Bring back the paddle in schools?

[St_John]

I agree, bringing back the paddle wouldn’t be the simple solution to all the ills of the schools. So much else has changed since the 60’s, such as breakdown of the family, illegitimacy rates approaching 40%, liberal attitudes towards discipline, increased drug abuse among parents, welfare state enabling bad behavior, repressing religion in the public arena, the list goes on and on.

Back in the older times kids behaved better, and none of them were medicated for ADHD. They were able to better control the disruptive kids without using drugs. The reason they want them medicated these days is because they have no other recourse. I sympathize with the teachers. We keep pouring money into the schools, bringing in more counselors, putting kids on drugs. I do think the schools need to get back to the basics, and the paddle could be part of that plan. But, I don’t see it happening, there are too many lawyers out there, and the public thinks they are all victims and want to be compensated.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

I agree, bringing back the paddle wouldn’t be the simple solution to all the ills of the schools. So much else has changed since the 60’s, such as breakdown of the family, illegitimacy rates approaching 40%, liberal attitudes towards discipline, increased drug abuse among parents, welfare state enabling bad behavior, repressing religion in the public arena, the list goes on and on.

Back in the older times kids behaved better, and none of them were medicated for ADHD. They were able to better control the disruptive kids without using drugs. The reason they want them medicated these days is because they have no other recourse. I sympathize with the teachers. We keep pouring money into the schools, bringing in more counselors, putting kids on drugs. I do think the schools need to get back to the basics, and the paddle could be part of that plan. But, I don’t see it happening, there are too many lawyers out there, and the public thinks they are all victims and want to be compensated.

Oh, really? If the kids were so great back then, why did the paddle ever have to come out after the first month of school?

I remember the paddle. I say good riddance to it. The teachers don’t need it. They don’t need rulers for whacking knuckles or slapping wrists, either. That stuff doesn’t work.

What the teachers need, among other things, is
a) classes of a manageable size
b) parents who support their authority in the classroom
c) a class schedule with enough time and opportunity for the children to really exercise

If you can’t have those, all the whacking in the world is not going to restore order to the classroom.

It would also help if children were relieved of the expectation that the world revolves around them, that they deserve compensation whenever they work, and that they are entitled to entertainment and freedom from boredom or tedium.

Giving the teachers paddles isn’t going to solve any of that!

 

[gmarie21]

I agree, bringing back the paddle wouldn’t be the simple solution to all the ills of the schools. So much else has changed since the 60’s, such as breakdown of the family, illegitimacy rates approaching 40%, liberal attitudes towards discipline, increased drug abuse among parents, welfare state enabling bad behavior, repressing religion in the public arena, the list goes on and on.

Back in the older times kids behaved better, and none of them were medicated for ADHD. They were able to better control the disruptive kids without using drugs. The reason they want them medicated these days is because they have no other recourse. I sympathize with the teachers. We keep pouring money into the schools, bringing in more counselors, putting kids on drugs. I do think the schools need to get back to the basics, and the paddle could be part of that plan. But, I don’t see it happening, there are too many lawyers out there, and the public thinks they are all victims and want to be compensated.

Two questions for you: first, what do you mean by “welfare state enabling bad behavior”? Second, what have you done to change things? Maybe you have done something, maybe you haven’t, however, I know the elders in my life who complain about how things are “these days” fail to do anything, let alone recognize their own contribution to the breakdown. The youth are not to blame, the “Greatest Generation” the “Baby Boomers” the “Disco Generation” the “Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll Generation” and the “Generation X” (those in their early thirties/late twenties) are responsible because we ARE the ADULTS!!!

We are responsible for our children and their behaviour. Some children suffer psychological and/or physical disabilities, and while there has been too much over perscription, one should not write off every child who suffers from such diseases as the adults in their not being able to handle kids who are just being kids.

