Bring Your Own Bell/Genl Washing of Feet

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tired
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry, I hit reply instead of edit and accidentally got another post. Perhaps the moderator will be kind enought to delete this.
 
40.png
jbuck919:
And you are looking at something you take for granted because it has been standard for so many years and assuming it is a good thing.

The individual cantor is a matter of convenience in Catholic worship because if you did not have it as an individual “ministry,” there would be no one singing at all, and small wonder considering the ghastly state of vernacular hymnody. No such office existed before we were supposed to sing spontaneously announced “hymns” out of a missalette or now one of the modern Catholic “hymnals” to the tune of a very loud, amplified voice drowning out the fact that nobody is singling along anyway.

Cantors are a cop-out for not having a choir to lead the singing, as is proper. It is common even in parishes with 5000 families of record to have maybe a folk group or contemporary group or whatever they call it these days but no serious choir. That is scandalous.

(I am aware that the term “cantor” is not a new invention and that such a figure, often called a “precentor” is still key in many monastic services, to take one example. That is quite a different story.)
Click to expand...
Another good post!
 
40.png
Tired:
I don’t know if it’s a liturgical abuse (it’s likely a liturgical delict), but no matter how you slice it, it’s far from orthodox.
Click to expand...
If you reread my prior post, I refered explicitly to a “foot-washing service” which is not a part of mass, nor even on Holy Thursday, so I don’t really think your comment makes sense.

A quote from Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university: “In other circumstances, such as retreats or so called para-liturgical services, it can be perfectly legitimate to perform foot-washing rites inspired by Christ’s example and by the liturgy. In such cases none of the limitations imposed by the concrete liturgical context of the Holy Thursday Mass need apply.” zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=86762
 
40.png
jbuck919:
Cantors are a cop-out for not having a choir to lead the singing, as is proper. It is common even in parishes with 5000 families of record to have maybe a folk group or contemporary group or whatever they call it these days but no serious choir. That is scandalous.
Click to expand...
Sorry that your personal experience with cantors is so awful. I agree that they need to back off the microphone and let people sing, no doubt about that.

But you tie everything together in one giant ball of liturgical hubris…cantors…polyphony…

Cantors are a proper thing to have at mass when properly trained. Polyphony that wasn’t written by Mozart is appropriate as well.
 
40.png
frommi:
Sorry that your personal experience with cantors is so awful.
Click to expand...
The “awful” experience so common I cannot help but wonder that you post some of these things. It is hardly an “personal experience” that is limited as that phrase would generally imply.
 
40.png
johnnykins:
The “awful” experience so common I cannot help but wonder that you post some of these things. It is hardly an “personal experience” that is limited as that phrase would generally imply.
Click to expand...
Because these are (after all) personal opinions about a ministry being executed inappropriately.

Cantors are valuable in many instances during the Catholic celebration of mass.

You call it awful…I may not render it as such…thats what makes it personal.

The harshness towards cantors is often just a backdoor method to push again for a restoration of copious amounts of chant in the mass.
 
40.png
catherine951:
this is something I’m worried about this year I will be attending Holy Thursday (out of town) mass and I know that the parish I will have to attend at “washes each others hands” as I 'm visiting relatives I will be with them there that night. I don’t know what to do?
Click to expand...
Don’t worry, just don’t join in. I know myself when I go to my mother-in-laws parish which is very seldom because they are abuse liturgy. I never join into things that don’t seem correct. Washing each other hands on Holy Thursday is simply just wrong. Keep your hands in your pockets. I know I would and I would keep them in my pockets during the Our Father too.
 
My, Oh, My! So many Liturgical Lawyers all in one place. Sounds like protestants interpreting the Bible.

But in a nut shell, I think NeelyAnn has the best comments on this subject.
 
40.png
Trident59:
My, Oh, My! So many Liturgical Lawyers all in one place. Sounds like protestants interpreting the Bible.

But in a nut shell, I think NeelyAnn has the best comments on this subject.
Click to expand...
I’m not a liturgical lawyer nor do I play one here on CAF. I just know what don’t seem right during mass usually is not right.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
I take it you are not in the diocese of Charlotte!
Click to expand...
I’d bet you’re right about that, Br. Rich. I am happy to belong to this great, faithful diocese… after living in a modern, progressive diocese in South Florida. What a difference…!
 
40.png
frommi:
The harshness towards cantors is often just a backdoor method to push again for a restoration of copious amounts of chant in the mass.
Click to expand...
No, the “harshness” (some would prefer the truthfulness about the cantors) toward cantors is part of the action to restore some semblance of sanctity in the liturgy in face of the inanities of the last 40 years. Chant may well be the answer - but the elimination of the “showtime” aspects of the liturgy certainly is a necessary start - and that includes the cantors.
 
40.png
johnnykins:
No, the “harshness” (some would prefer the truthfulness about the cantors) toward cantors is part of the action to restore some semblance of sanctity in the liturgy in face of the inanities of the last 40 years. Chant may well be the answer - but the elimination of the “showtime” aspects of the liturgy certainly is a necessary start - and that includes the cantors.
Click to expand...
It’s not showtime to have a cantor for heaven’s sake…you just don’t like it…

That’s your opinion on a pastoral practice…your desire to have some kind of “solemn authentic orthodox sanctimonious” mass all weeks at all times is indicative of that.

We need reverence in the liturgy…and we need to learn better how to pray together and focus on the important things…but a well trained cantor can do wonders for a less than spirt filled liturgy.
 
40.png
frommi:
It’s not showtime to have a cantor for heaven’s sake…you just don’t like it…
Click to expand...
Actually it’s almost always “showtime”
That’s your opinion on a pastoral practice…your desire to have some kind of “solemn authentic orthodox sanctimonious” mass all weeks at all times is indicative of that.
Click to expand...
Would be nice to have a “solemn authentic orthodox” Mass - yes. You are the one tending toward “santimonious” by always claiming you can decide, based on culture, etc., to do what you want at Mass.
 
40.png
frommi:
That’s your opinion on a pastoral practice…your desire to have some kind of “solemn authentic orthodox sanctimonious” mass all weeks at all times is indicative of that.
Click to expand...
BTW why would you presume that a “solemn authentic orthodox” Mass is sanctimonious? That may be your problem right there. You do not believe that Mass should be authentic or orthodox or solemn. I guess you prefer heterodox, made up at your whim and a real gangbuster party? And you wonder why people are upset?
 
Frommi take a look at the “Video of Liturgical Dancers” and the “I walked out of church today” threads. Those’ll give you some idea what all the complaining is about. Unfortunately those travesties are not terribly unusual. But I guess you’re OK with them as they reflect the culture - culture of what is the question.
 
Please continue to address post content eliminating presumptive judgments upon/about individual posters in the thread. We are united in faith, we vary in practice, yet we all belong to the Lord.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top