Bruce Jenner's Début as "Caitlyn"

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Matthew 18:9: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee…

Perhaps a trans-woman’s penis offends her 😉
If your eye causes you to sin, cut it off, but nice try;). I’m sure the reasn Jesus used this example is that no one’s organs causes sin. Sin is always a choice of the free will, not the natural activity of physical organs undirected by deliberate human action. Hence the very obvious metaphrical intent of the passage.
 
I did not disregard it, she said her father’s transition damaged her, but I don’t see how it did.

I am sorry I was unclear.

Most transgender people given financial means probably would, but there are many who would not.

is the penis an essential part of the body? Does a lack of a penis meaningfully impede one living a good and active life? Does lacking a penis reduce the number of meaningful things you can do with your life by a substantial amount?

Before she came out to anyone in her family she was absolutely terrified that if she told them she’d be kicked out and would have to live on the street. After finding out her family has been supportive she very rarely entertains thoughts of suicide whereas before she contemplated it daily.

So if even a single person in a field disagrees do you regard that as no consensus as to treatment? I would like to note that even Blanchard recommended people for surgery and hormones.

Okay dear.
Yes the church considers things such as castration mutilation. And removing the penis too I am sure.

Bill
 
It’s the new Gnosticism.

“Notice how the mind or the will—the inner self—is casually identified as the “real me” whereas the body is presented as an antagonist which can and should be manipulated by the authentic self. The soul and the body are in a master/slave relationship, the former legitimately dominating and re-making the latter. This schema is, to a tee, gnostic—and just as repugnant to Biblical religion as it was nineteen hundred years ago.”

Bruce Jenner, the Shadow Council and St. Irenaeus
 
There are catholics who think they have found a way to justify SRS by looking at the body more like property that you can fashion and refashion to suit your own view as though one’s nature came from their own view rather than from the view of another: God. Being creatures means we get a being matching or identical with an idea of God. These catholics think if they make the person’s own idea the basis of their “true” nature, this somehow becomes caholic or legitimate. A fantasy. A justification that comes only after and because of notions already emotionally accepted rather than objectively discerned. They claim trans-gendered folks don’t think they can choose their sex. O that’s right. They only believe their own idea of who or what they are precedes the objective reality of their God-given bodies. Thats the very definitition of man playing God. Who says your body is fashioned to match your own ideas and beliefs? How about, maybe you the fallible creature is simply wrong? Your body is fashioned already and matches your creator’s idea. The other is the old sin of pride. Your ideas are hardly infallible that you think they are a basis for remaking reality itself in a manner to destroy the essence of the objectively-created reality of God. Nothing like that is catholic. This is a lie. And catholicism will never be compatible with lies.
My niece believes she’s a boy who likes boys. When they did testing on her, they found that she has high levels of testosterone not associated with poly-cystic ovarian syndrome or other abnormalities. It’s just her natural state of being according to the docs at U Mass. She doesn’t get periods. She has breasts, a vagina and facial hair. She’s always, since I can remember from her toddler years, identified as male. A few years ago, she asked that we call her by her male name and refer to her as him. And with great love and support, we do. He is a child of God. He’s not broken, disabled or a freak. He’s a perfectly healthy, loving human being deserving of our love and support. God made him that way and it would be rather presumptuous of us to assume that it’s our job to clean up God’s mess by realigning and reconfiguring his creation.
 
My niece believes she’s a boy who likes boys. When they did testing on her, they found that she has high levels of testosterone not associated with poly-cystic ovarian syndrome or other abnormalities. It’s just her natural state of being according to the docs at U Mass. She doesn’t get periods. She has breasts, a vagina and facial hair. She’s always, since I can remember from her toddler years, identified as male. A few years ago, she asked that we call her by her male name and refer to her as him. And with great love and support, we do. He is a child of God. He’s not broken, disabled or a freak. He’s a perfectly healthy, loving human being deserving of our love and support. God made him that way and it would be rather presumptuous of us to assume that it’s our job to clean up God’s mess by realigning and reconfiguring his creation.
But isn’t that exactly what you are doing,realigning and reconfiguring your niece by not recognizing God made her female? Back in the day,girls that were more inclined to enjoy male activities were called tomboys. The fact that your niece is attracted to males,it sounds as though she is in fact a female with extra testosterone. This is why encouraging gender confusion through acceptance is dong such individuals no favor.They are in conflict with God and the way He created them.
 
