Breaking the cylce!

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Hi,
My wife and I have a pattern we repeat after every new baby. It goes like this:

  1. *]We get pregnant. Usually our pregnancies are pretty good.
    *]We have the baby. Life is very hard.
    *]We doubt the churches teachings and complain bitterly about the lack of support.
    *]I stress out about my job.
    *]I consider getting a vasectomy because we both feel we are at our wits end.
    *]Life goes on, a new routine develops.
    *]We abstain because NFP seems impossible for us.
    *]After a year or two, things are going well.
    *]We begin to consider being open to life again.
    *]Pregnancy occurs.
    *]Begin cycle again.

    Steps 2 to 5 in the cycle suck. Does anyone have any insight of advice on how to short circuit this madness? I know there are a lot of factors involved and it is hard to generalize, but I’d appreciate any tips.

    Please pray for us, because I am at steps 3, 4, and 5 right now. I know all I have to do is bear with it and I’ll eventually slide into step 6, but I’m feeling pretty weak right now.

    For those of you who have chosen to break out of the cycle permanently at step 5 - God knows that I am not judging you - but I’m not looking for your feedback right now.

    God bless,
    Ut
 
A response I often give to myself is as follows:

“Stop whining you you twit. You have six healthy beautiful kids!. They are amazing and bring such joy. You have a job. You have friends who support you. Stop being such a damn baby!”

"The temptation to sterilize will lead to a subtle change in the way you relate to your wife that will cause serious damage to the relationship. Doing so may be a one way ticket to wrecking your marriage and not to the care free bliss you think this will bring. "

“If you lose your job, God will provide somehow.”

“There are two ways you can proceed in this life. One way leads to life and the other to destruction. If you focus on the way that leads to destruction, you will only make choices that impact you in this life. If you focus on the way that leads to life, you will make choices in light of eternal life.”

“This is total and utter foolishness to those who focus only on maximizing their pleasures in this life. But the “…foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom [1 Cor]” Don’t be afraid to be a total idiot for God!”

"Really your complains stem from selfishness. An unwillingness to serve or to expand your heart to generously welcome each new life with a spirit of thanksgiving. There is nothing that can replace this new gift of life that God has entrusted to you. That new child is a reflection of God! “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me. [Mark9:37]” Do not let that spirit of the anti-Christ prompt you to say “non-serviam!”

God bless,
Ut
 
Can you work on building your support system when things aren’t so hard? Friends, fellow parishioners, relatives, maybe professionals (counselors being the biggie, but maybe even other services like housekeeping, a postpartum doula, etc.?) With six, your “big kids” are probably capable of doing quite a bit to help too.

I only have three children so far, but I’m finding that this time is going so much better than after #1 and #2, and I think a lot of it has to do with being a part of our community, knowing I have a good therapist I can call anytime, and the previous counseling I’ve had that’s improved the way my husband and I communicate our needs. I felt alone after #1 and #2, and that did lead to hopeless and despairing feelings.
 
I want to ask you about #3. What sort of “support” have you reached out to? Do you have a regular confessor? Do you receive spiritual direction? How heavily do you rely on your spiritual life?

A priest gave a beautiful homily about Peter walking on water. When he began to doubt, he fell into the water. He reached up to Jesus who then pulled him out. We are like Peter, when the temptations and crosses come that bring the doubt, it causes us to sink. We must reach out and hold onto Jesus. He will keep you from drowning. We can’t pretend that we will never slip under, you see the cycle yourself. We need to keep our reach out to Jesus. Working on your spiritual life will get you there.

Not sure why your life is hard. We all have our struggles in different areas. Those things should be addressed with your wife so they don’t build up to a dangerous point.
 