 

[St_John]

What have I done? I have raised well behaved children who were not allowed to get away with bad behavior. I have supported them through my own efforts, paid for their healthcare, set an example of responsiblity, and have been a contributing member of society. Yes, I used spanking when they were younger, mostly before age 7.

As far as the welfare state, it has allowed a permenant underclass to develop in this country that has greatly contributed to the decline in values. There a multigenerals in this community that has not had gainful employment, where single motherhood is the norm. This has led to violent, disinchanted youth who are attracted to gangs as a form of pseudo family. I think we are all aware of the problem, I’m not the first person to observe this.

 

[St_John]

What have I done? I have raised well behaved children who were not allowed to get away with bad behavior. I have supported them through my own efforts, paid for their healthcare, set an example of responsiblity, and have been a contributing member of society. Yes, I used spanking when they were younger, mostly before age 7.

As far as the welfare state, it has allowed a permenant underclass to develop in this country that has greatly contributed to the decline in values. There a multigenerations in this community that has not had gainful employment, where single motherhood is the norm. This has led to violent, disinchanted youth who are attracted to gangs as a form of pseudo family. I think we are all aware of the problem, I’m not the first person to observe this.

 

[gmarie21]

What have I done? I have raised well behaved children who were not allowed to get away with bad behavior. I have supported them through my own efforts, paid for their healthcare, set an example of responsiblity, and have been a contributing member of society. Yes, I used spanking when they were younger, mostly before age 7.

As far as the welfare state, it has allowed a permenant underclass to develop in this country that has greatly contributed to the decline in values. There a multigenerations in this community that has not had gainful employment, where single motherhood is the norm. This has led to violent, disinchanted youth who are attracted to gangs as a form of pseudo family. I think we are all aware of the problem, I’m not the first person to observe this.

You need to clarify, b/c college financial aid is also a part of the welfare system. Not to mention MOST individuals on welfare are on for a temporary amount of time. Are their people who take advantage of the system? Yes, but once you’re educated about the realities of the system you’ll soon learn that thos who take advantage of the system are in a very small minority of those who receive from the welfare system. As a single mom I don’t take advantage of what I could receive based on my own decsision, but I do not criticize those single parents who need the system temporarily to help them get by for a few months to a few (and I mean few) years.

 

[Catholic90]

No, things have gone wrong since parents allow their children regularly play grossly violent video games, watch cartoons like Southpark as family, allow their children unmonitored access to the internet and don’t teach their children personal accountabilty or respect for authority. Times have definately changed. Parents personal freedom and career ambitions are more important than being home to raise and supervise their children.

A swat on the behind is not going to fix that.

Oh, please! I can’t believe you said that!
We watch SP as a family and I can GUARANTEE you my kids have NEVER had discipline issues EVER.
They are accountable, though. Those two things have zero correlation! :nope:

 

[rayne89]

Oh, please! I can’t believe you said that!
We watch SP as a family and I can GUARANTEE you my kids have NEVER had discipline issues EVER.
They are accountable, though. Those two things have zero correlation! :nope:

Your children were 12, 13 & 15 if I remember correctly. Any parent that says they have never had a dicipline issue is delusional. If you mean big issues - you’ve got some time yet. Maybe they aren’t issues to you because of the standards you set, if they are pretty low you won’t have to worry about your kids not reaching them.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Martha is on the money on this one.

Our Catholic school does not paddle. In addition to all of Martha’s very well-thought reasons, our principal will not allow her faculty to dissolve into solving problems with a whack. Instead, they use their imaginations in effective discipline.

When parents teach their children in the first place and back up the staff, good things happen in children. When parents do not teach their children how to behave, and think the school is going to solve all the behavioral problems; THEN have a hissy fit at any discipline, well, all the paddling in the world isn’t going to solve it.

And besides, who wants to be the first one sued for bruising little Johnny’s bottom?

