Britain to legalize gay marriage!

[tskrobacz]

We thank you Father for the great gift of same sex attraction in our world. May the struggles of those are are rejected by society teach us compassion, and awaken in the world your will for us to love and forgive each other as Jesus taught. Open our hearts that we may lovingly step into “the house of the Leper”, as Jesus did in Bethany, that we too may heal and be healed from all that is not of your will. Open our eyes and ears that we may understand and have the courage to act on your will especially wherever we meet injustice in our world. Amen

 

[laceteacup7]

Personally, I think the institution of ‘marriage’ has been spat on and defiled many a time. Allowing homosexuals to marry, in my view, isn’t going to make it any worse. The divorce rate amongst heterosexual marriages is far too staggering for us to be pointing fingers at homosexuals.

Although I don’t agree with same-sex marriage, there have been some exceedingly damaging hetero marriages around in our time.

In my humble opinion though, I think we should be more worried about the innocent Coptic Christians in Egypt being killed by fundamentalist Islamic loons. Some people are being run over by tanks for their religion and we’re here worrying about same-sex marriages being legalised. I think the wellbeing of these people and their religious freedom is much more important.

 

[Condor1986]

Personally, I think the institution of ‘marriage’ has been spat on and defiled many a time. Allowing homosexuals to marry, in my view, isn’t going to make it any worse. The divorce rate amongst heterosexual marriages is far too staggering for us to be pointing fingers at homosexuals.

Although I don’t agree with same-sex marriage, there have been some exceedingly damaging hetero marriages around in our time.

In my humble opinion though, I think we should be more worried about the innocent Coptic Christians in Egypt being killed by fundamentalist Islamic loons. Some people are being run over by tanks for their religion and we’re here worrying about same-sex marriages being legalised. I think the wellbeing of these people and their religious freedom is much more important.

I agree we should pray for the Coptic Christians in Egypt. I will be interested in any way we can help them.

I think your point about the way marriage is defiled, is the issue. Why should the government which it wanted to fix “broken society” be sending this message? I do not think we should surrender on this, in America the silent majority managed to put Christian values back on the map in the 1980s and they have saved many marriages, many babies lives, many families, so why not to do the same in other countries? At first many people thought they were crazy and many of the silent majority had surrendered, but they managed with their faith to win.

I still want to make sure that the society my future children will have is better than this one and I beleive we can make one without 50% divorce rate, without abortion, without gay marriage, with a strong and well-attended church. There was a poll here showing the majority of young people want traditional values, sorry if you are not optimistic but I still am, and I hope one day you will feel optimistic again.

 

[Santi2]

Any ethics which do not conflict with burning people alive for their religious activities are wrong.

Conscientious objection usually involves a refusal to undertake the activity involved in its entirely, for example, refusing to join the army. True conscientious objectors do not say: “God tells me not to do this and I put him first, so keep paying me while I refuse to do my job, or I will take you to court.” Come to think of it, that is what Thomas More did, wasn’t it - cooperating as a cafeteria Chancellor with some of what his despotic king wanted, but not all.

Conscientious objection is not limited to military use. Its scope applies as well to education, medicine, employment, etc. where a potential conflict with moral and religious beliefs is foreseen as a consequence of legislation and laws are drafted to give effect to safeguards of the individual’s freedom to manifest his religion and beliefs…even the lack thereof.

As to your reference on true conscientious objectors, St Thomas More lost his head. The parties in the case laws I provided in a previous post lost their jobs and potential income. So, not quite the frivolous claim to conscientious objection as you state.

Further to St Thomas More, he has been infallibly declared a saint by the Catholic Church despite burning heretics and, one only demonstrates a lack of comprehension for the processes of canonization of Catholic saints with statements which questions the Church’s authority for having done so. For many Catholics, St. Thomas More exemplifies extraordinary virtue and courage. And it will remain endorsed by the Catholic Church despite attempts by those outside of it to mock the man and the Church.

