Bringing Back Difficulty to get an Annulment

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Father bites his tongue to prevent Todd & Tina from going down to Holy Roller Chapel, or the county courthouse… and what good has that been accomplishing?
I think the one good would be that if and when they fall they will not feel alienated from where the true answers lay.

All this talk reminds me of the fall of the Roman empire and how it was preceeded with decadance. Let us be ready.
 
What If A Catholic Wanted To Marry A Non Catholic Who Has Been Divorced.does He Have To Get An Annulment From His Church First. What If A Catholic Wanted To Marry Outside Of There Church To A Divorced Person. Does God Bless This Union. Or Should We Just Be Thankful They Got Marreid At All
You should perhaps consider clipping and pasting this set of questions in the “apologetics forum”. It might be a more appropriate place for it.

Short answer is a non-Catholic must have their previous marriage ruled to be invalid and not an impediment. Just because they are not Catholic, does not mean they are not someone else’s wife or husband. A Catholic cannot marry someone else’s wife or husband…
 
I think the one good would be that if and when they fall they will not feel alienated from where the true answers lay.

All this talk reminds me of the fall of the Roman empire and how it was preceeded with decadance. Let us be ready.
You have a good point… so long as the catechesis is there. My cousin “Sue” married another lapsed Catholic at the courthouse… and now is convinced that because she is divorced, she cannot go to a Catholic Church.

I have been trying to explain that she was never married in the eyes of the Catholic Church, and she is one good confession away from returning to Catholic sacramental life - up to and including a real marriage this time around.
 
What If A Catholic Wanted To Marry A Non Catholic Who Has Been Divorced.does He Have To Get An Annulment From His Church First. What If A Catholic Wanted To Marry Outside Of There Church To A Divorced Person. Does God Bless This Union. Or Should We Just Be Thankful They Got Marreid At All
If a Catholic wanted to marry a non-Catholic who has been divorced, the divorced spouse would need to go through the annulment process before he/she would be free to marry.

To get married outside of the Church to a divorced person could be committing adultery as the divorced person may not be free to remarry.

We should not be thankful of compounding one mistake with another. Christ must be at the center of marriage.

Peace.
 
You have a good point… so long as the catechesis is there. My cousin “Sue” married another lapsed Catholic at the courthouse… and now is convinced that because she is divorced, she cannot go to a Catholic Church.

I have been trying to explain that she was never married in the eyes of the Catholic Church, and she is one good confession away from returning to Catholic sacramental life - up to and including a real marriage this time around.
Though she is out of communion she is still welcome at the Church. Maybe just getting her there in the presance of Christ is the first hurdle. We can always invite and whose to say how she may be moved once there.

This brings to mind a good booklet I have seen entitled “Confession for the reluctant.”

Peace.
 
What if a couple already invalidly ‘married’ comes to realize that they did not have the psychological maturity to become married, and still do not have the psychological maturity to convalidate the marriage. Are they required to live apart and abstain from the marital act? What if they have kids, can the parents live together chastely until they mature enough to convalidate?
 
What if a couple already invalidly ‘married’ comes to realize that they did not have the psychological maturity to become married, and still do not have the psychological maturity to convalidate the marriage. Are they required to live apart and abstain from the marital act? What if they have kids, can the parents live together chastely until they mature enough to convalidate?
It’s nonsense, isn’t it?
Annullment is only considered after a divorce, for this reason. But it is terrible sin to get a divorce if you are in fact validly married. So the non-validly married, non-divorced person is in an extremely difficult position.
 
What if a couple already invalidly ‘married’ comes to realize that they did not have the psychological maturity to become married, and still do not have the psychological maturity to convalidate the marriage. Are they required to live apart and abstain from the marital act? What if they have kids, can the parents live together chastely until they mature enough to convalidate?
If they realize the weren’t mature enough that in itself is noteworthy that they are now maturing.

There is always redemption in Christ. It would be efficatious for them to abstain from the marrital act to devote themselves to the Lord in prayer and study for guidance.

Yes they can live chastely as brother and sister until they convalidate. It could also be efficatious to seek joint spiritual counceling for help as it won’t be easy to determine what that means to live as brother and sister.