Now that some of the insanity around Bruce “Call me Caitlyn” Jenner has died down a bit, I thought we might collect some articles written by Catholics that oppose the “Bruce is a hero” narrative. A few others I’ve found worth reading are:

Father Barron - Bruce Jenner, the ‘Shadow Council,’ and St Irenaeus

Father Longnecker - Bruce Jenner’s New Clothes

This from Aleteia - The Emperor is a Crossdresser

This from Crisis Mag - Preaching About Bruce Jenner?

Mark Shea - Transgender Newspeak

This You Tube video from Ascension Presents

And my own two cents - Of Bruce Jenner, Superman, Atheism, and the Mad Embrace of Untruth

Add your own favorites in the comments! The overall narrative is that Bruce is a hero, but our “countercultural” Catholic movement is putting up more of a resistance than some realize!
 
Now that some of the insanity around Bruce “Call me Caitlyn” Jenner has died down a bit, I thought we might collect some articles written by Catholics that oppose the “Bruce is a hero” narrative. A few others I’ve found worth reading are:

Father Barron - Bruce Jenner, the ‘Shadow Council,’ and St Irenaeus

Father Longnecker - Bruce Jenner’s New Clothes

This from Aleteia - The Emperor is a Crossdresser

This from Crisis Mag - Preaching About Bruce Jenner?

Mark Shea - Transgender Newspeak

This You Tube video from Ascension Presents

And my own two cents - Of Bruce Jenner, Superman, Atheism, and the Mad Embrace of Untruth

Add your own favorites in the comments! The overall narrative is that Bruce is a hero, but our “countercultural” Catholic movement is putting up more of a resistance than some realize!
Argo Ergo Sum is having loading issues at this time, but I look forward to reading it in full.

Thank you for the above compilation.
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is the penis an essential part of the body? Does a lack of a penis meaningfully impede one living a good and active life? Does lacking a penis reduce the number of meaningful things you can do with your life by a substantial amount?
With that line of reasoning, demanding surgical removal of one’s normal disease-free appendix would be reasonable, since the organ has no apparent use for an individual.

We can live with one lung, as our current Pope does (an unresolving infection in his younger years indicated removal of a lung). Without pathology, it would be sane to have one of two healthy lungs surgically removed.

Our sexual organs are normally under street clothes, not visible to the world. Yet, transwomen and transmen accordingly find them very offensive. In an account by a natal female I came across, she regarded her vagina as a wound, and seeing it as a part of her person caused her much anguish.

For an unambiguous male or female having such detestation for the body, what explanation can be reached except that it is a mental illness? Mental illness carries a social stigma. This outlook has to be changed, which I believe all can agree on. (Physically disfiguring medical conditions are stigmatizing as well.)

The transgender condition remains in the DSM as gender identity disorder (replaced as gender dysphoria as accommodation to transgender activists who feel that “disorder” is stigmatizing). The reason is the DSM provides a billing mechanism for mental health professionals to charge and get paid for their services.

There is unmistakable agenda to have transgenderism classified as a medical, and not a mental illness. It is the reason said population is pushing the concept of a biological cause, e.g., white matter in the brain, neural pathways to the brain, a female brain in a man’s body and vice versa, etc. It is how financial coverage for SRS, the gold standard of treatment in the transgender mind, can be inserted under a health plan or government subsidy for the financially strapped.

It may be that there is a biological cause, like that involving hormones during gestation. There is much floated on the Internet of claims, that there is professional consensus already, etc., etc., which activists grab and tout as proven when so called studies are only theorized or suggested, but have not been rendered objectively conclusive.

For findings to be legitimately established, scientific research need to be conducted without bias, without an eye for a targeted result, dependent on the politics and motivation of the group or groups funding the study.
So if even a single person in a field disagrees do you regard that as no consensus as to treatment? I would like to note that even Blanchard recommended people for surgery and hormones.
Blanchard has more than one supporter. To repeat, Blanchard’s autogynephilia theory has its critics, yes, but it also has its supporters among whom are Anne Lawrence, Michael Bailey and John Cantor. Accordingly, Dr. Lawrence is a physician who is an MrF transsexual and a recognized expert on transsexualism.

