Bullying and Gossip at Church

[EasterJoy]

Altargirl… just saying and complaining about your pastors direction to a priest under his authority is inappropriate to the nth degree if the pastor says a behavior is

overly affectionate and publicly indiscreet

Yep.

Listen to your pastor, and do as he says. I say this as someone involved in altar serving and various other types of lay assistance at Mass: If you can’t do that without question, then quit serving at the altar. No “yeah buts”, no “you don’t understands”, no “that doesn’t apply to me”. It applies to you. Do it.

 

[Lorelei12]

Altargirl ,all your posts on this forum have been about your relationships with priests,asking whether their behavior was inappropriate or complaining that others view yours as inappropriate just saying and complaining about your pastors direction to a priest under his authority is inappropriate to the nth degree if the pastor says a behavior is its overly affectionate and publicly indiscreet end of story.

Interesting. In going back and looking at these threads, OP…your first was asking about the appropriateness of this priest “pulling you close and kissing you deeply on the cheek” but only when no one else was around. You yourself questioned whether he had romantic feelings for you, and yet on this thread you seem utterly confused by the fact that someone reported this.

 

[EasterJoy]

Interesting. In going back and looking at these threads, OP…your first was asking about the appropriateness of this priest “pulling you close and kissing you deeply on the cheek” but only when no one else was around. You yourself questioned whether he had romantic feelings for you, and yet on this thread you seem utterly confused by the fact that someone reported this.

She is a nineteen year old laywoman. She is by no means a child, but it is the ordained party and his superior, those in a position of trust and authority, who ought to be entirely responsible for keeping this relationship appropriate. Not every woman of her age and in her position is naïve with regards to her true position, but she ought to be given the benefit of that doubt, as well. She should do her part, but she is vulnerable to the direction of those who have been given that position of trust. Even if a much-older woman were to actively seek an inappropriate relationship with a priest, fully knowing what she was doing to the extent of serious moral offense, the responsibility for keeping anything inappropriate from actually happening lies primarily with the priest and his superiors.

 

[paperwight66]

Well Easterjoy, if your hypothesis is true, then clearly every single priest I’ve known in the last 6 years (there have been many) are all twisted predators out to get ‘vulnerable women’, through demonstrating physical affection!

I will reiterate what I said before in case you misread- where I live, it is completely normal for a priest to demonstrate physical affection to his parishioners/friends, so as the subject of this thread dictates, my concerns are on the resentful individual who has despised me for some unknown reason since last September, not whether the affection shown by my friend is thought by a minority to be inappropriate.

Ummmm. I live in the UK too, and I have to disagree with you Priests in the UK do NOT kiss everyone, and certainly not young women. . I have seen elderly ladies sometimes approaching the priest with a kiss, and yes, at Easter and Christmas it is acceptable for women to kiss the priest at the door as part of the general hub-bub after Midnight Mass. But not as a general rule.
You are playing with fire,my dear.

 

[agnes_therese]

Interesting. In going back and looking at these threads, OP…your first was asking about the appropriateness of this priest “pulling you close and kissing you deeply on the cheek” but only when no one else was around. You yourself questioned whether he had romantic feelings for you, and yet on this thread you seem utterly confused by the fact that someone reported this.

She also said, in that first post on the other thread, “why is he treating me differently to everyone else?” But now she complains when we question that, saying priests treat everyone that way.

There are HUGE red flags all over this situation!

 

[Chorister1980]

Well I was going to stand in your corner!

I’m in the UK (the west coast of Scotland) and it is completely normal to greet people with a kiss on the cheek and a handshake/hug. Infact at the inauguration of the Archbishop of Glasgow that is precisely how he greeted almost everyone in the room at the reception after the Mass.

However, I have read your previous posts.

In the nicest possible way, you sound like a daft wee girl, which you are not, your a grown woman who should know what is and isn’t appropriate levels of affection between friends. Especially when that friend is a priest.

