Congregational (UCC) and Presbyterian churches. Millions of Protestants go from one to the other very easily, depending upon such factors as where one moves, Sunday School program, quality of preaching, music, location, influence of friends, etc.

 What I like about the Methodists - and about the Congregationalists and Presbyterians, also - is that they are 'big tent' denominations. I have met fundamentalist Methodists, very liberal Methodists, Methodists who prefer heavy liturgy and others who like informal worship. We used to joke: take a Baptist and an Episcopalian, put them in a burlap bag and shake well, and you come out with two Methodists. 

 Theology was never Methodism's strong suit. They are more interested in living a life as followers of Christ than the fine points of doctrine. Wesley was said in effect when challenged about theology: "If you love God as I love God, let us join hands and walk together." I have enjoyed Bible studies where various members expressed quite unusual viewpoints and never were told they were heretics. Some people like or need an authoritarian church - e. g.,  Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. - that claims to be the only church that proclaims the full truth. I want my church to permit individual members to interpret the scriptures as they feel led. 

   I also want to give a thumbs up to the Quakers, too. If they only sang vigorous hymns (like the Methodists do) and if a meeting house were in the area, I might enjoy joining with them. 

   The notion that the Methodism is close to Catholicism is promoted by a few people (high-church Methodists) but don't be fooled. Methodists are very Protestant. I have never met one who believed in the real presence except that Jesus promised to be with us always - and everywhere. The idea that somehow Christ is more in the bread or wine at communion strikes me - forgive me if I offend - as, hm, perhaps I should avoid saying what I have in mind, as I respect other faiths even if I can't embrace their teachings. Wesley also said: "Think and let think!" Different strokes for different folks. I treasure the freedom to roam theologically and have read the Church Fathers and many theologians of various persuasions. My undergraduate thesis was on "Democratic Elements in the Political Thought of St. Thomas Aquinas." Unfortunately the good Dr. said that heretics should be delivered over to the state to be executed. 

     God bless Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, people of every creed, color and country. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[spockrates]

Paramedic: Packet of “Flintstones” sticky band-aids, a tube of antiseptic cream, and a Mom to kiss the boo-boos, STAT!!

Other Paramedic: Yes sir!! One packet of “Flintstones” sticky bandaids, a tube of antiseptic cream, and a Mom, coming right up!

[Zundra and Spockrates sit quietly while their wounds are dressed, and the Mom kisses them better.]

Police Officer: Now, Ma’am, where did you say that cat was?

Zundrah: In the bag, sir - that one over there.

[Police officer gets the bag - he is about to open it and look inside]

Spockrates and Zundrah, together: DON’T LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG!!

I bet you’re a better virtual mom than those helpful ladies available to unloved kids like me at the Kleenex Web site!

getmommed.com/

http://www.getmommed.com/sitecrm/logo.png

 

[spockrates]

I haven’t has the time to read all the postings, but permit me to add my two cents re Methodists. Typical of many Protestants, I have been active in Methodist churches but also in Congregational (UCC) and Presbyterian churches. Millions of Protestants go from one to the other very easily, depending upon such factors as where one moves, Sunday School program, quality of preaching, music, location, influence of friends, etc.

 What I like about the Methodists - and about the Congregationalists and Presbyterians, also - is that they are 'big tent' denominations. I have met fundamentalist Methodists, very liberal Methodists, Methodists who prefer heavy liturgy and others who like informal worship. We used to joke: take a Baptist and an Episcopalian, put them in a burlap bag and shake well, and you come out with two Methodists. 

 Theology was never Methodism's strong suit. They are more interested in living a life as followers of Christ than the fine points of doctrine. Wesley was said in effect when challenged about theology: "If you love God as I love God, let us join hands and walk together." I have enjoyed Bible studies where various members expressed quite unusual viewpoints and never were told they were heretics. Some people like or need an authoritarian church - e. g.,  Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. - that claims to be the only church that proclaims the full truth. I want my church to permit individual members to interpret the scriptures as they feel led. 

   I also want to give a thumbs up to the Quakers, too. If they only sang vigorous hymns (like the Methodists do) and if a meeting house were in the area, I might enjoy joining with them. 