Our main support comes from people who reject the church’s teachings on contraception and sterilization. Those Catholics who are in our lives are in no position to provide us with any kind of support. The priests are too busy and there is little opportunity for spiritual direction. So yes, MomaMary8 - I feel like a Peter with no physical Jesus to reach out to. This has been a major problem in our lives. My family takes up so much of our social time that we have little left for developing our Catholic social circle. What help I get from my lapsed or nominal catholic family comes with disapproving comments and feigned charity, with comments like, “is this your last?” or Its your fault for having so many kids. I am constantly surrounded by this at home and at work.
 
. I’m so sorry. I know it was very difficult for my husband to swim against the current until he found Catholic, pro-life support. The men in his life are not cheerleaders by any means, but they do congratulate him with each birth of a child, something that is hard to find in the secular world. He also found a good confessor that became his spiritual director. It is a much different experience than when he had to deal with the people pushing him for a vasectomy.

As a wife, I found pro-life women and then created dinner dates or nights out for drinks, etc to introduce my husband to other good fathers. Does your wife have a good circle of friends, or is just the friends and families that you deal with? In all honesty, we have very little time for extended family. Some accept us and embrace our Catholic living, some see us as nutters even when they are Catholic, too. We no longer give them time to bother us.

Sometimes the priest in religious orders are more apostolic and have more time to give in confession and SD. Are there any religious orders in your area? Lay ministries? Opus Dei? Redemporists? Schoenstatt? These are a few that are very helpful to families wishing to live out their faith. You may find families that are like minded, and not try to push you under the water, as it sounds like your current crowd is doing.

Remember, it’s only a live fish that can swim up the stream. Dead fish simply float with the current (not a direct quote, but wisdom from G.K Chesterton.)
 
Thanks for your wise words MomaMary8.

We do have some good Catholic support, but I have not been able to break out of the social web of my family. Overall, they have a negative influence in our spiritual and mental lives even though they often shower us with material blessings, and parties, etc…

Six years ago, I tried to leave the town we live in. We were all set to move to a town 4 hours away, which would have made it much easier for us to break off the constant tide of socializing with them. But my wife would not allow us to leave on account of her very ill mother and father. They are good people and we were initially part of their FSSP community, but we have since left that parish. There was too much anti-vatican II folks. All they seem to want to do is build walls around themselves and keep the unfaithful or heterodox out.

Having left, we have a fairly good Catholic social network out of our current parish, but not enough to really counterballance the influence of my family.

We find ourselves in this no-man’s land in the culture war. We are right on the front lines, not miles behind them. It creates this sense of PTSD. Don’t get me started on the medical folks who are constantly after us to sterlize and contracept. Show any kind of weakness in front of them and they could take your kids away!.

I still long to move away from it all and start fresh somewhere else. But that is probably unrealistic.

God bless,
Ut
 
Yes, “help” from people who make it known that they disapprove is not much at all.

Are there social groups through your parish? Does Meetup.com have groups in your area for large families and/or practicing Catholics? Are your children in school or involved in other activities where you can get to know the parents?

I’ll repeat the suggestion about a counselor. If you’re stuck in stress or tired think it could be very beneficial to have a fresh pair of eyes help you sort through things. Catholic Charities may employ counselors, or be able to refer you to one.
 
If you’re wife has PCOS I’m not sure why you don’t seek hormonal treatment. I don’t understand the point of being a martyr and refusing the medical treatment you have available.
 
I’m hoping and praying we get to step 8 and end there.

I’ll do anything to get there and stay there.

I agree with everyone about working on your support cycle and getting involved with more activities and play groups with like minded people.

We are in steps 3-5 and are working on getting through this too.

I have 3 babies with zero intention to have anymore…ever.

For me…hanging around more pro-life people keeps me from committing mortal sin.

It doesn’t inspire or change my mind about having more kids…but it does stop me from doing something drastic.
 
We are blessed to be 7 hours away from most family :D:p

All you need is a few good friends to support you. Try and work on going out once a month with another couple, or having their family come over for a game night, or something. You need a better social outlet. You can build this gradually. Don’t forget to pray to your gaurdian Angels to help you in finding friends.