That said, neither you or I are experts who can claim that we know all about or fully understand the transgender / transsexual condition.

Whether BJ is an autogynephiliac or not, and if autogynephiliacs can justify hormone treatment and SRS or not, are unanswered at this time.
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But isn’t that exactly what you are doing,realigning and reconfiguring your niece by not recognizing God made her female? Back in the day,girls that were more inclined to enjoy male activities were called tomboys. The fact that your niece is attracted to males,it sounds as though she is in fact a female with extra testosterone. This is why encouraging gender confusion through acceptance is dong such individuals no favor.They are in conflict with God and the way He created them.
He’s chosen not to mess with his body, his chin hair, his muscular physique, his uterus, anything. He’s not getting a hysterectomy nor is he going on drugs. He’s happy with the way God made him. I see nothing wrong with sticking with God’s plan. Too many of us ignore God and try to fix what is not broken in order to conform to our personal view points and desires. He is what he is, a loving faithful follower of Christ, happy to exist in the beautiful divine gift his creator has bestowed. I really love how our family has come around him to protect him from those whose hearts are hardened by human thoughts and conventions. We only ask that people soften their hearts to let God in and to see that to force this person to conform to human ideals of femininity, to pollute his healthy body with human hormone correction therapies, is to admit that God got it wrong. He didn’t. There is no conflict because God, whom we do not question, made him that way. Forcing him to say he’s a female, to act as a female and to go thru life as a female is slap in the face of God and his handi-work. My nephew’s parish is very supportive of him as is his community of family and friends. He is living a happy life as a Catholic and that’s awesome. I am so proud of him, our church and our family. We are certainly blessed and it doesn’t take much to see and feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. 🙂
 
He’s chosen not to mess with his body, his chin hair, his muscular physique, his uterus, anything. He’s not getting a hysterectomy nor is he going on drugs. He’s happy with the way God made him. I see nothing wrong with sticking with God’s plan. Too many of us ignore God and try to fix what is not broken in order to conform to our personal view points and desires. He is what he is, a loving faithful follower of Christ, happy to exist in the beautiful divine gift his creator has bestowed. I really love how our family has come around him to protect him from those whose hearts are hardened by human thoughts and conventions. We only ask that people soften their hearts to let God in and to see that to force this person to conform to human ideals of femininity, to pollute his healthy body with human hormone correction therapies, is to admit that God got it wrong. He didn’t. There is no conflict because God, whom we do not question, made him that way. Forcing him to say he’s a female, to act as a female and to go thru life as a female is slap in the face of God and his handi-work. My nephew’s parish is very supportive of him as is his community of family and friends. He is living a happy life as a Catholic and that’s awesome. I am so proud of him, our church and our family. We are certainly blessed and it doesn’t take much to see and feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. 🙂
Would you mind defining “man” and “woman” for me? I’m not sure we mean the same things by those terms, thus any response I’d offer might be talking past your point. God bless.
 
With that line of reasoning, demanding surgical removal of one’s normal disease-free appendix would be reasonable, since the organ has no apparent use for an individual.
So is it also wrong for a man to be circumcised since this involves the surgical removal of a normal disease-free appendix? I’ve been told that the foreskin protects the glans and removing the foreskin decreases sensitivity in the penis. Some men who have been circumcised as children feel that they have been mutilated and that sexual intercourse without a foreskin is less satisfying, but for others, it’s not a big deal. So who’s right? (Apparently God doesn’t mind the removal of this disease free appendix).
 
So is it also wrong for a man to be circumcised since this involves the surgical removal of a normal disease-free appendix? I’ve been told that the foreskin protects the glans and removing the foreskin decreases sensitivity in the penis. Some men who have been circumcised as children feel that they have been mutilated and that sexual intercourse without a foreskin is less satisfying, but for others, it’s not a big deal. So who’s right? (Apparently God doesn’t mind the removal of this disease free appendix).
Circumcision in males is not considered wrong. It was raised earlier too in relation to female genital cutting of the clitoris in some cultures. I know of no health benefit to FGM, unlike with male circumcision.

From WebMD, which does not mention religion or God in the decision to circumcise:
There is evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).
Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.
The last is the reason the males in my family are all circumcised.