   The notion that the Methodism is close to Catholicism is promoted by a few people (high-church Methodists) but don't be fooled. Methodists are very Protestant. I have never met one who believed in the real presence except that Jesus promised to be with us always - and everywhere. The idea that somehow Christ is more in the bread or wine at communion strikes me - forgive me if I offend - as, hm, perhaps I should avoid saying what I have in mind, as I respect other faiths even if I can't embrace their teachings. Wesley also said: "Think and let think!" Different strokes for different folks. I treasure the freedom to roam theologically and have read the Church Fathers and many theologians of various persuasions. My undergraduate thesis was on "Democratic Elements in the Political Thought of St. Thomas Aquinas." Unfortunately the good Dr. said that heretics should be delivered over to the state to be executed. 

     God bless Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, people of every creed, color and country. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

Just when I thought we got the cat in the bag, ROY comes along and pulls him back out!
:frighten:

 

[spockrates]

Nay! I will never surrender! And nore will my cat!

After all that, you don’t really want to give Roy what he wants, do you Zune? If you do, then give me plenty of warning, so I have time to run for my life!

 

[Zundrah]

Paramedic: Packet of “Flintstones” sticky band-aids, a tube of antiseptic cream, and a Mom to kiss the boo-boos, STAT!!

Other Paramedic: Yes sir!! One packet of “Flintstones” sticky bandaids, a tube of antiseptic cream, and a Mom, coming right up!

[Zundra and Spockrates sit quietly while their wounds are dressed, and the Mom kisses them better.]

Police Officer: Now, Ma’am, where did you say that cat was?

Zundrah: In the bag, sir - that one over there.

[Police officer gets the bag - he is about to open it and look inside]

Spockrates and Zundrah, together: DON’T LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG!!

You want my cat out of the bag, don’t you??? :banghead: Well… very soon you will get it! And you’ll regret asking for it!

I haven’t has the time to read all the postings, but permit me to add my two cents re Methodists. Typical of many Protestants, I have been active in Methodist churches but also in Congregational (UCC) and Presbyterian churches. Millions of Protestants go from one to the other very easily, depending upon such factors as where one moves, Sunday School program, quality of preaching, music, location, influence of friends, etc.

 What I like about the Methodists - and about the Congregationalists and Presbyterians, also - is that they are 'big tent' denominations. I have met fundamentalist Methodists, very liberal Methodists, Methodists who prefer heavy liturgy and others who like informal worship. We used to joke: take a Baptist and an Episcopalian, put them in a burlap bag and shake well, and you come out with two Methodists. 

 Theology was never Methodism's strong suit. They are more interested in living a life as followers of Christ than the fine points of doctrine. Wesley was said in effect when challenged about theology: "If you love God as I love God, let us join hands and walk together." I have enjoyed Bible studies where various members expressed quite unusual viewpoints and never were told they were heretics. Some people like or need an authoritarian church - e. g.,  Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. - that claims to be the only church that proclaims the full truth. I want my church to permit individual members to interpret the scriptures as they feel led. 

   I also want to give a thumbs up to the Quakers, too. If they only sang vigorous hymns (like the Methodists do) and if a meeting house were in the area, I might enjoy joining with them. 

   The notion that the Methodism is close to Catholicism is promoted by a few people (high-church Methodists) but don't be fooled. Methodists are very Protestant. I have never met one who believed in the real presence except that Jesus promised to be with us always - and everywhere. The idea that somehow Christ is more in the bread or wine at communion strikes me - forgive me if I offend - as, hm, perhaps I should avoid saying what I have in mind, as I respect other faiths even if I can't embrace their teachings. Wesley also said: "Think and let think!" Different strokes for different folks. I treasure the freedom to roam theologically and have read the Church Fathers and many theologians of various persuasions. My undergraduate thesis was on "Democratic Elements in the Political Thought of St. Thomas Aquinas." Unfortunately the good Dr. said that heretics should be delivered over to the state to be executed. 

     God bless Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, people of every creed, color and country. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

I’m gonna attack you in my next post!

Just when I thought we got the cat in the bag, ROY comes along and pulls him back out!

:frighten:

Arghhhhhh! Nooooo!

After all that, you don’t really want to give Roy what he wants, do you Zune? If you do, then give me plenty of warning, so I have time to run for my life!

You’ve recieved your warning, dear friened. …I can only pray that you survive…

 

[Zundrah]

Here we go (sigh) this is going to be both draining and never ending…

I haven’t has the time to read all the postings, but permit me to add my two cents re Methodists. Typical of many Protestants, I have been active in Methodist churches but also in Congregational (UCC) and Presbyterian churches. .