You also may do well in increasing your spiritual reading. Do you do any? Since you don’t have a director to help guide you in your spiritualality, try picking up any book by Jacque Pillippe. He is excellent and easy to read. You don’t have to read a lot everyday, but 10-15 minutes a day will help keep your hand reaching out of the water.

frjacquesphilippe.com/books
 
I don’t have anything to add, but I want to subscribe to this thread and also offer my prayers. After 7 pregnancies (five born children and two miscarriages) in a decade, I am really struggling right now. My reasons are different, but our circumstances are somewhat similar.
 
utunumsint said:
A response I often give to myself is as follows:

“Stop whining you you twit. You have six healthy beautiful kids!. They are amazing and bring such joy. You have a job. You have friends who support you. Stop being such a damn baby!”

Don’t call yourself names. And never ever curse yourself. You and your wife are demonstrating heroic virtue here.

"The temptation to sterilize will lead to a subtle change in the way you relate to your wife that will cause serious damage to the relationship. Doing so may be a one way ticket to wrecking your marriage and not to the care free bliss you think this will bring. "

i think you are absolutely right on this one. It is a very mature and insightful perspective.

“If you lose your job, God will provide somehow.”

“There are two ways you can proceed in this life. One way leads to life and the other to destruction. If you focus on the way that leads to destruction, you will only make choices that impact you in this life. If you focus on the way that leads to life, you will make choices in light of eternal life.”

“This is total and utter foolishness to those who focus only on maximizing their pleasures in this life. But the “…foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom [1 Cor]” Don’t be afraid to be a total idiot for God!”

"Really your complains stem from selfishness. An unwillingness to serve or to expand your heart to generously welcome each new life with a spirit of thanksgiving. There is nothing that can replace this new gift of life that God has entrusted to you. That new child is a reflection of God! “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me. [Mark9:37]” Do not let that spirit of the anti-Christ prompt you to say “non-serviam”.

It is not selfishness that you and your wife desire to be free to engage in marital relations. God gave couples the marital act as a gift to bond them together. We know this is true at a spiritual level, but even science has demonstrated some of the ways in which this is accomplished at the physical level. Babies are sometimes the literal fruit of the union, but babies do not have to be the purpose for engaging in the act. You are allowed to desire the marital act as a way of giving and receiving love with your spouse.

God bless,
Ut
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I see your example as a beautiful witness to UNselfishness and heroic virtue, while you, who know your own inner struggles to cope with the trials, see only your own selfishness. This is because you are conflating your feelings with your character. And that is never fair to oneself.

I don’t know if there is a way for you and your wife to find more infertile days, but I would encourage you to keep trying to do so. A different form of NFP perhaps, or medical treatment or nutritional therapies that help your wife to regulate her cycles to make a method of NFP more usable for her.

That is all I can say for now. From my own struggles with having actual physical pain associated with days of longing for the embrace with my husband, I would never suggest prolonged abstinence to a couple facing difficulties with NFP and pregnancies. If that was the choice they made for themselves, then I would support them in prayer (as I will for you), but my opinion is that road is fraught with dangers. I hope my opinion encourages you to keep trying, and not to despair. God bless you and your wife!
 
I must first congratulate you on your beautiful and blessed family. I have two beautiful daughters who I love dearly and are the greatest blessing in my life. I would’ve loved to have a few more children, but my genetic disease, brain & spinal cord tumors, and pancreatic cancer have made that impossible and indeed, that I was able to have the two children I did is somewhat miraculous. Long before we became Catholic and knowing additional pregnancies would be disastrous, my husband had a vasectomy. We would choose differently now, as Catholics, and have confessed and processed the situation with our priest. Anyhow, I view children as an incredible blessing and also understand the overwhelm that comes, especially with very young babies and kids. I have a girl in fourth grade and another in sixth (middle school!) and although some things are easier as the girls get older, there are different issues that arise.

