Brothers of Christ for Mickey

[ckempston]

You must be very frustrated. The truth has a way of pricking the conscience. May you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

I’m not frustrated, I’m just trying to break things down simply for you, as you seem to (purposely or not) misunderstand what I am saying.

 

[Mickey]

I’m not Catholic, but I would not likely be welcomed by most Protestant denominations as I do not believe in Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide, etc

So then you are Jehova witness or some cultish group?

You take your interpretations from select Sacred Scriptures, select Sacred Traditions, and select Holy Church Fathers.

Wrong. I take all of it.

You don’t believe everything they say, but only what the Magesterium tells you to believe.

Wrong again. I am Orthodox.

 

[ralphinal]

Is that all you’ve got? Please! Jesus is no longer with them in the sense that he stated here, since, after the end of the age (whenever that happens to be), they would be in heaven.

He made no provisions as to the nature of how he is with them. He is with them until the end of the age. That is all it says.

Now, a Catholic would say that he is with us in the Real Presence and in the Spiritual sense as the Church is the Body of Christ. Guess what? Neither changes in heaven. He will be physically with us AND we will still be united with him as the Body of Christ.

 

[Mickey]

I’m not frustrated, I’m just trying to break things down simply for you, as you seem to (purposely or not) misunderstand what I am saying.

You do not need to break anything down. When you try to break something down based on a falsehood–you are left with fragments of heresy.

 

[ckempston]

He made no provisions as to the nature of how he is with them. He is with them until the end of the age. That is all it says.

Now, a Catholic would say that he is with us in the Real Presence and in the Spiritual sense as the Church is the Body of Christ. Guess what? Neither changes in heaven. He will be physically with us AND we will still be united with him as the Body of Christ.

In one sense, he is “with us” on earth. Following the “until” we are “with him” in heaven. There’s a difference.

 

[ralphinal]

In one sense, he is “with us” on earth. Following the “until” we are “with him” in heaven. There’s a difference.

Again, he said that he would be with us until the end of the age.

He made no qualifications as to the way he is with us.

If you connect the dots to the Real Presence in John, you can see that he means Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. He also spoke of where two or three are gathered, he is there. Two ways that he is with us. Neither canges in Heaven, he is with us Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, AND we are connected spiritually.

None of that matters. He said he would be with us until the end of the age. He said nothing of the nature. He also said nothing of how that with would change. Either he is with us after or he is not with us after. Again, he said NOTHING about how he is with us, just that he is with us.

 

[ckempston]

So then you are Jehova witness or some cultish group?
Wrong. I take all of it.
Wrong again. I am Orthodox.

I belong to a “non-denominational” church, which is a misnomer itself, but hey, gotta worship somewhere.

Oh, I forgot.

 

[ckempston]

Again, he said that he would be with us until the end of the age.

He made no qualifications as to the way he is with us.

If you connect the dots to the Real Presence in John, you can see that he means Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. He also spoke of where two or three are gathered, he is there. Two ways that he is with us. Neither canges in Heaven, he is with us Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, AND we are connected spiritually.

None of that matters. He said he would be with us until the end of the age. He said nothing of the nature. He also said nothing of how that with would change. Either he is with us after or he is not with us after. Again, he said NOTHING about how he is with us, just that he is with us.

Of course he did. The Apostles would understand him to be referring to being with them through the Paraclete, since after this point, he obviously wasn’t “physically” with them. When we’re in heaven, he is no longer with us through the Paraclete, but we are directly before him.

 

[ralphinal]

Of course he did. The Apostles would understand him to be referring to being with them through the Paraclete, since after this point, he obviously wasn’t “physically” with them. When we’re in heaven, he is no longer with us through the Paraclete, but we are directly before him.

Actually, I doubt that. In fact, I think that they had no idea what he was talking about. It wasn;t until Pentecost that they understood what he taught.

Is Jesus with us as the Holy Spirit?