A public peck on the cheek and a hug, fine.

A hidden relationship (you said in another thread you go places together but he doesn’t tell the other priests he works with he is out with you) and inappropriate affection, not fine.

I’m not putting the blame at anyone’s door here, btw, you are both adults and responsible for your own actions.

I would be interested to know just how much older he is than you, in my opinion there is only so much a 19yo woman and say a 35yo man can have in common.

 

[EasterJoy]

…I would be interested to know just how much older he is than you, in my opinion there is only so much a 19yo woman and say a 35yo man can have in common.

It is possible that they have a great deal in common and like to discuss theology, the lives of their pedigreed cocker spaniels, and American baseball, but would still be besides the point. As you point out, a priest who is hiding any of his friendships from the other priests is putting out major red flags. He needs to stop doing things that even the other priests “wouldn’t understand.” Not good, not good at all. This is how priests act who wind up leaving the priesthood!

 

[Debora123]

Hi there,

I’m relatively new to this forum, so forgive me if this thread is posted in the wrong forum.

I’m writing to express my concerns and sadness at being indirectly bullied and gossiped about at my regular parish in which I act as an altar server and member of the student’s Catholic Society committee, hoping that someone on here may be able to offer me some guidance about how to tackle the situation.

Avoiding complexity, I have become quite good friends with one of the priests at the Church/priory, and someone maliciously reported our friendship to the head of the priory about 6 weeks ago, accusing us of being overly affectionate and publicly indiscreet (I hardly call hugging and the occasional kiss on the cheek as 'overly affectionate!), leading the head priest to have ‘stern words’ with my friend about his so called ‘indiscreet affection’ towards me, and giving me stern looks of suspicion every time he has seen me since (despite my friend informing him that nothing bad was going on). This malicious rumour has further caused strains on our friendship, particularly as we must now be artificially ‘careful’ not to advertise it.

Well to cut a long story short, though no names were mentioned, I am pretty certain of who reported us (another altar server), as I always felt he had a vendetta against me since the first day I arrived at this parish, and thus saw my friendship with this priest as a chance to make that obvious. He further threw a spanner into the works by approaching me yesterday evening and informing me that I am not needed at Sunday morning masses (as I serve on both Saturday nights and Sunday mornings), as there are too many altar servers, so he is having to reduce numbers. I find this very hard to believe, considering that every time I’ve served at Sunday Mass there haven’t been enough of us to fulfil every function, and so I am also thinking that this is a further attempt to ‘terminate’ the friendship I have with this priest.

So, having read this, I hope you can understand the sadness I feel, as such personal hostility I find is making me feel unneeded and worthless- especially because I have only been at this parish since last September, and have been made to feel unwelcome by some, from the very beginning. I further hope that someone can offer me some guidance as to what to do, as I feel that this situation, if true, should be dealt with.

Thanks, and God Bless.

Ugh… I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

Isn’t there anybody else in your parish (authority figure) you could talk to about ALL of this? And perhaps even confront this other server as to why he cut you out of Sunday mass?

 

[Chorister1980]

It is possible that they have a great deal in common and like to discuss theology, the lives of their pedigreed cocker spaniels, and American baseball, but would still be besides the point. As you point out, a priest who is hiding any of his friendships from the other priests is putting out major red flags. He needs to stop doing things that even the other priests “wouldn’t understand.” Not good, not good at all. This is how priests act who wind up leaving the priesthood!

I take your point, I’m a 32yo woman and know a number of 19yo women, some I have a lot in common with, other not so much, however they are not amongst my closest friends and I’m not likely to spend time with them one to one, so I was coming from a point of view of my own experience I suppose!

Hidden friendships I agree are worrying.

 

[EasterJoy]

I take your point, I’m a 32yo woman and know a number of 19yo women, some I have a lot in common with, other not so much, however they are not amongst my closest friends and I’m not likely to spend time with them one to one, so I was coming from a point of view of my own experience I suppose!

