Burke: “There is a strong sense that the Church is like a ship without a helm”

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I don’t understand how mentioning what is already publicly known - that Cardinal Burke has been reassigned - can be understood as being “disrespectful” to him.
 
Please let us all be more responsible in the way we comment on such issues.I was suprised many of us on this forum rushed directly to false conclusions about Cardinal Burke or the Pope without even reading the whole article in full or seeking a proper translation.Honestly,it is shameful when we, call ourselves catholic Christians and behave like this. Lets pray for each other for more wisdom from God.:signofcross:
 
McCall1981 said:
vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/sinodo-famiglia-37234/

Burke: “There is a strong sense that the Church is like a ship without a helm”

In an interview with Spanish weekly “Vida Nueva” the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura hits out again, describing the Church as a “counter-cultural movement that is not popular”

ANDREA TORNIELLI
VATICAN CITY

After his criticisms about the Synod being manipulated and censored, the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, is continuing to raise concerns – in an increasingly distressed tone – about the direction the Church is taking, criticising the Pope, whilst at the same time claiming he does not wish it seem like he is speaking out against he Pope.” His latest interview with Darío Menor Torres was published by Spanish religious news weekly Vida Nueva.

“Many have expressed their concerns to me. At this very critical moment, there is a strong sense that the Church is like a ship without a helm, whatever the reason for this may be; now, it is more important than ever to examine our faith, have a healthy spiritual leader and give powerful witness to the faith.”

(Read the rest there)
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Thanks McCall for posting this timely article:thumbsup:. God Bless Cardinal Burke. He has asked that we should pray the Chaplet to the Holy Face of Jesus.

On a positive side note, Cardinal Burke is only 66 years old, that gives me lots of HOPE for the future. May our Lord & Blessed Mother protect, guide & keep him safe. we need him!

:highprayer::signofcross::gopray2:
 
Mulligan2 said:
You may have noticed that the Moderator (post # 7) would already have noticed Mulligan2’s comments (post # 6). :rolleyes:

Personal experiences often impact one’s views on various topics. I was curious if that was the case here. How is that being disrespectful? I would suggest that the contents of the thread article is infinitely more disrespectful, as it is directed at the Pope.
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Greetings…Perhaps Cardinal Burke instead of going to the media with his concern about whos in charge of the ship…he might have a one on one with the Captain of the ship. Sending love and light!
 
It would be a little, no not a little but rather very much, insulting of both the faithful and the leadership of the Church if we were to affirm the notion that the Church appears at this time in history to be clear in goals and intentions.

Insulting of our intelligence and common sense. The whole world knows the Church is faced with huge problems brought on by clash of cultures, competing personalities, weak faith, divergence in belief, financial challenges and in some cases outright attacks against her from both within and without.

Appears without a helm?

Why, yes, of course appearing without a helm. Often a ship in a terrible storm appears without a helm! Her decks are awash and she is from many vantage points now sinking, now bobbing up above the waves.

Agree with Pope Francis or not, it is obvious he sees the Church as in need of a form of direction change some of which Cardinal Burke would very much support {New Evangelization}. Having said that, the Holy Father has many detractors who see his zeal and leadership as not providing a crystal clear direction or possibly of being too liable to misinterpretation or worse.

For myself, I am very glad we are hearing the issues addressed. There is no doubt there is disagreement among some outspoken Bishops on very important issues. And yes it does indeed appear to be a good time for the ancient articles of our faith to be revisited. I mean, such a revisitation is never a bad idea.

It is high time this disagreement is exposed and fleshed out.

To again use the analogy of a ship in a storm, as I see it with have the Master {who would be Christ by the way, not the Pope} and then we have the Chief Mate {Our Lady the Blessed Virgin Mary the Mother of the Church} calmly standing in the forecastle while the Second Mate {Pope Francis} stands at the wheel, struggling with a ship that seems not to want to stay straight into the wind and sometimes appearing to be subjected to crosswinds the turning into may be just the right idea or possibly dangerous indeed.

And around the Second Mate we have the Third Mate and Chief Engineer {I’ll let you decide they are} who along with various Able Bodied Seamen offer, no, at times yell, this suggestion after that, some good, some bad at the Second Mate.

