Bullfighting: Justify Cruelty with Tradition

[Crescentinus]

The “for” side simply is the view that bullfighting isn’t wrong. Since you don’t think it’s wrong, you’re “for” it in the sense I’m using.

So you see this as an “Either you’re with me or against me” type of issue? I’m sorry, but you had failed to take the neutral side into consideration.

 

[triumphguy]

Bull fighting is part of some people’s cultural heritage. Let them be with. Here we are in the USA and our most popular sport takes 20 years of life away from the average professional player. Not only does this typical player die 20 years early, the last 10 years of his life is spent battling dementia.
And we are critical of the Spanish for enjoying bullfighting?

Video games?

 

[Crescentinus]

Also, most of us in the CAF do not know of the other bullfighting variants both Iberian and non-Iberian.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Another reason people opposed traditional Spanish bullfighting wasn’t just because of the pain inflicted on the bulls by humans but also because of the pain the bulls inflicted on the horses of the picadores.

This is true…but at the same time, Portuguese and Spanish equestrian ethics can be some of the highest in the world of horsemen.

I have very mixed feelings about bullfighting. I am in fact against it, for many of the reasons other people have already stated. However, I understand why from an Iberian perspective it’s considered an art form and a noble pursuit, though I don’t agree with the morality of it in regards to the bull and horse.

I have a Portuguese horse, a Lusitano, whose sire was a bullfighting horse in Mexico. They are very brave and agile animals. Though I’ll repeat that I think bullfighting is unethical, I also know from my experience with these horsemen and this breed of horse that it’s a more complicated issue than it seems to be to most American eyes.

 

[triumphguy]

They have cow fighting in Switzerland.

 

[Crescentinus]

Bull fighting is part of some people’s cultural heritage. Let them be with. Here we are in the USA and our most popular sport takes 20 years of life away from the average professional player. Not only does this typical player die 20 years early, the last 10 years of his life is spent battling dementia.
And we are critical of the Spanish for enjoying bullfighting?

In my culture, fighting is part of cultural heritage even before the Europeans came to the shores. Yes, the Tagalogs have fighting as part of the cultural heritage, albeit one that is not that well-known.

 

[meltzerboy]

Bull fighting is part of some people’s cultural heritage. Let them be with. Here we are in the USA and our most popular sport takes 20 years of life away from the average professional player. Not only does this typical player die 20 years early, the last 10 years of his life is spent battling dementia.
And we are critical of the Spanish for enjoying bullfighting?

Which popular sport are you talking about: football? How about the health cost due to boxing?

 

[Corki]

Which popular sport are you talking about: football? How about the health cost due to boxing?

not to mention that MMA fighting.

 

[spencelo]

That there is not unequivocal, universal condemnation of bullfighting among Catholic posters on here is a fact I find disturbing (there is no room for reasonable nuanced views, IMO). As I said in my post, ethical truths can be a very simple matter, but often getting people to see them – and live by them – is not.

 

[triumphguy]

That there is not unequivocal, universal condemnation of bullfighting among Catholic posters on here is a fact I find disturbing (there is no room for reasonable nuanced views, IMO). As I said in my post, ethical truths can be a very simple matter, but often getting people to see them – and live by them – is not.

Oh… the penny drops… so you are to be our moral compass.

Wow.

Thanks: I don’t know where we would be without you.:hypno:

 

[Crescentinus]

This is true…but at the same time, Portuguese and Spanish equestrian ethics can be some of the highest in the world of horsemen.

Spanish, Hungarian, Portuguese and Austrian equestrian ethics can some of the highest in the world, or at least in Europe. In Asia, it’s more of the Japanese equestrians. From what I’ve heard, Filipino equestrian ethics are mostly based from the European model.

 

[Crescentinus]

They have cow fighting in Switzerland.

In Okinawa, Japan, there’s bull sumo mostly influenced by Japanese from the main islands.
In South Korea and in parts of the Philippines, there’s bull-on-bull battles.

 

[Crescentinus]

not to mention that MMA fighting.

Pro wrestling can also be very dangerous, albeit not technically a sport. Even with the best safety precautions, certain moves are very dangerous.

 

[Corki]

That there is not unequivocal, universal condemnation of bullfighting among Catholic posters on here is a fact I find disturbing (there is no room for reasonable nuanced views, IMO). As I said in my post, ethical truths can be a very simple matter, but often getting people to see them – and live by them – is not.

That anyone, Catholic or not, feels there is “no room for reasonable nuanced views” in any civilized conversation is a fact I find disturbing.

 

[meltzerboy]

That there is not unequivocal, universal condemnation of bullfighting among Catholic posters on here is a fact I find disturbing (there is no room for reasonable nuanced views, IMO). As I said in my post, ethical truths can be a very simple matter, but often getting people to see them – and live by them – is not.

I’m against animal cruelty and bullfighting, but am still willing to be open to the argument based on cultural tradition. Sometimes one can learn a thing or two by listening to the opposition.

 

[Crescentinus]

What are you talking about? There are two mutually exclusive and exhaustive categories: those who think bullfighting is wrong, and those who think it’s morally permissible. The agnostic group isn’t part of my count.

Then, it is highly unfair for the agnostic side to be lumped with the supporters. Personally, I’m insulted by it.

 

[Crescentinus]

I’m against animal cruelty and bullfighting, but am still willing to be open to the argument based on cultural tradition. Sometimes one can learn a thing or two by listening to the opposition.

^This!
In my case, I have listened to both sides of the debate.

 

[spencelo]

That anyone, Catholic or not, feels there is “no room for reasonable nuanced views” in any civilized conversation is a fact I find disturbing.

Rape is wrong, unequivocally. Are there any “reasonable nuanced views” on the matter?

 

[spencelo]

I’m against animal cruelty and bullfighting, but am still willing to be open to the argument based on cultural tradition. Sometimes one can learn a thing or two by listening to the opposition.

The “cultural tradition” argument is patently invalid: it argues for the permissibility of a practice on the basis that there is a long, established tradition for it. In other words, just because bullfighting has been going on for a long time, and people love it, it doesn’t follow that there is anything okay with it.

 

[Nabooru]

A boxer, wrestler, or football player willfully engages in the sport, despite the risk of which he is well aware.

Animals cannot give their consent. And it is wrong, under any circumstances, to kill for sport. Period. Killing for food or self-defense is one thing. To delight in the bloodshed of any being, human or animal, indicates a deep depravity on the part of the participant. In fact, animal torture and abuse is one of the key features of a serial killer (zoosadism).

Don’t hide behind the tradition argument. Gladiatorial fighting was a great roman tradition, and in its case many gladiators knew what they were doing, and at least had a chance of survival and glory. In fact gladiatorial combat existed into the Christian Era on this one excuse. To say that a prolonged, agonizing death of an animal whose last hours are spent being deliberately angered and maddened is acceptable due to “tradition” is one of the sort cases of cultural relativism one can proffer.