Hidden friendships I agree are worrying.

Some people can barely speak up in a group, but only have really good conversations when it is one-on-one. I can understand that. But yes, spending a lot of time with a non-relative, especially one of vastly different authority than you, can have its pitfalls. It should not be considered safe until proven otherwise. The dangers ought to be taken account well before they become apparent.

I kind of suspect that the OP is vulnerable to criticism and perhaps to spending a bit too much time with her priest friend because she is new to the parish and hasn’t made other friends yet. Many people connect more quickly with the priests because they trust them and, let’s face it, priests tend to be personable, intelligent and enjoyable to be around. Meanwhile, the other parishioners don’t know her or how to interpret what she says and does. If she could make one or two friends among the other young laypeople, that will help her out a lot, including dealing with the other altar server that she thinks does not like her.

I say “thinks” because it can be a sign of caring for someone who sees what might be an inappropriate relationship starting to develop between a priest and one of the parishioners to mention something to the pastor (even if that pastor is that priest). That is not an act of passive-aggression, per se. It can simply be an act of prudence, and in the best interests of all. If someone were to post here that one of his fellow altar servers, who is new to the parish, seemed to be getting unusually chummy with an associate pastor, I think we’d all suggest that it be brought to the attention of the pastor, even though we’d have to reserve judgment about whether anything really was amiss. Better safe than sorry.

Still, if the other altar server really is a pain, she’ll find better solace than we can give here by hanging out with others who suffer from his unaddressed spiritual faults. They can help her navigate the waters, and help her to feel better about herself while doing it. That’s what real-life friends are for! If they aren’t reaching out to her yet, maybe she can reach out to one or two of them.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Do you honestly think it’s appropriate for a married man to be hugging and cheek-kissing a single young woman?

Priests aren’t single. They are married spiritually. Their heart is not to be divided, but completely dedicated to God.

 

[Joy2day]

Do you honestly think it’s appropriate for a married man to be hugging and cheek-kissing a single young woman?

Priests aren’t single. They are married spiritually. Their heart is not to be divided, but completely dedicated to God.

This is very true - the priest’s heart must be with God. There is a chance that this friendship does not threaten his love of God & that it is completely secondary to God - he might feel he is actually performing an act of charity. What matters is interior disposition & possibly we should let the individuals involved work that out. Maybe the priest is italian & kisses on the cheek regularly. Personally i wouldnt care unless the OP actually wanted to tempt the priest -.she is not saying that she’s ‘keen’ on him. It takes two. Sometimes women might spend time with a priest cause they feel he’s a safe man - ie. a man they’re not going to have to worry about hitting on them. A man they could be friends with with no strings attached & who could maybe bring them closer to God. Does anyone have male friends they spend platonic time with? If the priest is keen on the OP & is going to disobey - he’ll find a way eventually if that’s what he wants to do - whether with her or another woman. So if you’re all truly worried about this - then thats what you’ve got to look forward to - its just a matter of time!

 

[Joy2day]

bloody hilarious soap opera

no need to watch Jerry Springer with this going on.

poor poor altergirl so misunderstood, it isn’t her fault that she is 19 and the priest is what in his 30s and looks like a supermodel i assume.

would be creepy and a different story if he was in his 70s!. Woooo i bet your boyfriend gets really jealous too huh !?

Altergirl fyi, if ya were not looking for such negative responses and or negative critisism perhaps just limiting your story to people are talking about me and i am being bullied would have sufficed instead of giving such details about it involving a priest. OR you could just take it up with the priest if it is such a problem , or heck even the bishop of your diocese.

But i am more inclined to guess that this story is complete bs and someone is having a good time at everyones expense.

Yes - i totally agree with your assessment. It is hilarious - i am nearly falling off my chair. Keep it coming - what’s next? I suppose all jokes are in humour as long as no one gets hurt??