Regarding your family, I know how trapped you must feel at times. Certainly, moving would be a great solution, but in the event that is never possible, I want to encourage you that you can still work toward a healthy distance and separation of your core family unit from your family of origin. Family members are often enmeshed, to use a clinical term, and boundaries are blurred and too fluid. A healthy way of relating is for individuals to differentiate from other family members and have solid and clear boundaries with them. It is difficult, especially at first, to tell your family no or to set limits, but I promise as time goes on it gets easier. The more consistent you are, the more extended family begins to understand you are serious and will either respect your boundaries or at least be forced to honor them. As a husband and father, it is your core family unit that is your priority. You may want to do some research on enmeshed and differentiated relationships and boundaries.

I empathize with your situation and truly wish you and your family the best. Please try to be kind to yourself, take it a day (or hour) at a time, and know that this phase of your family lifecycle will indeed pass. May God give you the love and wisdom you need to be the husband and father you are striving to be.
 
utunumsint said:
Hi,
My wife and I have a pattern we repeat after every new baby. It goes like this:

  1. *]We get pregnant. Usually our pregnancies are pretty good.
    *]We have the baby. Life is very hard.
    *]We doubt the churches teachings and complain bitterly about the lack of support.
    *]I stress out about my job.
    *]I consider getting a vasectomy because we both feel we are at our wits end.
    *]Life goes on, a new routine develops.
    *]We abstain because NFP seems impossible for us.
    *]After a year or two, things are going well.
    *]We begin to consider being open to life again.
    *]Pregnancy occurs.
    *]Begin cycle again.

    Steps 2 to 5 in the cycle suck. Does anyone have any insight of advice on how to short circuit this madness? I know there are a lot of factors involved and it is hard to generalize, but I’d appreciate any tips.

    Please pray for us, because I am at steps 3, 4, and 5 right now. I know all I have to do is bear with it and I’ll eventually slide into step 6, but I’m feeling pretty weak right now.

    For those of you who have chosen to break out of the cycle permanently at step 5 - God knows that I am not judging you - but I’m not looking for your feedback right now.

    God bless,
    Ut
Click to expand...

  1. I don’t have anything to add, but I’m following this thread with much interest. My one and only pregnancy was horrible because my husband did not take it well (it was too soon, I guess). After a long talk recently, he said that it is not that he never wanted children, but that he had imagined that we would have a house, two cars and a secured permanent job before becoming pregnant. But I made him think that if he would have married a person of his age, by the time they accomplish that thought/expectation, she would have been unable to conceive. Still, the thought of getting pregnant again scares him a lot. Currently, we are applying for his permanent residence because he is a foreigner who works for the government, we live rented and we have one car (a gift).

    I hope my husband does not read your post or he will panic!

    Praying for you!

    PS. I’m breastfeeding, so I can relate with the point #7.
 
Kelfa28 said:
I’m hoping and praying we get to step 8 and end there.

I’ll do anything to get there and stay there.

I agree with everyone about working on your support cycle and getting involved with more activities and play groups with like minded people.

We are in steps 3-5 and are working on getting through this too.

I have 3 babies with zero intention to have anymore…ever.

For me…hanging around more pro-life people keeps me from committing mortal sin.

It doesn’t inspire or change my mind about having more kids…but it does stop me from doing something drastic.
Click to expand...
Hang in there Kelfa28. Fell free to vent! Having been through this before, I know there is light at the end of the tunnel. Its good to know that we are not alone in this.

God bless,
Ut
 
jmjZelie said:
I don’t have anything to add, but I want to subscribe to this thread and also offer my prayers. After 7 pregnancies (five born children and two miscarriages) in a decade, I am really struggling right now. My reasons are different, but our circumstances are somewhat similar.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing that jmjZelie. I appreciate your kind words. I hope I can help folks here who are struggling too in some way.