Here is a good resource:
exceptionalmarriages.com/

Peace and my prayers are with your intention.
 
It’s nonsense, isn’t it?
Annullment is only considered after a divorce, for this reason. But it is terrible sin to get a divorce if you are in fact validly married. So the non-validly married, non-divorced person is in an extremely difficult position.
Its not nonsense as this is the plight of many.

Annulment isn’t the question here but of how to get right with Gods will.

Your right, its an extremely difficult position but all things are possible with God.

Peace.
 
Thank you for the web page. I’ve heard that most of the annulments granted by the American tribunals, when sent to Rome, are overturned. It’s all very disconcerting 😦
No, you have misunderstood something. The only reason it would go to Rome is if there were a tie vote at the local level. Rome always sides with the marriage in the case of a tie - but there was never a Declaration of Nullity in place, yet, at the time, so it’s not that they are “overturning” anything - it’s that there was a tie vote, and Rome always sides with the marriage, unless there is something really obvious that the local Tribunal overlooked (this is extremely unlikely, in most cases).
 
No, you have misunderstood something. The only reason it would go to Rome is if there were a tie vote at the local level. Rome always sides with the marriage in the case of a tie - but there was never a Declaration of Nullity in place, yet, at the time, so it’s not that they are “overturning” anything - it’s that there was a tie vote, and Rome always sides with the marriage, unless there is something really obvious that the local Tribunal overlooked (this is extremely unlikely, in most cases).
I think there can also be an appeal where one party who feels there was a valid marriage is contesting.

The statistic from the last year book is that the Rota sides with the marriage about 90% of the time so that would mean they do grant the annulment the other 10%.

Peace.
 
Regarding the posts saying that people don’t have a clue regarding the nature of marriage: how stupid can a person be to not understand what “for as long as you both shall live” means? Such a person would have to be so dense that they bend and swallow up light whenthey enter a room.
Someone growing up in a dysfunctional home where the parents’ marriage ended in divorce might not have the formative experiences that are required in order to be able to understand what marriage is all about - again, not because they don’t want to, or intend to, but simply because they lack the ability to know this - they didn’t have the formative experiences that lay the foundation for that kind of knowledge.
What family today is 100% functional?

I personally think that a lot of the products of these “dysfunctional” homes might be more ready for marriage, since they have seen how NOT to act.

Besides, I think that it would be a great “line in the sand” in showing that marriage is permanent if we adopted a “tough luck, you bought the farm, grow up and work it out approach”.
 
Would you say that their ignorance of their inability to become married (at that time) is vincible or invincible?
Tough question. A large amount of the ignorance that I had at the time was invincible. But, I had done many culpable sins in my life, and sin leads to hardness of heart, and I probably did have some hardness of heart lingering, even if at the time I wasn’t doing anything directly to promote it. IF I hadn’t done all those sins, perhaps my heart would have been more tender, and I might have read subtle discrepancies that passed me by in my sorry state. I was actively trying at the time of my marriage to cooperate with pre-cana and do what they asked. I wasn’t aware of refusing to do what they asked me to do. In fact, I managed to be aware of needing to do more than they asked me to do. I just had no idea how vastly more that happened to be.
Do they have a responsibility to go though, say, the type of investigation done during an initial annulment investigation, and if found to be immature, to wait a few years?
I think people have a grave responsibility to prepare for marriage and to investigate their vocation. I don’t think that requires the type of investigation that an annulment requires. Rather, it requires things like refraining from dating until it is appropriate, developing chaste friendships, living a life of caring (or sacrificing) for others (like maybe your younger siblings), building your character, actively discerning your vocation (and being aware that there is a choice besides priest or married, that single is an option), pursing virtues and habits suitable to your vocation, studying the faith, etc.

Also, a man has a responsibility to wait until he is ready to marry. He ought to wait a few years if he is not.
 
What if a couple already invalidly ‘married’ comes to realize that they did not have the psychological maturity to become married, and still do not have the psychological maturity to convalidate the marriage. Are they required to live apart and abstain from the marital act?
I’m not quite ready to say “yes” to this question. I think it might depend on the level of certainty they have. If you find out your wife is keeping a string of previous husbands in other states and your marriage was illegal bigamy, then you are certain enough that you are invalidly married that you need to abstain and go talk to a priest and find out what to do next. At least, that’s what I’d imagine. I haven’t seen a document saying this.

