Brokeback Mountain - Understanding Propaganda

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Aquarius:
The pope exolained it very well. It was immoral to lend 100 pieces of gold and demand 105 in return. Now it is OK.
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Apparently, you have not read the entire encyclical, nor have you grasped it in continuity with all of Church teaching.
 
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Apparently, you have not read the entire encyclical, nor have you grasped it in continuity with all of Church teaching.
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Sure I read the whole thing. Once the Church said it was immoral to charge interest. Now it is OK for the Vatican to have a bank. The Church changed teaching on morality. I applaud the change. It’s a sign of intelligent leadership.
 
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StubbleSpark:
You use birth control? How sad.

You presume we use birth control? How prejudiced. Don’t bother dredging up that old statistic because it is problematic to say the least. And, like I said, prejudiced to use it as proof that the people posting here use birth control.

There was a family of six kids in pew in front of me Sunday. A family of six kids to my right. And four kids behind me.

Long live the resistance!
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When the enemy denies he is defeating himself from within, the only thing we need to do is encourage him.
 
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Aquarius:
Sure I read the whole thing. Once the Church said it was immoral to charge interest. Now it is OK for the Vatican to have a bank. The Church changed teaching on morality. I applaud the change. It’s a sign of intelligent leadership.
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If that is your understanding then I suggest you do more reading.
“Did the condemnation of the taking of interest ever meet the conditions for the infallible exercise of the ordinary magisterium?” "The answer is negative."25 He makes this answer because he recognizes the important distinction between interest and usury, a distinction which he sees present in the teaching of the magisterium: “The sin of usury is not simply the charging of interest on a loan, but the charging of interest on a loan in virtue of the very making of the loan, rather than in virtue of some factor related to the loan which provides a basis for a fair demand for compensation.”
geocities.com/frcoulter/usury/index.html
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proof?
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Aquinas.

Aquin.: SMT SS Q[11] A[3] Body Para. 1/2

I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. **Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death. **
 
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Aquarius:
Aquinas.

Aquin.: SMT SS Q[11] A[3] Body Para. 1/2

I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. **Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death. **
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At that time the Church and secular society were much more closely aligned. Heresy would have the same effect as a violent disruption of society. The Church had an obligation to preserve order. Also, the quote you gave is not a doctrine that was taught by the magisterium as infallible.

The Church did not kill folks, folks in the Church may have turned over to civil authorities heretics as civil order was at stake.
 
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At that time the Church and secular society were much more closely aligned. Heresy would have the same effect as a violent disruption of society. The Church had an obligation to preserve order. Also, the quote you gave is not a doctrine that was taught by the magisterium as infallible.

The Church did not kill folks, folks in the Church may have turned over to civil authorities heretics as civil order was at stake.
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I agree at that time the Church could get the state to do its dirty work. Now that we have secular government, we don’t have to worry about Aquinas’ ideas on killing those who disagree…
 
If your friend was staning in front of a moving car I am sure you would push him out of the way. However when your friend is puting his immortal soul at risk you remain silent???
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That is a completely different situation, any such scenario is not as simple as that. It is due to simplifying the homosexual orientation, that one day the RCC may very well be proven wrong.
You say that you are Catholic. Catholics worship Yahweh GOD. If you worship Yahweh GOD, then you must abide by HIS words. What athiests and agnostics believe does not concern the true Christian whose only desire is to serve Yahweh GOD and HIS SON, Jesus Christ.
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It is a lovely ideal, but it is also not quite that simple for some people. If one has never been in a situation where their own viewpoint conflicts with that of the church, then really one is not qualified to pass comment.
 
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Aquarius:
I agree at that time the Church could get the state to do its dirty work. Now that we have secular government, we don’t have to worry about Aquinas’ ideas on killing those who disagree…
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That certainly is a minimization of the truth. Sarcasm does not make error truth.
 
A. The movie IS propaganda. Blatent.
B. It’s apparently working on both the secular world and our “less than committed” CINOs.
C. The practice (active) of homosexuality** IS** a sin in the eyes of God. per The Church and the Bible. If you don’t like that, too bad. No amount of rationalization nor arguement will change that fact.
D… I’ve been gone from these forums for a few weeks and wonder how we got infiltrated by so many “non” Catholics?!? :confused:
 
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The problem is with our failure to grasp the truth of these matters.
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The truth is simple. The Church once said lending money at interest was immoral. Now the Church has its own bank. The teaching changed.
 
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That certainly is a minimization of the truth. Sarcasm does not make error truth.
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It isn’t sarcasm. What is the error?

Aquinas said heretics should be killed. If the state swung the axe, it was a cooperative venture between Church and state.
 
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catsrus:
A. The movie IS propaganda. Blatent.
B. It’s apparently working on both the secular world and our “less than committed” CINOs.
C. The practice (active) of homosexuality** IS** a sin in the eyes of God. per The Church and the Bible. If you don’t like that, too bad. No amount of rationalization nor arguement will change that fact.
D… I’ve been gone from these forums for a few weeks and wonder how we got infiltrated by so many “non” Catholics?!? :confused:
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What’s wrong with propaganda? Is the Passion propaganda? Gibson used many of the cinematic techniques that are labeled propaganda in Brokeback. Gibson and Li are both fine craftsmen.
 
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Aquarius:
The truth is simple. The Church once said lending money at interest was immoral. Now the Church has its own bank. The teaching changed.
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Those who claims the Church changed it teaching would not be able to find any inconsistency between this teaching and the Scholastic tradition. Benedict XIV condemns usury, but approves legitimate extrinsic titles and partnerships.
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In fact, some authors conveniently overlook canon 1543 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law which reads:
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If a fungible thing is given to someone in such a way that it becomes his own and is to be returned later on in kind only, no profit may be made by reason of the contract itself; but in lending a fungible thing it is not in itself illicit to contract for legal interest, unless this be manifestly excessive, or even for a higher profit if a just and adequate title be present.22While also including the modern definition of usury as excessive interest, it would seem this official law of the Church (which was in effect until 1983) still remained faithful to the Church’s teaching as properly understood according to the theory of extrinsic titles outlined by the scholastics. In fact, the 1917 Code also provided "that several penalties be imposed on those convicted of usury, which is listed with such crimes as murder, rape, and robbery."23
http://www.geocities.com/frcoulter/usury/index.html
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The issue is not as straight forward as you wish to make.
 
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Aquarius:
It isn’t sarcasm. What is the error?

Aquinas said heretics should be killed. If the state swung the axe, it was a cooperative venture between Church and state.
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And the Church had a valid reason to be certain public order was not disrupted.
 
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The issue is not as straight forward as you wish to make.
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It’s very straight forward. The Church said it was immoral to lend 100 pieces of gold and get 105 in return. It said it didn’t matter if the interest was very small. But, now it is OK for the Vatican bank to lend 100 pieces of gold and get 105 in return.

The moral teaching changed.

I understand that legacy can get inconvenient.
 
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And the Church had a valid reason to be certain public order was not disrupted.
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So, now you know where the Church taught we should kill people as a matter of faith and morals.

Is it OK to kill people today who disagree with the Church?
 
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