And all the time the Master and Chief Mate observe, confident, smiling.

Sometimes frowning.

But all the time knowing the storm will pass.
 
The link on the first post does not work.

I want to say that Pope Francis is urgently inclusive at this time. I sense as many do, that something big is in action right now.

Dear Pope Francis’ actions are like that of a parent calling desperately all children in before the storm. :two cents:

God IS at the helm.
 
Good grief, the Church has appeared to be without a helm time and time again in history.

Remember the Apostles hiding out after the Crucifixion?

Yeah, here’s what Cardinal Burke said;

" there is a strong sense that the Church is like a ship without a helm".

Like that is a controversial statement?

Did the Church appear to be WITH a helm during the Arian controversy? How about during the Reformation? You think the average Frenchman thought all was solid during the French Revolution?

Take heart, folks.
 
Dear all, here is my choice of Cardinal Burke’s words
“We need to set aside the reason for this disorientation because we have not lost our bearings”

How does that sound?

Please,let us all understand that we are a family together in this ship. We are different, we make mistakes,but let us not feed division. We may have our preferences, and rescuing what is positive is always a choice.Let us help each other.

God bless you all. Sincerely.
 
Valdemar said:
Good grief, the Church has appeared to be without a helm time and time again in history.

Remember the Apostles hiding out after the Crucifixion?

Yeah, here’s what Cardinal Burke said;

" there is a strong sense that the Church is like a ship without a helm".

Like that is a controversial statement?

Did the Church appear to be WITH a helm during the Arian controversy? How about during the Reformation? You think the average Frenchman thought all was solid during the French Revolution?

Take heart, folks.
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See, the Cardinals’ words aren’t in first person. He seems to be responding to concerns he’s heard, by using words such as “perception,” “seems,” etc.

The more I read the first half of the article, there seems to be subtext regarding the hierarchy. The more I read the rest, there seems to be a reassurance that even though there’s been a bit of a dust-up, we should rest assure we are, indeed, one Church!

I now haz a bit of a confuzzled. :whacky:
 
sdegutis said:
Please close this thread. This is scandal.
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Are you referring to the thread, the article or both?

I think the article is provocatively framed, but fundamentally, Cardinal Burke seems to simply be identifying the perception that many people feel this way. He doesn’t appear to me to be attacking the pope. It seems clear from some of the posters here that he is correct about how some people feel.

I don’t feel that way, but I can appreciate that Burke is identifying the was that some Catholics feel. We don’t want to ignore those people or sweep them under the rug.
 
I think that Cardinal Burke has not only a right but an OBLIGATION to speak up if he feels that there is an issue that needs addressing.
 
Miserissima said:
See, the Cardinals’ words aren’t in first person. He seems to be responding to concerns he’s heard, by using words such as “perception,” “seems,” etc.

The more I read the first half of the article, there seems to be subtext regarding the hierarchy. The more I read the rest, there seems to be a reassurance that even though there’s been a bit of a dust-up, we should rest assure we are, indeed, one Church!

I now haz a bit of a confuzzled. :whacky:
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Yes and yes.

We live in a time of chaos. “Catholic Believers” want to live however they choose and still remain “Catholic”. Non-Catholic professing Christians want to speak to the Holy Father as if he is their buddy, a friend and equal among equals. Enemies of the Church who seek its complete destruction and the killing of those who profess the Catholic faith demand to be treated with respect as they preach their dogma of hate. National leaders want to live and govern as pagans all the while demanding to be treated as righteous among the faithful, members in good standing in the Church of Christ. Doctors kill. Sex is a pastime like tennis. Family is made up of whatever some gut urge says it is. Love means self aggrandizement and peace is merely a lull in the fighting.

And all among this soup of mayhem the Church remains and indeed in her message struggles to keep up with it all.

Smooth sailing?

Hardly.

And yes, AGAIN, it appears or maybe I should type it “appears” to be without a helm.

And in some very real ways many can be forgiven for saying so, especially those in the world outside her doors when they seek clarity and obtain clouds.

Yet it has all been thus before.