 

[Catholic90]

Your children were 12, 13 & 15 if I remember correctly. Any parent that says they have never had a dicipline issue is delusional. If you mean big issues - you’ve got some time yet. Maybe they aren’t issues to you because of the standards you set, if they are pretty low you won’t have to worry about your kids not reaching them.

You are correct on the ages.

We’ve never had issues.

We have pretty high expectations on how they treat others, the respect they show others, and grades. They attend a private Catholic high school, and we expect nothing lower than Bs. They know if grades fall, public school is where they will go. They have no desire to go there. One has never earned less than an A-. Two of the three have earned commendations on both behavior and leadership. (The other one is too young to have been nominated for this yet, but he is doing more at his age than his brothers ever did). One is the president of his grade’s student council and just oversaw raising tens of thousands of dollars for a local homeless shelter.

Our home is where my high schooler hangs out with his friends. His friends’ parents call us to find out what is going on with their kids, because the kids will talk to us. I can guarantee we know more about my sons’ friends personal issues, because they will confide in us and seek advice from us.

I sincerely doubt I have anything to worry about! We are doing most things right. Our kids are living proof of that! They are kind, compassionate, passionate, dedicated, committed, and FUN.

Thanks for your kind concern. I appreciate that you think our standards are low, having never met me or my children.

 

[rayne89]

I appreciate that you think our standards are low, having never met me or my children.

Well, since I haven’t met you. A few questions if you wouldn’t mind.
Do you teach your children sex outside of marriage is immoral? Homosexual practices are immoral? Pornography is immoral? Masturbation? Birthcontrol? Getting drunk? Do you allow your children to use foul language?

 

[marci]

I am surprised by most of the posts. I think that spanking (not beating) is an effective way to discipline children, especially children to young to be reasoned with.

“He who loves his son will not spare the rod…He who disciplines his son will profit by him” Sirach 30:1-2
CCC 2223

I know that all the ills of society cannot be blamed on the ban on corporal punishment in schools, but that does not mean it hasn’t been a contributing factor. I think that more to the point, the lack of discipline at home is the problem. This then spreads to all facets of society.

 

[siamesecat]

More discipline is needed, but parents need to establish respect through rationality, not fear. I respect my parents because most of the rules they make and views they hold make sense when they explain them to me, and they lead respectable lives in most areas. If they hit me, I’d feel scared and resentful. Hitting doesn’t fix the problem, it just makes kids afraid to act on it. Most behavioral problems need to be dealt with in a much more intelligent way.

 

[Catholic90]

Well, since I haven’t met you. A few questions if you wouldn’t mind.
Do you teach your children sex outside of marriage is immoral? Yes. (DH and I waited until marriage, and they are aware of this). Homosexual practices are immoral? **Yes. **Pornography is immoral? **Yes. **Masturbation? **Yes. **Birthcontrol? **Yes. **Getting drunk? **Yes. (although drinking in and of itself in a LEGAL situation is not wrong. They must wait until 21.) **Do you allow your children to use foul language? No. (their friends try to, but know better than to try it at our house. )(

 

[BLB_Oregon]

And besides, who wants to be the first one sued for bruising little Johnny’s bottom?

Let us not forget that there are people still alive who will have nothing to do with the Church because the sisters who were their teachers administered corporal punishment that the then students perceived then and still perceive as cruel.

IOW, there is more at stake here than lawsuits. How many people find it difficult to believe in a loving God who imposes logical consequences when the people in authority in their lives decide to whack first and ask questions later? How many people want nothing to do with school because school means getting hit? That is how it too often was.

How many parents do you know who will admit that they have spanked out of frustration instead of out of a consistent code of discipline? How much harder might it be to be consistent with a pack of children who are not even your own and who have been brought up with every different parenting system in the world, including essentially none, because their parents’ jobs or addictions have rendered them absent?