Aw, bit of a mongrel are we?

Millions of Protestants go from one to the other very easily, depending upon such factors as where one moves, Sunday School program, quality of preaching, music, location, influence of friends, etc.

This is true, and most catholics are unaware of how easily protestants can mix and go to any church. Catholics usually think that protestants are serious about doctrine and that you really are “rival sects”.

What I like about the Methodists - and about the Congregationalists and Presbyterians, also - is that they are ‘big tent’ denominations. I have met fundamentalist Methodists, very liberal Methodists, Methodists who prefer heavy liturgy and others who like informal worship. We used to joke: take a Baptist and an Episcopalian, put them in a burlap bag and shake well, and you come out with two Methodists.

Yeah but even befor or after we still manage to result with a heretic.

 Theology was never Methodism's strong suit.

What, are you serious!? I actually strongly dissagree with you there…

They are more interested in living a life as followers of Christ than the fine points of doctrine.

True and untrue, I guess it depends on the actual person?

Wesley was said in effect when challenged about theology: “If you love God as I love God, let us join hands and walk together.”

Wesley was Anglican, that says it all.

I have enjoyed Bible studies where various members expressed quite unusual viewpoints and never were told they were heretics.

I use to love my bible studies at my Methodist church. But just as you say, the ministers did allow some very corrupt views to be spoken out by others.

Some people like or need an authoritarian church - e. g., Catholicism, Mormonism, etc. - that claims to be the only church that proclaims the full truth.

Well, I’ve never thought of it that way. But it is nice to have that reassuance that your clergy know what they are talking about and that your church has history that actually dates right back to Jesus’ time… (eg; the Roman Catholic Church)…

I want my church to permit individual members to interpret the scriptures as they feel led.

Hmm, I’m sure you mean well but… think about it.

   I also want to give a thumbs up to the Quakers, too. If they only sang vigorous hymns (like the Methodists do) and if a meeting house were in the area, I might enjoy joining with them.

Quakers are new to me, so unfortunately I can’t comment.

The notion that the Methodism is close to Catholicism is promoted by a few people (high-church Methodists) but don't be fooled. Methodists are very Protestant.

Methodist are ver very protestant!

I have never met one who believed in the real presence…

…err… John Wesley did never ever deny the true presence…

except that Jesus promised to be with us always - and everywhere.

Yes, this I also believe.

The idea that somehow Christ is more in the bread or wine at communion strikes me - forgive me if I offend - as, hm,

…? I also remember some sort of disturbed feeling when I learned this too.

perhaps I should avoid saying what I have in mind, as I respect other faiths even if I can’t embrace their teachings.

If I am to be honest with you, it is better that you do refrain from expressing your thoughts on this. I would love for you to be open and honest, but when I was methodist, I was nearly banned from this site on three sepearte occasions for expressing my view on catholic communion… dispite the fact that I was not being abusive.

Wesley also said: “Think and let think!” Different strokes for different folks. I treasure the freedom to roam theologically and have read the Church Fathers and many theologians of various persuasions.

Let me tell you that in the 1st 2nd and third century, you will not find an early church Father who denied the true presence… maybe you would like to look this up? The true presence was always believed as a christian fact rather than theory… the reformation changed that after 1600 years of christianity… but do you already know that? Probably…

My undergraduate thesis was on “Democratic Elements in the Political Thought of St. Thomas Aquinas.” Unfortunately the good Dr. said that heretics should be delivered over to the state to be executed.

Maybe that is because they were taking peoples knowledge further and further away from scriptural truth? Heresy back then was terrible…

God bless Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, people of every creed, color and country. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier

God bless you, you little heretic!

 

[Zundrah]

After all that, you don’t really want to give Roy what he wants, do you Zune? If you do, then give me plenty of warning, so I have time to run for my life!

Here she comes!

 

[Roy5]

Rejoinders to Zundrah

A few quick rejoinders. Too much else to do to become as verbose as I usually am.

(1) In Canada Methodists, Congregationalists and Presbyterians merged and became the United Church of Canada way back in 1925. My French-Canadian Grandparents left Quebec as they found that French Protestants (they were children of converts - Baptists) were not highly regarded by the English Protestants or the French Catholics. Catholicism in Quebec has become so decimated that the Catholic church in my Grandmother's birthplace is now up for sale. The Protestants aren't doing all that well, either.