 

[paperwight66]

. Nevertheless forcing catholic churches to conduct same sex marriages? Very depressed. Maranatha!

Are you sure this will be so? Not according to my reading it won’t be.

I don’y see how it can, anyway.

What makes you say this?

 

[Santi2]

In my humble opinion though, I think we should be more worried about the innocent Coptic Christians in Egypt being killed by fundamentalist Islamic loons. Some people are being run over by tanks for their religion and we’re here worrying about same-sex marriages being legalised. I think the wellbeing of these people and their religious freedom is much more important.

Whilst I have sympathy for the Coptic Christians in Egypt, you pose a situation similar to that of a man caught in a moral predicament as to which of the two drowning victims he can, or should, save.

If marriage is redefined to include same sex couples, the legal standard will be one promoted in all our schools. That is the implication we face in the UK. So, if the “worry” becomes a matter between the plight of Coptic Christians in Egypt or our children, the choice is elementary.

 

[Mudgely]

Progress relative to what?

There has been a steady expansion of the notion of “civil rights” over the past two centuries. This is the next logical step in the women’s rights movement which fought to remove procreation from the definition of marriage, and which fought to remove the idea that each partner had a specific gender roles in marriage. So, it is progress in the legal process which began some time ago. Whether one would say it began with the expansion of the ideas of property ownership and the vote, or with the abolition of slavery, or with the women’s suffrage movement is open to debate, but it seems to be the logical consequence of that broad sweep.

 

[Hokomai]

Further to St Thomas More, he has been infallibly declared a saint by the Catholic Church despite burning heretics and, one only demonstrates a lack of comprehension for the processes of canonization of Catholic saints with statements which questions the Church’s authority for having done so. For many Catholics, St. Thomas More exemplifies extraordinary virtue and courage. And it will remain endorsed by the Catholic Church despite attempts by those outside of it to mock the man and the Church.

I accept he was courageous, but one does not need to be good to have courage. I cannot accept that burning people for their beliefs could ever be considered virtuous. I hope this was not one of his actions which led to his canonisation. I have not mocked the man or the Church. I have condemned his evil actions, and the Church, to the extent to which it does not clearly condemn these actions. I do not question the authority of the Church to state what it likes about whether of not anyone is in heaven. Personally, I see no reason to think anyone is, but I have not challenged the right of the Church to think otherwise and say so.

 

[anp1215]

Personally, I think the institution of ‘marriage’ has been spat on and defiled many a time. Allowing homosexuals to marry, in my view, isn’t going to make it any worse. The divorce rate amongst heterosexual marriages is far too staggering for us to be pointing fingers at homosexuals.

Although I don’t agree with same-sex marriage, there have been some exceedingly damaging hetero marriages around in our time.

In my humble opinion though, I think we should be more worried about the innocent Coptic Christians in Egypt being killed by fundamentalist Islamic loons. Some people are being run over by tanks for their religion and we’re here worrying about same-sex marriages being legalised. I think the wellbeing of these people and their religious freedom is much more important.

This is sort of how I feel too.

 

[Laughing_Crow]

Not to long ago, on a net image board I saw a post that basically summed up the entire ‘gay marriage’ act for me.

“So gays can get married but im not able to marry multiple girls? F*** this gay Earth”

If actually heard a few people trying to set up protests in the shape of “If gays can marry, then I should be allowed to marry [insert random object/person here]”. I even saw one where a guy and his sister are trying to marry, asking why their ‘love’ is ignored yet the gays can openly marry one another. If that is legit then

Personally I dont see WHY gays need to get married, they are recognized as Defacto if they meet the criteria for it.

Also, recently in the state of Tasmania gay marriage is about to be (or is already) the first Australian state to legalize gay marriage. The thing is, now a debate has sprung up as legally if a gay couple gets married in Taz, if they move to another state then their marriage isnt recognized by law.

