Brokeback Mountain - Understanding Propaganda

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Aquarius:
How do you know gay relationships are only about sex?
Gee, what could have given anyone the idea that a homosexual defines his very being based on sex?

The truth is, a homosexual who does not act on physical lust is barely a homosexual at all in the eyes of the homosexual community.

He is made the object of belittling derision and pressure until he capitulates, gives in to desire, and becomes one of the fold. Where is his true self? It is in the closet. He is “hiding” it from society and from himself.

Never mind if his true self also happens to be committed to a life of chastity and renounces the dark, dehumanizing world of gay sex. (In fact, to have the very opinion that the world of gay sex is dark and dehumanizing is forbidden.)

Bb can show breeders weighed down with the oppressive responsibilities for having the power to bring new souls into the world. (Which is actually a very good argument for the unique and awesome power available only in a heterosexual union).

If he has yet to be initiated, he is “curious.” If he is older, then he is “closeted” and “repressed.” He is not fully himself until he caves into desire. He is denying his self image, as has been said. Apparently, this takes precedence over dying to self to please God. No sin is worse than not following self.

Never mind the undeniable fact that your body is made to fit with the opposite sex and that this fitting makes human beings – who are sacred and wonderful gifts in God’s sight.

The homosexual pats himself on the back for leaving authentic masculinity to embrace an equally inauthentic femininity. He is “advanced” because he has, in some way, both sides of the coin of the human person.

I think the Church agrees with this in principle. When you combine both the masculine and the feminine, you get something that is closer to God who is not a dichotomous either/or. Both man and woman were created in his image. (Which is a more intelligent way of stating that “Adam and Steve” quip.)

But look at the difference between the homosexual model and the heterosexual model:

In the homosexual model, the man gives up his masculinity in an attempt to grasp a greater fullness. But by doing this, he disparages authentic masculinity as being inherently insufficient. The lesbian likewise disparages authentic femininity and reaches out to the masculine. The two are like travelers passing on the same path between two opposing states.

“From where do you flee?” she asks.
“Masculine Town.” he says.
“Where are you going?”
“Feminine Town.”
“But you shouldn’t go there,” she warns, “Feminine Town is not all it’s cracked up to be!”
“What do you mean?” he says incredulous. “Nothing can be worse than Masculine Town!”
“But that’s the place I was going to!” Was her exasperated reply.

In the heterosexual model, the man embraces what he is – what he was really born to be and so the woman does likewise. When they come together, they are two positively charged yet completely compatible forces – each attracted by the fullness of the opposite represented by the partner.

The result? Life. The only time in the universe when 1+1=3. It is supernatural math. And it is the basis for human survival. A million homosexuals on an island living in accordance with their “self image” would, in 100 years’ time, become an island of bones. That same island with just two heterosexuals would become a small town in half the time.

Like it or not, heterosexual relationships are the bedrock of human existence. Without them, there is no life and without life, there are no humans. This clearly represents why such relationships deserve a place of honor and reverence in all societies (in fact, no viable society thinks anything less – all that have opposed this ideal are not even memory in the history books).

So unless you can come up with A) proof why this reverence is misplaced or even jeopardizes society, and present it with B) a logical argument demonstrating why this is the case and back it up with C) an appeal to an authority that is greater than man; nothing you say is more than shifting sand of implication.
 
Compare:
if you are raised in a society that tells you homosexuality is an abomination to God and that you will burn, especially if that society is firmly in the clutches of religious belief, it is likely that you yourself will have this belief
with
From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions
You have not addressed the validity of the society’s beliefs, but pointed to an unproven idea that people are just stupid cows playing follow the leader. Therefore, in your logic, ideas do not need to be challenged and tested as being true or false per se, but just summarily dismissed as the product of psychological forces. That is brute force.

That proves nothing, is illogical, and still avoids the issue of authority.
Secondly, not every religion has condemned homosexuality.
The ones that survived have. (longevity has its privileges – it means never having to repeat the mistakes of failures) The rest went the way of all products of the culture of death … death. I also note you fail to actually name a faith. You also use a typical homosexual appeal regarding loose attitudes regarding sex in times past as being one and the same as the values you purport to have today.

We can take ancient Japan as an example, if you like, (Asia being my area of expertise). Let’s go to a popular and old example of homosexual sex in The Tale of Genji. Right in the first chapter (I believe) Hikaru Genji takes a boy with him to bed as compensation because he failed to fornicate with the random girl of his dreams for the day.

First of all, gross. Second of all, using a same-sex partner (who is an unwilling slave, no less) as a substitution for an opposite-sex partner is no glowing endorsement of homosexuality. Third, he never marries a man. Fourth, everyone knew that same sex partnership is not a marriage or a civil union or any other turn of the phrase. Fifth, the same immoral Heian world was utterly destroyed by its own corruption, just like Nero’s Rome, just like Babylon and all other societies that embraced similar lax attitudes concerning sexual morality.
it is also clear that homosexuality has not always been seen as an abomination, or something that is self-destructive. Nor has every person who engaged in homosexual activity felt they were doing wrong.
I did not say all, I said “most.” Unless you can come up with some proof that
  1. many homosexuals in times past shared your views, and
  2. in their hearts they really thought it was right and
  3. they felt betrayed by the teachings of the religious powers of the day as unjust and bigotted,
    then there is no reason to assume what you say is true. The prevailing attitude that good homosexuals willingly died to self to please God remains completely unchallenged by your implication.
we can observe that, in the majority of instances, women have been discouraged and even barred from positions of authority throughout history. And while there are examples of matriarchial societies or women who were accepted as leaders, it was generally viewed by most that the authority of men was established in the natural order.
The issue of women’s rights (those that were rightly decided) were not settled through appeals to ancient and obscure matriarchal societies that fell into oblivion. Did anyone in the suffrage movement make pathetic appeals to the “divine feminine” or the glory of Queen Bathsheba? No. What they did do was to A) present proof of the ability of women to responsibly lead and vote, B) present it in a logical argument based on equality and C) invoke the name of God, Scriptures, and the concept of Justice supporting their views.

In this way, they were able to change society without simply trying to reverse the pecking order (unlike Mary Daly whose answer to patriarchy is supreme matriarchy).
We “sin” as you call it
As I and all other spiritual authorities. But you are not a relativist…
when we ignore reality, specifically, when we fail to see God in others, within ourselves.
I agree. But I do not believe that “seeing God in others” means others are gods. True love is looking out for the physical and spiritual well-being of the ones you love.

The issue of authority is once again skirted. Show me an authoritative source that declares unequivocally (actually I would settle for implies now) that homosexual acts are not unto eternal death.

Please understand that Heaven is real and that we want you to be there.
 
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Aquarius:
If social order was not a matter of morality, then why the death sentence?

Legacies are tough. I realize that. That’s why the Church uses that line about a lack of magesterial weight to change its moral teachings. It seems to work.

A heretic was someone who didn’t agree with the Church. The Church said he should be killed for that. Is that OK today?
Please start a new thread and I will be happy to discuss it.
 
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Aquarius:
Here’s what the Church said about Usury.

"One cannot condone the sin of usury by arguing that the gain is not great or excessive, but rather moderate or small; "

The Church said it was immoral to loan 100 pieces of gold at any interest rate. Pieces of gold have not changed. But the Church’s moral teaching did change.

Got to keep up with the times.
New thread is needed.
 
This conversation has run its course and has strayed grossly off topic. Thank you to all who have participated.
 
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