 (2) Methodism always emphasized the work of the Holy Spirit, a Christianity that warmed the soul, Christian experience, a holy life, rather than theology. At least here in the USA. I found English Methodism somewhat different on my three visits there.

  (3) Yes, Wesley was an Anglican, basically ousted by that church because he wanted to preach to the farmers, millhands, and miners, and did not cater to the upper class. Methodists (well, like me, anyway) don't consider the words of Wesley sacred. Nor those of a Luther or a Calvin. They did break the church monopoly in western Christianity, and for that I salute them despite some weaknesses in them all. I need a 'big tent' church as I believe that it's fine to have diversity within Christianity. There's an old hymn that begins: "You go to your church and I'll go to mine, but let's walk along together." My attitude well summarized.

  (4) At one stage I read most of the Church Fathers such as Clement of Alexandria. Anselm, and Augustine, yes, and 'heretics' like Origen and Tertullian. They were keen minds for their era but I recall a lot of nonsense in their writings, too. I excuse some of that because they had no modern telescopes or microscopes, etc., but I certainly don't view them as principal sources of reliable information, including doctrine.

  (5) If people can believe in transubstantiation, be my guest. Some of my good friends are loyal Catholics, although most Catholics I know differ with the church on some major issues, even doctrines.  I have to be honest in that I do have an inquiring and perhaps quite skeptical mind and transubstantiation is something I cannot accept. Real presence? The Holy Spirit is everywhere at all times - so, of course.

 (6) The churches making a major headway today are the Pentecostal ones, who, in a sense, have semi-Methodist roots. This seems to be especially true in Latin America and parts of Africa. Early American Methodists were known as 'shouting Methodists' who held emotional camp meetings and such. They established several hundred colleges in the USA, and increased education led to an expansiveness in thinking but a diminished enthusiasm. The same has happened within Catholicism. Increased education is one reason 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Sadly, those of little or no religious faith are growing here, and perhaps even more so in Europe.

  (7) Thanks for calling me a 'little heretic'. Actually I'm a heretic that should lose some weight.

  God bless all those who believe in God and seek to serve him by promoting understanding, kindness, and peace. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[spockrates]

Here she comes!

http://hamburg.theoffside.com/files/2008/09/arton1878-75231.jpg

The Horror

 

[Zundrah]

http://hamburg.theoffside.com/files/2008/09/arton1878-75231.jpg

The Horror

And you better believe it!

 

[Zundrah]

Rejoinders to Zundrah

A few quick rejoinders. Too much else to do to become as verbose as I usually am.

(1) In Canada Methodists, Congregationalists and Presbyterians merged and became the United Church of Canada way back in 1925. My French-Canadian Grandparents left Quebec as they found that French Protestants (they were children of converts - Baptists) were not highly regarded by the English Protestants or the French Catholics. Catholicism in Quebec has become so decimated that the Catholic church in my Grandmother's birthplace is now up for sale. The Protestants aren't doing all that well, either.

 (2) Methodism always emphasized the work of the Holy Spirit, a Christianity that warmed the soul, Christian experience, a holy life, rather than theology. At least here in the USA. I found English Methodism somewhat different on my three visits there.

  (3) Yes, Wesley was an Anglican, basically ousted by that church because he wanted to preach to the farmers, millhands, and miners, and did not cater to the upper class. Methodists (well, like me, anyway) don't consider the words of Wesley sacred. Nor those of a Luther or a Calvin. They did break the church monopoly in western Christianity, and for that I salute them despite some weaknesses in them all. I need a 'big tent' church as I believe that it's fine to have diversity within Christianity. There's an old hymn that begins: "You go to your church and I'll go to mine, but let's walk along together." My attitude well summarized.

  (4) At one stage I read most of the Church Fathers such as Clement of Alexandria. Anselm, and Augustine, yes, and 'heretics' like Origen and Tertullian. They were keen minds for their era but I recall a lot of nonsense in their writings, too. I excuse some of that because they had no modern telescopes or microscopes, etc., but I certainly don't view them as principal sources of reliable information, including doctrine.

  (5) If people can believe in transubstantiation, be my guest. Some of my good friends are loyal Catholics, although most Catholics I know differ with the church on some major issues, even doctrines.  I have to be honest in that I do have an inquiring and perhaps quite skeptical mind and transubstantiation is something I cannot accept. Real presence? The Holy Spirit is everywhere at all times - so, of course.