Finally, about the muslims killing christians in Egypt, im gonna say what I have been sayign about every other foreign issue of late. “Fix your own country, then fix the world” Worry about problems at home before you worry about another country.

 

[anp1215]

Not to long ago, on a net image board I saw a post that basically summed up the entire ‘gay marriage’ act for me.

“So gays can get married but im not able to marry multiple girls? F*** this gay Earth”

If actually heard a few people trying to set up protests in the shape of “If gays can marry, then I should be allowed to marry [insert random object/person here]”. I even saw one where a guy and his sister are trying to marry, asking why their ‘love’ is ignored yet the gays can openly marry one another. If that is legit then

Personally I dont see WHY gays need to get married, they are recognized as Defacto if they meet the criteria for it.

Also, recently in the state of Tasmania gay marriage is about to be (or is already) the first Australian state to legalize gay marriage. The thing is, now a debate has sprung up as legally if a gay couple gets married in Taz, if they move to another state then their marriage isnt recognized by law.

Finally, about the muslims killing christians in Egypt, im gonna say what I have been sayign about every other foreign issue of late. “Fix your own country, then fix the world” Worry about problems at home before you worry about another country.

We’re Catholics first, Americans (or whatever nationality) second. We can (and should) worry and pray about problems here and overseas.

 

[CapeWind]

I am quite disappointed at the comments that I have read here, and while I do not wish to make a claim for either side (homophobia/gay rights) I must wonder if it is really Christian to “be disgusted” (and the other expletives I have read)? The definition of the words used here mostly suggest that a civil action by a particular government has excited loathing/ extreme contempt among believers. Can loathing or contempt be reconcilled with the unconditional love we are required to show if we follow Him? After all didn’t Jesus himself warn us not to judge!

Perhaps I could ask posters to this site to re-read Philippians 2:12 “So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absense, work out YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling”. If homosexuality is a sin, do posters not trust that God will repay? Why then the disgust and loathing?

 

[Santi2]

I am quite disappointed at the comments that I have read here, and while I do not wish to make a claim for either side (homophobia/gay rights) I must wonder if it is really Christian to “be disgusted” (and the other expletives I have read)? The definition of the words used here mostly suggest that a civil action by a particular government has excited loathing/ extreme contempt among believers. Can loathing or contempt be reconcilled with the unconditional love we are required to show if we follow Him? After all didn’t Jesus himself warn us not to judge!

Perhaps I could ask posters to this site to re-read Philippians 2:12 “So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absense, work out YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling”. If homosexuality is a sin, do posters not trust that God will repay? Why then the disgust and loathing?

**CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS
TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION
TO UNIONS
BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS**
…
Where the government’s policy is de facto tolerance and there is no explicit legal recognition of homosexual unions, it is necessary to distinguish carefully the various aspects of the problem. Moral conscience requires that, in every occasion, Christians give witness to the whole moral truth, which is contradicted both by approval of homosexual acts and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. Therefore, discreet and prudent actions can be effective; these might involve: unmasking the way in which such tolerance might be exploited or used in the service of ideology; stating clearly the immoral nature of these unions; reminding the government of the need to contain the phenomenon within certain limits so as to safeguard public morality and, above all, to avoid exposing young people to erroneous ideas about sexuality and marriage that would deprive them of their necessary defences and contribute to the spread of the phenomenon. Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimization of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil.

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
…

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[CapeWind]

Wow is that God’s rottweiler I still hear barking?

 

[John_of_Woking]

No. Show some respect to your Holy Father

 

[Nec5]

I am quite disappointed at the comments that I have read here, and while I do not wish to make a claim for either side (homophobia/gay rights) I must wonder if it is really Christian to “be disgusted” (and the other expletives I have read)? The definition of the words used here mostly suggest that a civil action by a particular government has excited loathing/ extreme contempt among believers. Can loathing or contempt be reconcilled with the unconditional love we are required to show if we follow Him? After all didn’t Jesus himself warn us not to judge!