I think mothers or parents who do not choose circumcision for their infant boys, or males who are happy to be uncircumcised, should be free to opt for non-circumcision and they are. They face no significant opposition across society.
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But isn’t that exactly what you are doing,realigning and reconfiguring your niece by not recognizing God made her female? Back in the day,girls that were more inclined to enjoy male activities were called tomboys. The fact that your niece is attracted to males,it sounds as though she is in fact a female with extra testosterone. This is why encouraging gender confusion through acceptance is dong such individuals no favor.They are in conflict with God and the way He created them.
I think the key phrase you used is “back in the day.” Yes, once we called them tomboys since we didn’t know any better. Then we found out that some (by no means all) of those tomboys were actually lesbians. Now we are finding out that some (not all) of those lesbians are really transgender. We learn by means of science. It is nothing to be so disturbed about, in my view, even though it is natural to be disturbed since we are so unfamiliar with the phenomenon and it therefore appears strange to us. But it does NOT mean we are going against G-d’s creation based on gender. It just means we are discovering through science more of the previously undisclosed mysteries and complexities of G-d’s creation, as science has been doing for generations.
 
Circumcision in males is not considered wrong. It was raised earlier too in relation to female genital cutting of the clitoris in some cultures. I know of no health benefit to FGM, unlike with male circumcision.

From WebMD, which does not mention religion or God in the decision to circumcise:

The last is the reason the males in my family are all circumcised.
Circumcision of children is certainly considered wrong by many men who didn’t want their foreskins removed and feel that it has negatively impacted their sex lives as adults. Also, if there are health benefits to being circumcised, then why did God create a foreskin on the penis in the first place? Why didn’t He just leave it off? Almost no Europeans practice circumcision and even in the US, only about half of new parents are now deciding to circumcise their sons.
 
Circumcision in males is not considered wrong. It was raised earlier too in relation to female genital cutting of the clitoris in some cultures. I know of no health benefit to FGM, unlike with male circumcision.

From WebMD, which does not mention religion or God in the decision to circumcise:

The last is the reason the males in my family are all circumcised.

I think mothers or parents who do not choose circumcision for their infant boys, or males who are happy to be uncircumcised, should be free to opt for non-circumcision and they are. They face no significant opposition across society.
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This is actually far more messy than it might appear at first. There’s a growing body of medical literature challenging the “benefits” of male circumcision and if you do a search here on CAF, you’ll find threads in which men who were circumcised as babies and are irate that their level of sexual satisfaction was so significantly and permanently curbed by this procedure. Claiming that “circumcision in males is not considered wrong” is far too general, then – it may be by some but by others, it’s considered unnecessary mutilation.
 
But isn’t that exactly what you are doing,realigning and reconfiguring your niece by not recognizing God made her female? Back in the day,girls that were more inclined to enjoy male activities were called tomboys.
For a female to have facial hair, a muscular physique, and not menstruate sounds like more than just being a “tomboy”. 🤷
 
Circumcision of children is certainly considered wrong by many men who didn’t want their foreskins removed and feel that it has negatively impacted their sex lives as adults. Also, if there are health benefits to being circumcised, then why did God create a foreskin on the penis in the first place? Why didn’t He just leave it off? Almost no Europeans practice circumcision and even in the US, only about half of new parents are now deciding to circumcise their sons.
Male circumcision is certainly a controversial issue, and we have had threads on CAF about whether or not it should be completely banned. The health benefits of the procedure are open to debate. For those of us who practice circumcision because it is an important part of our religion, we are obligated to defend the ritual on religious principles. It is surely not regarded as child abuse under these circumstances. However, how then can we protest female circumcision based on religious principles? I am not sure.
 
This is actually far more messy than it might appear at first. There’s a growing body of medical literature challenging the “benefits” of male circumcision and if you do a search here on CAF, you’ll find threads in which men who were circumcised as babies and are irate that their level of sexual satisfaction was so significantly and permanently curbed by this procedure. Claiming that “circumcision in males is not considered wrong” is far too general, then – it may be by some but by others, it’s considered unnecessary mutilation.
Well, the circumcision practice is unchallenged in my natal family (coming from one with six boys, two of whom are medical doctors, and myself having two sons) as the benefits prove to outweigh the problems associated with non-circumcision. So we do not agree that it is unnecessary mutilation.

