Bruce Jenner's Début as "Caitlyn"

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I think the 1st Chapter of St. Paul’s letter to the Romans sums up our current world quite nicely:
"[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and to the Greek. [17] For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: [19] Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

[21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

[31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them."

So What St. Paul saw in 1st century Rome is what we see today. Nothing new under the sun. Same sin, same demons, same prideful, self absorbed people refusing to yield to a generous, Loving God.

Scripture from drbo.org/index.htm

Pax.
 
I disagree, this is out dated information, the Clarke Institute of Toronto now referred to CAMH. Has recognized the error in its treatment of this condition, they no more practice conversion therapy. autogynephilia is not relevant since the process of transitioning with hormones greatly reduces the libido and hence a contradiction to going down that route for autogynephiliac reasons.
However that does not negate the original ‘feelings’ of autogynephilia. Once the libido is greatly reduced, could explain the high suicide rate after transitioning, as the original perceived want/desire to change has been taken away, or has been greatly reduced.
 
Neo-gnosticism is at work again. The age old heresy of body against soul once again appears. The Church has always said that body and soul have a special relationship, this is not necessarily being denied by proponents of Bruce Jenner, but Gnosticism is being revisited, being redefined. A new heresy for a new time.
 
This attached article,is the most reasonable explaination I have read up to this point re BJ and those with similar issues.
This part was most enlightening:

*They are “autogynephiliacs,” men who (in Allen’s words) “fall in love with the idea of contemplating themselves as women.” Autogynephilia is “essentially an erotic response to the trappings of genetic womanhood.” Transgenders in this category act out of sexual fixation rather than out of an innate identity. They don’t take up crochet. They pose for Vanity Fair in slinky teddies. *
 
—-> Most transgender individuals do not believe that their genotypic sex is different from what it actually is. Thus, being transgender is usually not associated with the psychotic symptom such as paranoid delusions or delusions of grandeur. Having a firm belief that you are Napoleon is obviously a psychotic delusion of grandeur.

—-> According to NHS (2012), a psychosis is often associated with thought disturbances, manifesting as strange shifts in speech content, sudden pauses or arbitrary speech content. There is no evidence that these symptoms are associated with being transgender.

—-> Transgender individuals generally do not experience hallucinations of smell, touch or sound and so on but these kinds of hallucinations are common in individuals with psychosis (NHS, 2012).

—-> Psychiatric conditions that involve psychotic delusions tend to respond to anti-psychotics, whereas anti-psychotics are not listed as a credible, evidence-based treatment for transgender individuals diagnosed with gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria (World Professional Association for Transgender Health, 2011).

Here is some more extensive reading , transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/
Good and accurate points according to current scientific knowledge. Visual hallucinations also exist in many people who suffer from schizophrenia (a psychosis). Gender dysphoria is neither schizophrenia nor delusional disorder. It is not regarded as a psychosis at all.
 
This part was most enlightening:

*They are “autogynephiliacs,” men who (in Allen’s words) “fall in love with the idea of contemplating themselves as women.” Autogynephilia is “essentially an erotic response to the trappings of genetic womanhood.” Transgenders in this category act out of sexual fixation rather than out of an innate identity. They don’t take up crochet. They pose for Vanity Fair in slinky teddies. *
And the same would apply in reverse to the opposite gender, or is there a different mechanism according to Allen? It seems Allen believes that gender identity is contingent upon sexual fixation: a very Freudian approach.
 
And the same would apply in reverse to the opposite gender, or is there a different mechanism according to Allen? It seems Allen believes that gender identity is contingent upon sexual fixation: a very Freudian approach.
Regardless of how one wants to look at it Bruce Jenner is a man. Always has been, always will be. How he arrived at the delusion he is really a woman is really not relevant .
 
This part was most enlightening:

*They are “autogynephiliacs,” men who (in Allen’s words) “fall in love with the idea of contemplating themselves as women.” Autogynephilia is “essentially an erotic response to the trappings of genetic womanhood.” Transgenders in this category act out of sexual fixation rather than out of an innate identity. They don’t take up crochet. They pose for Vanity Fair in slinky teddies. *
Yrs,this is the paragraph that really hit the nail on the head.I have been trying to understand where BJ is coming from re his statements about still being attracted to women.This made article made sense,in so much ascBJ isn’t really interested in becoming a women,he is more attracted to what the physical aspects of being a girlie girl embrace.A rather perverted erotica it seems.
 