 

[Xantippe]

“So if you’re all truly worried about this - then thats what you’ve got to look forward to - its just a matter of time!”

There’s also the OP to worry about.

On reflection (having read altargirl’s other posts), I’m going to offer the (for this forum) unusual advice of urging her to spend less time doing churchy things and more time dating young men her age or a little older (25 tops). Go on real dates with young men who are free to like you “that way” and acquire some more worldly wisdom (without sinning, of course) rather than hanging around this guy.

I remember myself at 19 being 1) technically grownup but 2) naive and very vulnerable to an older guy who thought I was hot stuff. It’s a tricky age, especially for a social late-bloomer (which is how I read the OP).

Again, as people have said, a mature 30-something has really very little in common with a 19-year-old, even of the same gender. I’m a 30-something mother, and my friends are almost all other 30-something mothers, because we have the most life experience in common. If I were hanging around a 19-year-old boy, it would most likely be because I was up to no good.

 

[Joy2day]

I mean that if he really *is *being criticized for having done nothing out of the ordinary with her whatsoever compared to other women in the parish just like her, if the complaints really *are *totally made up, then that is not fair, but his reputation still has to be protected from that attack, unfair as it is. She needs to bend over backwards to do that for him, even though the other young women may not do that. That is what friends do for their friends.

I dont think you should tell her to bend over backwards for him = mixed messages, dont you think?

 

[Joy2day]

Wish you were right John but this goes on all the time. Some little girls (17 or 18) almost ruined a priest of my acquaintance life due to their silly notions about him. He was a perfect gentleman but had the adacity of being born very handsome. He was prey don’t ya know.

Annie

I’m confused: wasnt the priest supposed to be the predator? Now the ‘young girl’ is the predator… Maybe the other altar server is also a predator!? Seriously, if this was my parish & i had you lot as the old women in the pews - i’d go right up to the priest after mass & plant a big long wet one right on his mouth & tell him loudly that i’d see him later! You actually need something real to talk about.

 

[Annie39]

I’m confused: wasnt the priest supposed to be the predator? Now the ‘young girl’ is the predator… Maybe the other altar server is also a predator!? Seriously, if this was my parish & i had you lot as the old women in the pews - i’d go right up to the priest after mass & plant a big long wet one right on his mouth & tell him loudly that i’d see him later! You actually need something real to talk about.

LOL I’m guessing that you are very young and inexperienced.

 

[Allegra]

LOL I’m guessing that you are very young and inexperienced.

Hopefully most people are inexperienced in luring priests. I know I am.

 

[EasterJoy]

I dont think you should tell her to bend over backwards for him = mixed messages, dont you think?

She is not bending over backwards for him, she is bending over backwards for his priesthood, just as if he were a married friend she would bend over backwards for his marriage, although to be very blunt I hope that every Catholic would bend over backwards to preserve the good reputations of their friends and to preserve other souls from scandal, regardless of the person’s state of life.

If you are a true friend of a married person, you must be a true friend of his or her marriage.
If you are a true friend of a priest, you must be a true friend of his priesthood.
Those are not negotiable. Even if your friend’s marriage is breaking up or the priest has to leave the priesthood, you cannot act in ways that violate the dignity of either marriage or the priesthood. There is no excuse for that.

 

[Allegra]

She is not bending over backwards for him, she is bending over backwards for his priesthood, just as if he were a married friend she would bend over backwards for his marriage, although to be very blunt I hope that every Catholic would bend over backwards to preserve the good reputations of their friends and to preserve other souls from scandal, regardless of the person’s state of life.

If you are a true friend of a married person, you must be a true friend of his or her marriage.
If you are a true friend of a priest, you must be a true friend of his priesthood.
Those are not negotiable. Even if your friend’s marriage is breaking up or the priest has to leave the priesthood, you cannot act in ways that violate the dignity of either marriage or the priesthood. There is no excuse for that.

I think she was joking. I also thought “bend over backwards” was a ironic choice of words.