Brother's invalid marriage

[LaSainte]

My lapsed brother and his fiancé are both baptized Catholics and getting “married” in a civil ceremony, which I am attending despite the fact that I have raised my objections to my brother. I told him his marriage will be considered invalid by the church but he is in a hurry and doesn’t care. He says they will get married in the Church “someday”. Anyway, my question is this: if they stay at my home, am I supposed to let them share a room? How does one handle this?

 

[adrift]

My lapsed brother and his fiancé are both baptized Catholics and getting “married” in a civil ceremony, which I am attending despite the fact that I have raised my objections to my brother. I told him his marriage will be considered invalid by the church but he is in a hurry and doesn’t care. He says they will get married in the Church “someday”. Anyway, my question is this: if they stay at my home, am I supposed to let them share a room? How does one handle this?

He knows that you don’t approve so it should come as not surprise that you wouldn’t want them in the same room. They will not be married. I would suggest that you tell him that he is welcome in your home as long as they are in separate beds. If he objects, give him the location of a good motel.

 

[Viki63]

Wonder why he’s in a hurry?
Marriage is not something to rush into. Of course that’s why the church wants us to take time to think it over.
You could mention that since he’s in too big a hurry to have a valid wedding, at least the annulment should be easy to obtain.
But that’s probably uncharitable. Better not.

 

[Steveabrous]

I don’t think their marriage would be considered invalid unless one of them is divorced. The church does recognize marriages outside of the Catholic church

 

[CJECulver]

I don’t think their marriage would be considered invalid unless one of them is divorced. The church does recognize marriages outside of the Catholic church

I don’t believe the Church recognizes the validity of a civil ceremony when one or both are baptized Catholics, unless they first receive a special dispensation from canonical form. Even then, they must have been free to marry in the Church – e.g., no previous divorce(s).

If they do have the civil ceremony, they will need to have the marriage convalidated before the Church will recognize it.

stjameshopewell.org/questions/question_marriage.html

 

[LeafByNiggle]

He knows that you don’t approve so it should come as not surprise that you wouldn’t want them in the same room. They will not be married. I would suggest that you tell him that he is welcome in your home as long as they are in separate beds. If he objects, give him the location of a good motel.

Would you give the same advice if it were 10 years later and the couple had a couple of kids and wanted to vist with their kids (assuming there was room for the kids too)? Would you still insist that this couple with kids sleep in different rooms?

 

[Boy_Wonder]

He knows that you don’t approve so it should come as not surprise that you wouldn’t want them in the same room. They will not be married. I would suggest that you tell him that he is welcome in your home as long as they are in separate beds. If he objects, give him the location of a good motel.

Are you SERIOUS?? They are still legally married even though they’re not sacramentally married. I’m pretty sure that married couples who are not in a sacramental marriage are not guilty of adultery, nor are their children illegitimate. They may be guilty of other sins or violations of Church precepts, but they are not committing fornication.

Why advise him to destroy his family? We should encourage the OP to love his brother and sister in law and to treat them with love and respect. That will do more to encourage them to return tot he faith than being self-righteous prigs (based on a mad misunderstanding of moral theology) as you recommend.

 

[maryjk]

My lapsed brother and his fiancé are both baptized Catholics and getting “married” in a civil ceremony, which I am attending despite the fact that I have raised my objections to my brother. I told him his marriage will be considered invalid by the church but he is in a hurry and doesn’t care. He says they will get married in the Church “someday”. Anyway, my question is this: if they stay at my home, am I supposed to let them share a room? How does one handle this?

This is going to be a matter of conscience. So it is really going to depend on a lot of things. Number one is going to be what you think you should do.

Personally, I would allow them to share a room after they are married, regardless of where they married. My own sister, baptized Catholic, was never married in the Church but has 4 children, on of them aged 26. It would be quite the scene if I insinuated that they had to sleep in separate rooms when they stayed here.

I was also married by a judge. Once that happened, my parents had no problems having my husband and I stay in the same room. Nothing changed with the relationship with my parents when my husband and I were married in the Church.

 

[Steveabrous]

Are you SERIOUS?? They are still legally married even though they’re not sacramentally married. I’m pretty sure that married couples who are not in a sacramental marriage are not guilty of adultery, nor are their children illegitimate. They may be guilty of other sins or violations of Church precepts, but they are not committing fornication.

Why advise him to destroy his family? We should encourage the OP to love his brother and sister in law and to treat them with love and respect. That will do more to encourage them to return tot he faith than being self-righteous prigs (based on a mad misunderstanding of moral theology) as you recommend.

I agree

 

[LaSainte]

Thank you all for the answers I have to agree that I should probably treat them as a married couple. I just didn’t want to be committing a mortal sin or something by doing so. Actually, my 3 year old is going to carry the rings up in the ceremony too.