Part of the trouble with all of us is that we have {at least in the USA and most of Western Europe} lived in such wealth and safety that we have collectively forgotten just how much evil there exists in the world and how broken the world is. We have forgotten the Borgias and other periods of time when things were not quite right even within the Church at various levels. We expect perfection when Christ Himself promises trouble.

At such times as these let us all gain a renewed understanding and commitment to the foundations and proven lessons of our faith.

“Pray, hope and don’t worry”.

And remember the motto of my Patron Saint; ‘Unanimiter et constanter’.

And let us work hard and await the unfolding of the will of the Father in the movement of the Holy Spirit. I do believe we will see our Lord at work in more clear ways in the coming year, and Cardinal Burke’s observations indicate some of the reasons why, namely, because it is becoming obvious that the people actually need the clarity many do not see.
 
Funny how some things are all a matter of perspective.

It sounds like right now there is a wing of the church panicking because there are potential changes on the horizon. As Cardinal Burke says, there are many Catholics who are confused and befuddled by the very notion that the Catholicism of their generation won’t look identical to the Catholicism of the next generation.

But to suggest that the Church is somehow lost because it is going in a direction he doesn’t like? Maybe instead of constantly airing his grievances before the press he should just nail a list of his objections to the door of a church?

There are lots of Catholics who were repeatedly disappointed with the statements and posture of the last pope, who felt like he was retrogressive, like he was leading the church backwards instead of forwards.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, perhaps it behoves both sides of the Catholic aisle to think about how the other side must have felt then, and must feel now. Some Catholics feel hopeless because change seems possible, while other Catholics are filled with hope because change seems possible. As shepherd of both groups, Pope Francis has his work cut out for him.

I remember reading an interview with Pope Benedict, and to paraphrase he said that he viewed his papacy as a chance to give conservative Catholics a moment to catch their breath after Vatican II–he knew then that his successor would be a progressive-minded liberal, and that change would be hard for many people to accept; but he also viewed certain changes as a necessity, as good and positive at the appropriate time, in the spirit of Vatican II. I imagine for people suspicious of Vatican II that must seem threatening, but to people who accept the authority of the Church, it is a breath of fresh air.
 
1newcatholic said:
Funny how some things are all a matter of perspective.

It sounds like right now there is a wing of the church panicking because there are potential changes on the horizon. As Cardinal Burke says, there are many Catholics who are confused and befuddled by the very notion that the Catholicism of their generation won’t look identical to the Catholicism of the next generation.

But to suggest that the Church is somehow lost because it is going in a direction he doesn’t like? Maybe instead of constantly airing his grievances before the press he should just nail a list of his objections to the door of a church?

There are lots of Catholics who were repeatedly disappointed with the statements and posture of the last pope, who felt like he was retrogressive, like he was leading the church backwards instead of forwards.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, perhaps it behoves both sides of the Catholic aisle to think about how the other side must have felt then, and must feel now. Some Catholics feel hopeless because change seems possible, while other Catholics are filled with hope because change seems possible. As shepherd of both groups, Pope Francis has his work cut out for him.

I remember reading an interview with Pope Benedict, and to paraphrase he said that he viewed his papacy as a chance to give conservative Catholics a moment to catch their breath after Vatican II–he knew then that his successor would be a progressive-minded liberal, and that change would be hard for many people to accept; but he also viewed certain changes as a necessity, as good and positive at the appropriate time, in the spirit of Vatican II. I imagine for people suspicious of Vatican II that must seem threatening, but to people who accept the authority of the Church, it is a breath of fresh air.
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As a conservative and a Catholic I am at a loss at to just what exactly it is that Francis has done or said that differs from his predecessors?
 
estesbob said:
As a conservative and a Catholic I am at a loss at to just what exactly it is that Francis has done or said that differs from his predecessors?
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Actually, I don’t think he has DONE anything that is significantly variable from the range of actions any Pope might take. It is not a “done” thing, it is more the swirl and range of interpretations that come from his spoken words that leave many, and yes, it is many, confused.