God bless,
Ut
 
jmjZelie said:
It is not selfishness that you and your wife desire to be free to engage in marital relations. God gave couples the marital act as a gift to bond them together. We know this is true at a spiritual level, but even science has demonstrated some of the ways in which this is accomplished at the physical level. Babies are sometimes the literal fruit of the union, but babies do not have to be the purpose for engaging in the act. You are allowed to desire the marital act as a way of giving and receiving love with your spouse.
Click to expand...
I fully agree. 🙂 Our abstaining was something we both entered into knowing it would be very difficult and wishing it could be otherwise.
I see your example as a beautiful witness to UNselfishness and heroic virtue, while you, who know your own inner struggles to cope with the trials, see only your own selfishness. This is because you are conflating your feelings with your character. And that is never fair to oneself.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words.
I don’t know if there is a way for you and your wife to find more infertile days, but I would encourage you to keep trying to do so. A different form of NFP perhaps, or medical treatment or nutritional therapies that help your wife to regulate her cycles to make a method of NFP more usable for her.
Click to expand...
We will keep searching.
That is all I can say for now. From my own struggles with having actual physical pain associated with days of longing for the embrace with my husband, I would never suggest prolonged abstinence to a couple facing difficulties with NFP and pregnancies. If that was the choice they made for themselves, then I would support them in prayer (as I will for you), but my opinion is that road is fraught with dangers. I hope my opinion encourages you to keep trying, and not to despair. God bless you and your wife!
Click to expand...
Agreed. It is not something we do lightly.

God bless,
Ut
 
lifeandhope said:
I must first congratulate you on your beautiful and blessed family. I have two beautiful daughters who I love dearly and are the greatest blessing in my life. I would’ve loved to have a few more children, but my genetic disease, brain & spinal cord tumors, and pancreatic cancer have made that impossible and indeed, that I was able to have the two children I did is somewhat miraculous. Long before we became Catholic and knowing additional pregnancies would be disastrous, my husband had a vasectomy. We would choose differently now, as Catholics, and have confessed and processed the situation with our priest. Anyhow, I view children as an incredible blessing and also understand the overwhelm that comes, especially with very young babies and kids. I have a girl in fourth grade and another in sixth (middle school!) and although some things are easier as the girls get older, there are different issues that arise.
Click to expand...
The kids are wonderful. They are so full of joy and life. They are never a source of pain or anxiety for me. Although none of them have reached the teen years yet. 😛 I also know from my brother how hard it can be to have infertility. Praise God for the two he has given you.
Regarding your family, I know how trapped you must feel at times. Certainly, moving would be a great solution, but in the event that is never possible, I want to encourage you that you can still work toward a healthy distance and separation of your core family unit from your family of origin. Family members are often enmeshed, to use a clinical term, and boundaries are blurred and too fluid. A healthy way of relating is for individuals to differentiate from other family members and have solid and clear boundaries with them. It is difficult, especially at first, to tell your family no or to set limits, but I promise as time goes on it gets easier. The more consistent you are, the more extended family begins to understand you are serious and will either respect your boundaries or at least be forced to honor them. As a husband and father, it is your core family unit that is your priority. You may want to do some research on enmeshed and differentiated relationships and boundaries.
Click to expand...
I 100% agree and for the most part, we have pretty good boundaries. Its only when we become needy, such as when a new child is born and we need help with the kids, that those boundaries start to get blurred. Then there is the neediness of my wife’s parents that keep us bound to them. But, in many ways, these are the normal bonds that we need as part of our support system. Family ought to care for family.
I empathize with your situation and truly wish you and your family the best. Please try to be kind to yourself, take it a day (or hour) at a time, and know that this phase of your family lifecycle will indeed pass. May God give you the love and wisdom you need to be the husband and father you are striving to be.
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Thank you! :o jmjZelie also chastised me for not being kind enough to myself. I will try to do better on that front.

God bless,
Ut
 
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