But if you just think one of you was emotionally immature at the time of the marriage and that person still seems immature, this is different. I’d not refuse to render the marital duty on the day this thought crosses my mind. This is too subjective. I’d imagine it has crossed the minds of many, many people at one time or another.

Then, there is somewhere in the shadow lands. Somewhere in between. The Church has not advertised this problem at all. I’d assume based on historic practice that they want to you work it out over time and come to consent with time, staying in the context of marriage. But it probably depends on where you are exactly on that continuum. It is a very hard place to be.
 
Would you say that their ignorance of their inability to become married (at that time) is vincible or invincible?
This is difficult to say without knowing alot more info. I assume they are both baptized and want to make things right so I would tend to think vincible.
Do they have a responsibility to go though, say, the type of investigation done during an initial annulment investigation, and if found to be immature, to wait a few years?
There are annulments that are dispensory in a manner of speaking. Such as for lack of canonical form. In such cases the process is not as in depth. They could find this out by presenting themselves to their priest.

Peace.
 
The difference is that a contract is enforceable only in so far as the other person keeps his side of the bargain. If I swap potatoes for carrots, and no bags of carrots arrive, I would normally be expected to take my potatoes back home.

A covenant is binding regardless of whether the other person keeps his side. Covenants are rare, but we do sometimes make them. I hold one currently with my research grant - the money is provided on the understanding that it will be used for research, but there are no formal conditions to fulfil.

Marriage is a covenant. So too is gambling - in Britain debts owed to you by a bookmaker are binding in honour only. It is nothing to do with the amount of self interest or even moral value of the arrangement.
Please go back again and read what I wrote. I do not disagree with the Church’s postion that all marriages are valid until proven invalid. But if it is invalid, there is no covenant.

A covenant is binding only if both parties were bound. If there is an inability ot form the requisite intent, then there is no covenant, and neither are bound.

If there has not been a tribunal decision of nullity, then and until such time as one would make a decision, both are bound in conscience. Factually, it may be that ther3e is an issue that if a tribunal were to review would cause a decree of nullity, but the party who does not bring it to a tribunal is still bound unless and until that is done.

No one is required to bring a marriage issue to a tribunal. One is free to not bring their marriage to the tribunal when it is clear that there is grounds; and that is a personal choice of the individual. I do not choose to get into issues of what is or is not God’s will in the circumstances, as that is not my business; but neither is it necessarily true that staying out of the tribunal is of necessity God’s will. Each person has to make that decision for themselves.

So, a covenant is binding if there is in fact a covenenat. The Church presumes that there is a covenant until such time as a tribunal says otherwise, but simply saying “I do” in front of a priest does not necessarily make a covenant.
 
I think it is going to take a lot more than just improving marriage prep. Education of what family is starts at birth and is continuing through their life up to the time they approach the Church for marriage and start the prep classes. If they have never had models of self-giving in their lives, they are going to have a hard time learining to be selfless; and an even harder time believing that anyone else they meet could do so also. In a world that preaches the value and right to an orgasm anywhere with anyone, a world in which it is presumed among teenagers that they will be sleeping with someone, a world of “friends with benefits” and of casual sex via “hooking up”, it is going to be something short of a miracle if many at all get to the marriage prep class with any idea whatsoever of what the Church teaches.

Marriage prep doesn’t start with the first meeting with the priest. It starts when the child comes home from the hospital after birth.
I agree that marriage prep cannot teach all that is needed for a good marriage. But I suspect that some weddings might not happen, or might be postponed, if Church marriage prep was more rigorous.
 
It’s nonsense, isn’t it?
Annullment is only considered after a divorce, for this reason. **But it is terrible sin to get a divorce if you are in fact validly married. **So the non-validly married, non-divorced person is in an extremely difficult position.
This is painting with too broad a brush. The Church does in fact allow separation (i.e. civil divorce) for rather common reasons.

It would be sinful to remarry after a civil divorce, without first having a Tribunal look into the vailidity of the marriage.
 
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