I don’t see either the modernist or the orthodox in possession of a clear understanding of the Pope. The media on both sides of the spectrum is under no delusion that Pope Francis speaks clearly so they run with it; it has been discussed, argued, debated and written about since he became Pope. All sorts of reasons are given; bad translations, purposeful redaction of published messages and interviews by slanted media staff, purposeful speaking in parable-like fashion by the Pope himself, etc, etc.

To say this isn’t so is to ignore the widescale and sweeping assessment of his Papacy.

If there is agreement and clarity among Catholics and non-Catholics assessing Pope Francis’s tenure that agreement surrounds the not-so-clear sayings or interpretations of sayings he has put forth.

It is possible that this is exactly as he desires it to be. I have read as many have no doubt that this “style” is simply his Jesuit training made manifest in his his public life. In layman’s terms that is to stir the pot, extract every idea and argument from every source, expose all to scrutiny and see where the Holy Spirit leads us.

Then again in historical terms any Pope has the potential to be a “bad Pope”. The office is not immune to such possibilities according to the teaching of the Church and any assessment with integrity to the Magesterium must take that into account if action of a Pope indicate it.

Right now?

As I said before, I seriously doubt anyone can actually put forth a specific example of a “bad deed” done with intent to concretely alter teaching or lead the lost to perdition. But yet many still see the need for more clarity since some who DO seek to change the teachings of the Church find solace in the Vatican at this time.

In many ways I think we have reached the point where media access and comment, interpretation and assessment has become simply too much. We get tons of material dumped on us but as the Scripture says; “In the multitude of words there shall not want sin”.
 
Valdemar said:
Actually, I don’t think he has DONE anything that is significantly variable from the range of actions any Pope might take. It is not a “done” thing, it is more the swirl and range of interpretations that come from his spoken words that leave many, and yes, it is many, confused.

I don’t see either the modernist or the orthodox in possession of a clear understanding of the Pope. The media on both sides of the spectrum is under no delusion that Pope Francis speaks clearly so they run with it; it has been discussed, argued, debated and written about since he became Pope. All sorts of reasons are given; bad translations, purposeful redaction of published messages and interviews by slanted media staff, purposeful speaking in parable-like fashion by the Pope himself, etc, etc.

To say this isn’t so is to ignore the widescale and sweeping assessment of his Papacy.

If there is agreement and clarity among Catholics and non-Catholics assessing Pope Francis’s tenure that agreement surrounds the not-so-clear sayings or interpretations of sayings he has put forth.

It is possible that this is exactly as he desires it to be. I have read as many have no doubt that this “style” is simply his Jesuit training made manifest in his his public life. In layman’s terms that is to stir the pot, extract every idea and argument from every source, expose all to scrutiny and see where the Holy Spirit leads us.

Then again in historical terms any Pope has the potential to be a “bad Pope”. The office is not immune to such possibilities according to the teaching of the Church and any assessment with integrity to the Magesterium must take that into account if action of a Pope indicate it.

Right now?

As I said before, I seriously doubt anyone can actually put forth a specific example of a “bad deed” done with intent to concretely alter teaching or lead the lost to perdition. But yet many still see the need for more clarity since some who DO seek to change the teachings of the Church find solace in the Vatican at this time.

In many ways I think we have reached the point where media access and comment, interpretation and assessment has become simply too much. We get tons of material dumped on us but as the Scripture says; “In the multitude of words there shall not want sin”.
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Well put! And I think many within the Church are confused, as you point out, on both “sides.” I honestly think very few of us DO actually understand the Pope. A lot is being projected onto him. Far be it from me to compare myself to the Pope, I just feel that if I witnessed that kind of widespread confusion resulting from me, I would try to resolve it. Act of mercy. 😉 Maybe we’re to blame for doing the irresponsible projecting; I don’t know. I have no problem owning up to confusion here.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Well put! And I think many within the Church are confused, as you point out, on both “sides.” I honestly think very few of us DO actually understand the Pope. A lot is being projected onto him. Far be it from me to compare myself to the Pope, I just feel that if I witnessed that kind of widespread confusion resulting from me, I would try to resolve it. Act of mercy. 😉 Maybe we’re to blame for doing the irresponsible projecting; I don’t know. I have no problem owning up to confusion here.
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And to you; Well put!!
 
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