The opposing POV to circumcision is understandable, however, given accidents like the David Reimer case in the extreme and complaints on the level of sexual satisfaction of adults circumcised as babies on the other end of the spectrum.

Just curious, since I have not gone on any thread on circumcision, how would adult males circumcised as babies know about the levels of sexual satisfaction, since babies do not have sex? I don’t even think pre- pubertal boys engage in sex, to the point of ejaculation. I can understand the claim in circumcision on older or adult males, with sexual experience pre and post circumcision.

As current child delivery policy in hospitals, newborn males do not get circumcised, unless there is a pre-delivery instruction by the birthing mother. My husband and I did not know this until after C-sect delivery of our firstborn, a son, so we had the pediatrician do it after, but the procedure could only be scheduled after I was discharged. Meaning a trip to the hospital was necessary soon after leaving the hospital, not fun for a new post C-sect mother! Besides my gripe that I could have been spared of post-circumcision care of my baby, the nurses would have been doing it for at least two / three days. The next time we had our baby (again a son) we knew better and thereby pre-arranged our baby’s circumcision after delivery. As an aside, although I am not Jewish, I attended (joyfully) two bris ceremonies to which I was invited.

One can reasonably consider that removal of penile foreskin is not much more invasive than removal of a pesky in-the-way skin tag. But SRS? Surgical indication to penile resection and removal of testes are not non-invasive, which permanently eliminate a biological function. No meaningful analogy or comparison can be made there, IMO.
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Male circumcision is certainly a controversial issue, and we have had threads on CAF about whether or not it should be completely banned. The health benefits of the procedure are open to debate. For those of us who practice circumcision because it is an important part of our religion, we are obligated to defend the ritual on religious principles. It is surely not regarded as child abuse under these circumstances. However, how then can we protest female circumcision based on religious principles? I am not sure.
Based on what religious principle? My impression was it is cultural, practiced in some cultures,

I also have not come across any health benefit associated with female genital cutting, or being claimed by cultures that perform it as a practice.
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Well, the circumcision practice is unchallenged in my natal family (coming from one with six boys, two of whom are medical doctors, and myself having two sons) as the benefits prove to outweigh the problems associated with non-circumcision. So we do not agree that it is unnecessary mutilation.

The opposing POV to circumcision is understandable, however, given accidents like the David Reimer case in the extreme and complaints on the level of sexual satisfaction of adults circumcised as babies on the other end of the spectrum.

Just curious, since I have not gone on any thread on circumcision, how would adult males circumcised as babies know about the levels of sexual satisfaction, since babies do not have sex? I don’t even think pre- pubertal boys engage in sex, to the point of ejaculation. I can understand the claim in circumcision on older or adult males, with sexual experience pre and post circumcision.

As current child delivery policy in hospitals, newborn males do not get circumcised, unless there is a pre-delivery instruction by the birthing mother. My husband and I did not know this until after C-sect delivery of our firstborn, a son, so we had the pediatrician do it after, but the procedure could only be scheduled after I was discharged. Meaning a trip to the hospital was necessary soon after leaving the hospital, not fun for a new post C-sect mother! Besides my gripe that I could have been spared of post-circumcision care of my baby, the nurses would have been doing it for at least two / three days. The next time we had our baby (again a son) we knew better and thereby pre-arranged our baby’s circumcision after delivery. As an aside, although I am not Jewish, I attended (joyfully) two bris ceremonies to which I was invited.

One can reasonably consider that removal of penile foreskin is not much more invasive than removal of a pesky in-the-way skin tag. But SRS? Surgical indication to penile resection and removal of testes are not non-invasive, which permanently eliminate a biological function. No meaningful analogy or comparison can be made there, IMO.
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From this post:
“Male circumcision results in permanent changes in the appearance and functions of the penis. These include artificial exposure of the glans, resulting in its keratinization and altered appearance. Additionally, circumcision results in loss of 30–50% of the penile skin, loss of at least 10,000–20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings, loss of reciprocal stimulation of foreskin and glans, and loss of the natural coital gliding mechanism, etc. From the point of view of sensation and function, the most important effect is caused by the tissue loss itself. The most sensitive part of the penis is removed, and the normal mechanisms of intercourse and erogenous stimulation are disturbed.”
 
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