They aren’t really trying to be disrespectful, but they are very young. My brother is 23 and in the Army and she lives halfway across the country and they just fell in love and this is the only way they can be together. My brother is a lapsed Catholic and she is a Catholic (probably lapsed too). They do intend to marry in the Church eventually, but right now they are just seizing the moment and in that stage in life where most of us don’t really practice our faith.

I have voiced my objections because we do have that sort of relationship, but they are determined so I am trying to just be supportive and excited for him. Plus, I think if anything will make him start going to Church again, it will be a woman

 

[maryjk]

I have voiced my objections because we do have that sort of relationship, but they are determined so I am trying to just be supportive and excited for him. Plus, **I think if anything will make him start going to Church again, it will be a woman **

For me, it took a baby.

 

[andrewstx]

My lapsed brother and his fiancé are both baptized Catholics and getting “married” in a civil ceremony, which I am attending despite the fact that I have raised my objections to my brother. I told him his marriage will be considered invalid by the church but he is in a hurry and doesn’t care. He says they will get married in the Church “someday”. Anyway, my question is this: if they stay at my home, am I supposed to let them share a room? How does one handle this?

Do you think that finances may pay a part in your brother’s decision?

Realistically church weddings are far from cheap.

 

[LaSainte]

For me, it took a baby.

I would have thought the same thing, ut here is the crazy part: they have never even kissed!!! Over a year ago when he was home, they hung out a couple of times with mutual friends. Over the past 5 months or so, they have been chatting online and over Skype. And now they are getting married! Kind of romantic, if only they were marrying in the Church

 

[LaSainte]

Do you think that finances may pay a part in your brother’s decision?

Realistically church weddings are far from cheap.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is lonely, and he gets to live with her off-base if they are legally married. And his salary doubles.

 

[LaSainte]

For me, it took a baby.

Oh haha! I thought you meant she might be pregnant! No it was the same with me. I was lapsed until I started having kids nd suddey I wa Ted to be a part of my Church again a d teach my kids about it. It must be a pretty common scenario.

 

[maryjk]

Oh haha! I thought you meant she might be pregnant! No it was the same with me. I was lapsed until I started having kids and suddenly I wanted to be a part of my Church again and teach my kids about it. It must be a pretty common scenario.

When I read your first response, I thought, no I meant I reverted when my son was getting ready to make his first Communion.

That having a child makes all of the difference in the world.

 

[adrift]

Would you give the same advice if it were 10 years later and the couple had a couple of kids and wanted to vist with their kids (assuming there was room for the kids too)? Would you still insist that this couple with kids sleep in different rooms?

Yes sin is sin and you cannot cooperate in sin.

 

[adrift]

Are you SERIOUS?? They are still legally married even though they’re not sacramentally married. I’m pretty sure that married couples who are not in a sacramental marriage are not guilty of adultery, nor are their children illegitimate. They may be guilty of other sins or violations of Church precepts, but they are not committing fornication.

Why advise him to destroy his family? We should encourage the OP to love his brother and sister in law and to treat them with love and respect. That will do more to encourage them to return tot he faith than being self-righteous prigs (based on a mad misunderstanding of moral theology) as you recommend.

They are guilty of fornification. Why do you encourage the sin. I have seen your advise before never have I seen it bring the couple back. Accepting the sin only encourages them to remain in sin.

 

[Kelfa28]

My sister and her husband are both baptized and non-practicing Catholics. They have a new baby and we have always had room to host them…if they so choose to come by and stay.

Of course I would let them sleep in the same room.

Why? Because they don’t practice their faith, have virtually no Catechism what-so-ever and would never understand why I would suddenly impose rules…such as no sleeping in the same bed…upon them.

It would cause way more harm then good. It would do absolutely nothing to inspire them to come back to the faith. In fact…it might turn them off far more because it would be looked at as an imposition of all these “crazy rules” that Catholics seem to have.

My opinion. If the couple knows it’s a sin to not marry in the Church, despite the fact that they are Catholic, and still choose to marry Civilly…then don’t allow them to sleep in the same room.

However, if the couple is just poorly Catechized and have never actually practiced their faith…then you are doing way more harm then good by forcing them to sleep in separate rooms.

For me…that would mean my sister thinking I’m a crazy, nut job when it comes to religion and she wouldn’t want to associate with me anymore.

 

[adrift]

Why advise him to destroy his family? We should encourage the OP to love his brother and sister in law and to treat them with love and respect. That will do more to encourage them to return tot he faith than being self-righteous prigs (based on a mad misunderstanding of moral theology) as you recommend.

Matthew 10
35

For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;