As I admitted, the part of my post to which you replied is not directly related to the OP, but I will quickly address your questions below.
So are you saying that celibacy is more of a sacrifice for a heterosexual man?
No. I am neither saying nor do I believe that. Proof - the Catholic Church loses enough priests who are unable to hold to this demanding discipline of celibacy. It is not easy for any man to forever forsake marriage to a woman and to form his own family. But the reward is high for those who make the sacrifice in the service for the kingdom of God.
Don’t you think 1) that being celibate is just as difficult for someone with same-sex attraction and 2) that such a person is also answering a high calling?
The above is a two part question, and the numbers are my additions.

Note that I raised the offering of a sacrifice as it relates to a true vocation for the Catholic priesthood. Celibacy in said context would be difficult with the same sex attracted as well as the opposite sex attracted. For a same sex attracted candidate, it is probably more difficult, I would think, if he were indulging in active homosexual practice for years, a sign factoring into a deep seated homosexual condition. There is an allowance as I understand under current Chirch policy for consideration to not disqualify candidates who have had transient homosexual feelings or homosexual experience as a passing and concluded phase.

On investigation of past priest formation process, there were accordingly same sex attracted males in significant numbers that applied to the seminary. In retrospect, there is reason to suspect they applied not out of a true vocation but as an escape from social / family expectations, and enough if not many made it through ordination. Had more stringent screening of postulants to Catholic clergy and continual qualification through priest formation process were in place, the ensuing scandal of actively homosexual priests could have been less.

Celibacy is no doubt a challenging discipline requiring strength in character and resolve, to live out the requirement at least for the most part to the end.

Certainly, a same sex attracted postulant who seriously and strongly assent to a vow of celibacy, who possesses and cultivates fortitude in maintaining said discipline, which is but one in a list of sacrifices a priest makes in the service of the kingdom of God, such person is answering a high calling.
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This part was most enlightening:

*They are “autogynephiliacs,” men who (in Allen’s words) “fall in love with the idea of contemplating themselves as women.” Autogynephilia is “essentially an erotic response to the trappings of genetic womanhood.” Transgenders in this category act out of sexual fixation rather than out of an innate identity. They don’t take up crochet. They pose for Vanity Fair in slinky teddies. *
Mike Penner aka Christine Daniels is thought to be autogynephilic as well. His transitioning (without SRS) led to a tragic end. We hope and pray it would be different for Bruce Jenner.
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However that does not negate the original ‘feelings’ of autogynephilia. Once the libido is greatly reduced, could explain the high suicide rate after transitioning, as the original perceived want/desire to change has been taken away, or has been greatly reduced.
Not true at all, first transition does not Equate to Surgery (SRS) , It could just involve Hormones so much of the libido returns after stopping hormones, only a minority of Transgender people go for SRS Surgery . As a result if they are disappointed with the loss of libido most have the option to stop the hormones.
Second hormones are taken for at least a year before surgery hence there is a enough of time to revert if Libido is such a big Problem .
Autogynophilia it typically associated with Transvestites not Transgender people.
 
Yrs,this is the paragraph that really hit the nail on the head.I have been trying to understand where BJ is coming from re his statements about still being attracted to women.This made article made sense,in so much ascBJ isn’t really interested in becoming a women,he is more attracted to what the physical aspects of being a girlie girl embrace.A rather perverted erotica it seems.
Please! Sexual attraction has nothing to do with being transgender. There is absolutely Nothing to indicate that Caitlyn Jenner is doing this for reasons related to autogynephilia.

I would suggest you take the time to do some research before making judgemental statements.

No one on this thread knows Caitlyn Jenner well enough to make these accusations. Makes us Catholics look bad.

It would be worth while trying to understand what is the driver for taking the position you have taken.

The Church has said nothing officially regarding this condition! What gives you the right to play God?
 
Regardless of how one wants to look at it Bruce Jenner is a man. Always has been, always will be. How he arrived at the delusion he is really a woman is really not relevant .
This is exactly right, its a shame not many people can recognize this simple fact LOL, HE will always be a male according to the medical community, HE will still require a regular prostrate exam, he still has an Adams apple, still has that extra chromosome…Yep, thats a MAN.
 
What Jenner has done to his body. Would the church call that mutilation?

Bill
 
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