 

[rayne89]

Yes. (DH and I waited until marriage, and they are aware of this). Homosexual practices are immoral? **Yes. **Pornography is immoral? **Yes. **Masturbation? **Yes. **Birthcontrol? **Yes. **Getting drunk? **Yes. (although drinking in and of itself in a LEGAL situation is not wrong. They must wait until 21.) **Do you allow your children to use foul language? No. (their friends try to, but know better than to try it at our house. )(

Great!

What I don’t understand is that you think it’s ok for you kids to watch shows that contradict everything that you believe in. Southpark is unbelievable vulgar. They make fun of God, they degrade the Virgin Mary, they talk about pornography like all kids look at it. They refer to one of the character’s mother as a crack whore and a dirty slut. This is funny to you? What does this teach your children?

 

[Catholic90]

Great!

What does this teach your children?

Not everything we watch is educational or meant to teach.

Some is just to relax and have FUN together. (And, boy, do we laugh in our house!).

We have always been slightly weird, if I may say so. When my kids were little and ask what was for lunch, I would say “spider tails and frog noses” or “Carrot ears and corn legs”. What can I say? We are strange! But we laugh!!

 

[St_John]

I’ve never watched SouthPark, but I think it’s pretty off topic, if you don’t mind. Maybe start a thread elsewhere about it.

BLB Oregon makes some good points, you’re right that there was abuse of corporal punishment that turned people off to the Church. I guess I was more thinking of when I went to school, it was a rare event for anyone to get the paddle. It never happened in the classroom on the spur of the moment, like you hear that the nuns did.

When I was in school boys got sent to the office for very serious offenses and had to face the principal, who on rare occasion, for the repeat offenders, gave them the paddle. Only the principal could do it.

 

[Damascus]

I’ve never watched SouthPark, but I think it’s pretty off topic, if you don’t mind. Maybe start a thread elsewhere about it.

BLB Oregon makes some good points, you’re right that there was abuse of corporal punishment that turned people off to the Church. I guess I was more thinking of when I went to school, it was a rare event for anyone to get the paddle. It never happened in the classroom on the spur of the moment, like you hear that the nuns did.

When I was in school boys got sent to the office for very serious offenses and had to face the principal, who on rare occasion, for the repeat offenders, gave them the paddle. Only the principal could do it.

My spouse grew up in Catholic Schools (back in the day when there were nuns as teachers) and punishment was severe by todays standards.
Bottom line? Looking back, no ill effects came of it. In fact, a big thumbs up for it. I would not know. I was a heathen. Yet, my parents spanked me up to age 6 only in severe cases of misbehavior. And guess what? I think it helped me. I never felt abused, only loved. And I realized that I could have run the show if they did not stop me. Sometimes reason works, but before the age of reason kicks in, you need something else. Not abuse mind you, but sometimes for some kids, it takes a paddle on the butt.

 

[Ianjo99]

I agree, bringing back the paddle wouldn’t be the simple solution to all the ills of the schools. So much else has changed since the 60’s, such as breakdown of the family, illegitimacy rates approaching 40%, liberal attitudes towards discipline, increased drug abuse among parents, welfare state enabling bad behavior, repressing religion in the public arena, the list goes on and on.

Back in the older times kids behaved better, and none of them were medicated for ADHD. They were able to better control the disruptive kids without using drugs. The reason they want them medicated these days is because they have no other recourse. I sympathize with the teachers. We keep pouring money into the schools, bringing in more counselors, putting kids on drugs. I do think the schools need to get back to the basics, and the paddle could be part of that plan. But, I don’t see it happening, there are too many lawyers out there, and the public thinks they are all victims and want to be compensated.

Umm, what? If any person (as someone else said) spanked or touched my child in any way, I would personally see that person fired. Physical beating only results in doing something because of the fear of getting caught.

Anyway, I think you might have a slightly idealized view on the 1960’s life. Every generation has it’s flaws, but I don’t think that a step backwards has ever historically produced results. Perhaps drugs aren’t the answer, but neither is a whack on the butt every time someone misbehaves.