 

[mardukm]

Actually, I doubt that. In fact, I think that they had no idea what he was talking about. It wasn;t until Pentecost that they understood what he taught.

Is Jesus with us as the Holy Spirit?

I believe ckempston’s statement is one of the many and varied errors of Protestantism. Of the Persons of the Trinity, Jesus is the only one who has a body (glorified). This glorified body violates the natural laws of physics, as the New Testament clearly attests.

Protestants, however, somehow think that Jesus’ glorified body actually restricts Him from being actually present with us on earth because he is “in” heaven, as if heaven were actually a place somewhere “out there.” On several levels, this demonstrates just how deficient Protestant theology and Christology is.

Blessings

 

[ralphinal]

I believe ckempston’s statement is one of the many and varied errors of Protestantism. Of the Persons of the Trinity, Jesus is the only one who has a body (glorified). This glorified body violates the natural laws of physics, as the New Testament clearly attests.

Protestants, however, somehow think that Jesus’ glorified body actually restricts Him from being actually present with us on earth because he is “in” heaven, as if heaven were actually a place somewhere “out there.” On several levels, this demonstrates just how deficient Protestant theology and Christology is.

Blessings

I would agree as long as you limit it to those denominations that deny the Real Presence.

Those that teach that in some way Jesus is truly present do not have the same issue with that. Lutherans are a good example.

 

[Mickey]

I belong to a “non-denominational” church

The non-denoms are usually protestant in theology (mostly a combo of baptist, pentecostal, and presbyterian)—But mostly baptist.

 

[Mickey]

Protestants, however, somehow think that Jesus’ glorified body actually restricts Him from being actually present with us on earth because he is “in” heaven, as if heaven were actually a place somewhere “out there.” On several levels, this demonstrates just how deficient Protestant theology and Christology is.

Correct. It is a similar premise regarding when we ask the saints to pray for us–or when we pray for the dead.

The protestants say this is impossible because they are dead.

 

[ckempston]

I believe ckempston’s statement is one of the many and varied errors of Protestantism. Of the Persons of the Trinity, Jesus is the only one who has a body (glorified). This glorified body violates the natural laws of physics, as the New Testament clearly attests.

Protestants, however, somehow think that Jesus’ glorified body actually restricts Him from being actually present with us on earth because he is “in” heaven, as if heaven were actually a place somewhere “out there.” On several levels, this demonstrates just how deficient Protestant theology and Christology is.

Blessings

That is simply hilarious. I think no such thing.

 

[ckempston]

Correct. It is a similar premise regarding when we ask the saints to pray for us–or when we pray for the dead.

The protestants say this is impossible because they are dead.

It’s impossible because they are not omnipresent or omniscient. Mary can’t hear a billion prayers at one time because she’s not part of the godhead.

 

[mardukm]

I would agree as long as you limit it to those denominations that deny the Real Presence.

Those that teach that in some way Jesus is truly present do not have the same issue with that. Lutherans are a good example.

On this issue, yeah, you’re right.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[ckempston]

The non-denoms are usually protestant in theology (mostly a combo of baptist, pentecostal, and presbyterian)—But mostly baptist.

Huh, well, you’d be surprised to learn then that most of what we affirm would be considered Catholic over Protestant.

 

[mardukm]

It’s impossible because they are not omnipresent or omniscient. Mary can’t hear a billion prayers at one time because she’s not part of the godhead.

Who said they were? Ever heard of the Holy Spirit that unites the body of Christ?

Blessings

 

[mardukm]

Correct. It is a similar premise regarding when we ask the saints to pray for us–or when we pray for the dead.

The protestants say this is impossible because they are dead.

I do recall reading a book that said, “put on the mind of Christ.” I wonder if they’ve ever read it? Christ does not believe they are dead. Why should we?

 

[mardukm]

Huh, well, you’d be surprised to learn then that most of what we affirm would be considered Catholic over Protestant.

What’s your denomination, if I may ask?