Perhaps I could ask posters to this site to re-read Philippians 2:12 “So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absense, work out YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling”. If homosexuality is a sin, do posters not trust that God will repay? Why then the disgust and loathing?

Since you’re cherry picking Bible quotes, why don’t you grab Paul’s condemnations of various acts(i.e. homosexuality) as well as Christ’s discussion of how to treat unrepentant sinners in the church (and how often to forgive them when they ask for it). And then you can quote Christ’s discussion of “judge justly”. Or you can continue to cherry pick.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Since you’re cherry picking Bible quotes, why don’t you grab Paul’s condemnations of various acts(i.e. homosexuality) as well as Christ’s discussion of how to treat unrepentant sinners in the church (and how often to forgive them when they ask for it). And then you can quote Christ’s discussion of “judge justly”. Or you can continue to cherry pick.

If we’re going to talk about cherry picking, why is it that we love to quote the quote from Lev about homosexuality as the law, yet ignore other laws laid down in Lev? We still allow short-sighted people to approach the altar, for example, and we no longer think that lashing a teenager for disobediance is acceptable. It’s something I find intriguing.

Also, I would just like to politely point out that you are cherry picking just as much as they are, for want of a better term. It just so happens that they picked quotes you don’t agree with.

 

[anp1215]

If we’re going to talk about cherry picking, why is it that we love to quote the quote from Lev about homosexuality as the law, yet ignore other laws laid down in Lev? We still allow short-sighted people to approach the altar, for example, and we no longer think that lashing a teenager for disobediance is acceptable. It’s something I find intriguing.

Also, I would just like to politely point out that you are cherry picking just as much as they are, for want of a better term. It just so happens that they picked quotes you don’t agree with.

Nec5 didn’t mention anything from Leviticus, you did.

 

[Nec5]

If we’re going to talk about cherry picking, why is it that we love to quote the quote from Lev about homosexuality as the law, yet ignore other laws laid down in Lev? We still allow short-sighted people to approach the altar, for example, and we no longer think that lashing a teenager for disobediance is acceptable. It’s something I find intriguing.

Also, I would just like to politely point out that you are cherry picking just as much as they are, for want of a better term. It just so happens that they picked quotes you don’t agree with.

Hardly. I didn’t even mention Leviticus. I also referenced the quote about always having to forgive which served to balance my scriptural references rather than cherry pick.

And the Christian reflections on homosexuality in the New Testament are crystal clear. Even if you discount the mention of practicing homosexuals as referring to pederasty, there is no way to explain away Paul’s discussion of Sodom and Gomorrah and how men and men and women and women women practiced unnatural relations.

Because these beliefs match those found in the Old Testament, it is logical to assume that this is a carried over value and one not to be taken lightly. Even atheists view this as a major theme in the Bible because of its consistency, even if they do not agree with any of it.

And cherry picking as a term only applies when it misrepresents what the original author intended as is the case with virtually all “don’t judge” quotations from scripture that people use on this site. We are called to judge justly and nearly all of the New Testament’s remarks about judging refer to hypocrisy rather than forbidding all judging…

A good of example of cherry picking is if I were to quote Christ as saying, “I have come not to bring peace but the sword” as a support for seeking to kill others outright; that would be cherry picking. The quote is taken out of context and is not a clear declaration of Christ’s view of warfare. He was discussing how God’s law and the coming of his son would tear apart believers and non-believers, including family members.

Here is a fuller discussion on “judgment” and how we are called to judge justly without becoming tolerant of sin or haters of the sinner (a child of Christ).
archive.catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0702btb.asp

 

[Mar044]

marriage between a man and woman, the bible is very clear on this, if you are gay you may live your life but not under the churches acceptance, and you cannot use the church as a tool, noir can you try to attack the church until you get your way, jeus,john, and the written word of the bible is clear on what it says about people that chose to be gay or homosexual.

i accept a gay person for being human but i dont accept you being gay just as i dont accept a murderer.