 (6) The churches making a major headway today are the Pentecostal ones, who, in a sense, have semi-Methodist roots. This seems to be especially true in Latin America and parts of Africa. Early American Methodists were known as 'shouting Methodists' who held emotional camp meetings and such. They established several hundred colleges in the USA, and increased education led to an expansiveness in thinking but a diminished enthusiasm. The same has happened within Catholicism. Increased education is one reason 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Sadly, those of little or no religious faith are growing here, and perhaps even more so in Europe.

  (7) Thanks for calling me a 'little heretic'. Actually I'm a heretic that should lose some weight.

  God bless all those who believe in God and seek to serve him by promoting understanding, kindness, and peace. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

Blaaahhh… are you a Methodist?

Do you know about the fulfilment of passover?

Little heretic needs to loose weight? Perhaps my assulting you may help you loose a few pounds? :whacky:

P.S. Feel free to join our little conversation over my cat jumping out of her bag and shooting everyone dead. By the way, watch yourself, she doesn’t like heretics!

 

[emeraldcoast]

Rejoinders to Zundrah

A few quick rejoinders. Too much else to do to become as verbose as I usually am.

(1) In Canada Methodists, Congregationalists and Presbyterians merged and became the United Church of Canada way back in 1925. My French-Canadian Grandparents left Quebec as they found that French Protestants (they were children of converts - Baptists) were not highly regarded by the English Protestants or the French Catholics. Catholicism in Quebec has become so decimated that the Catholic church in my Grandmother's birthplace is now up for sale. The Protestants aren't doing all that well, either.

 (2) Methodism always emphasized the work of the Holy Spirit, a Christianity that warmed the soul, Christian experience, a holy life, rather than theology. At least here in the USA. I found English Methodism somewhat different on my three visits there.

  (3) Yes, Wesley was an Anglican, basically ousted by that church because he wanted to preach to the farmers, millhands, and miners, and did not cater to the upper class. Methodists (well, like me, anyway) don't consider the words of Wesley sacred. Nor those of a Luther or a Calvin. They did break the church monopoly in western Christianity, and for that I salute them despite some weaknesses in them all. I need a 'big tent' church as I believe that it's fine to have diversity within Christianity. There's an old hymn that begins: "You go to your church and I'll go to mine, but let's walk along together." My attitude well summarized.

  (4) At one stage I read most of the Church Fathers such as Clement of Alexandria. Anselm, and Augustine, yes, and 'heretics' like Origen and Tertullian. They were keen minds for their era but I recall a lot of nonsense in their writings, too. I excuse some of that because they had no modern telescopes or microscopes, etc., but I certainly don't view them as principal sources of reliable information, including doctrine.

  (5) If people can believe in transubstantiation, be my guest. Some of my good friends are loyal Catholics, although most Catholics I know differ with the church on some major issues, even doctrines.  I have to be honest in that I do have an inquiring and perhaps quite skeptical mind and transubstantiation is something I cannot accept. Real presence? The Holy Spirit is everywhere at all times - so, of course.

 (6) The churches making a major headway today are the Pentecostal ones, who, in a sense, have semi-Methodist roots. This seems to be especially true in Latin America and parts of Africa. Early American Methodists were known as 'shouting Methodists' who held emotional camp meetings and such. They established several hundred colleges in the USA, and increased education led to an expansiveness in thinking but a diminished enthusiasm. The same has happened within Catholicism. Increased education is one reason 30,000,000 Americans are ex-Catholics. Sadly, those of little or no religious faith are growing here, and perhaps even more so in Europe.

  (7) Thanks for calling me a 'little heretic'. Actually I'm a heretic that should lose some weight.

  God bless all those who believe in God and seek to serve him by promoting understanding, kindness, and peace. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

Thank you for your post, Roy!

Merry Christmas!

 

[Zundrah]

Thank you for your post, Roy!

Merry Christmas!

 

[spockrates]

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7133&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1260932918

How can I argue with him?

It has been fun, Zune! Thanks for the chuckles. Let’s do it again, sometime soon.

 

[Zundrah]

How can I argue with him?

It has been fun, Zune! Thanks for the chuckles. Let’s do it again, sometime soon.

Glad to be of service.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Zundrah:
Why are you making a joke about this post? Some of us actually were interested in this topic.

God Bless!

 

[Zundrah]

Why are you making a joke about this post? Some of us actually were interested in this topic.

God Bless!

I don’t know what happened!