Bush at Pro-Life Rally

[Lisa_N]

jlw:

TPJ,

Him “phoning it in” fits perfectly with your position on the matter.

The truth is, even iIf he did go, you would still be cynical.

That’s ok, though. Don’t let up. Keep the pressure on.

No had he attended we’d have ten threads about the expense of the security and how that disrupted the March. Some people live to complain.

Lisa N

 

[Fitz]

Lisa N:

Yeah not to mention the loud voices of ministers from my FORMER denomination, Methodism. One of the major reasons I left that church in total disgust.

Lisa N

Here’s a great tip in case you missed it:

Drew Mariani is on Relevant Radio right now, go on the internet to find it if they don’t broadcast in your state. He is having a pro life show and he just said, he thinks we will overturn Roe v. Wade.
Norma is talking now.
www.relevantradio.com

They have a listen live icon on the top of the page. It is a great station.

 

[Trelow]

Lisa N:

Yeah not to mention the loud voices of ministers from my FORMER denomination, Methodism. One of the major reasons I left that church in total disgust.

Lisa N

Same boat sister.

 

[Lisa_N]

Fitz:

Here’s a great tip in case you missed it:

Drew Mariani is on Relevant Radio right now, go on the internet to find it if they don’t broadcast in your state. He is having a pro life show and he just said, he thinks we will overturn Roe v. Wade.
Norma is talking now.
www.relevantradio.com

They have a listen live icon on the top of the page. It is a great station.

Thanks I just pulled it up…off to listen!
Lisa N

 

[caroljm36]

Trelow:

If he was there wouldn’t it deepen the resolve of the libs to filibuster judicial appointments they might otherwise go easier on? If he came out guns ‘a’ blazin’ then much more resistance would be put up, it’s a hard enough sell as it is.

yeah yer right…but I can’t help but wish he were there. But the pro aborts and media would surely have had a cow.

 

[TPJCatholic]

jlw and Lisa,

I suppose it is easy on your hearts and minds to simply toss me into a category of being a complainer. However, perhaps, just perhaps, I might actually be making some good points. I could not give one whit about how much the security would cost for the President to go to a pro-life march–unborn lives have an infinite value. The simple reality is time for this President is already running low, second term Presidents become lame ducks very quickly and Bush has already used a great deal of political captial on the war on terror, social security reform and tax reform.

Time will tell–perhaps the President is pro-life, yet frankly he has not acted particularly pro-life since being re-elected. Prior to the election pro-life Christians and Catholics were his bread and butter groups, now we count for very little and has all but dropped the marriage amendment.

You know, it is an easy thing for a person to say they are pro-life, it is quite another to actually do something. Most of us can march, we can pray in-front of abortion clinics, and we can pray, pray, pray that God helps this nation rid the land of legal abortions. Yet, the President has a great deal of power and influence and he should be using that power and influence in every level he can----behind doors, and in the public eye.

The dems will not be fooled or tricked…we will never see abortion laws overturned if we are scared of the dems…nor will we see the opportunity we have (like we do today) for many decades.

My passion lies in the fact that everyday 4,000 human beings that God created are murdered and yet we worry about terror, we worry about social security, we worry about taxes, we worry about protecting gays from being hated, etc…where is the leadership that actually worries about the souls of the unborn baby holocaust that goes in perpetually?

So, go ahead and pidgeonhole me into being some sort of whiner or complainer–as I said before, I supported Bush very strongly (and I still do). The proof is in his actions, not in his political rhetoric.

Funny how hard it is to get minds to expand sometimes.

 

[jlw]

TPJ, a few things:

perhaps, just perhaps, I might actually be making some good points.

You are. Very good points.

You know, it is an easy thing for a person to say they are pro-life, it is quite another to actually do something.

Very true, especially in government.

So, go ahead and pidgeonhole me into being some sort of whiner or complainer

No, you are right to passionate. I share your concern. The only difference is all I am looking for is the judges…then I will cheer…or be disgusted THEN. I didn’t vote for legislation, I didn’t vote for rhetoric, I voted for JUDGES. They will come…and then we will see.

Two articles everyone should be interested in:

townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20050124.shtml

and

rockymountainnews.com/drmn/politics/article/0,1299,DRMN_35_3493933,00.html

 

[TPJCatholic]

jlw,

I am with you–the judges are the key. Yet, as I said last week, Frist is no longer considering re-writing the rules of the senate, which means that the dems can filibuster any judicialk nomination Bush sends to the floor. Perhaps Frist will have his mind changed, time will tell. Yet, if the dems are allowed to fillibuster (and you can bet they will with any Supreme Court vacancy), then we will be in a very weak position.

 

[Lisa_N]

TPJCatholic:

jlw and Lisa,

I suppose it is easy on your hearts and minds to simply toss me into a category of being a complainer. However, perhaps, just perhaps, I might actually be making some good points.

Time will tell–perhaps the President is pro-life, yet frankly he has not acted particularly pro-life since being re-elected. Prior to the election pro-life Christians and Catholics were his bread and butter groups, now we count for very little and has all but dropped the marriage amendment.

So, go ahead and pidgeonhole me into being some sort of whiner or complainer–as I said before, I supported Bush very strongly (and I still do). The proof is in his actions, not in his political rhetoric.

Funny how hard it is to get minds to expand sometimes.

Well there is also the reverse, that someone can be so open minded their brains fall out. IOW sometimes you have to be practical and IMO this is one of those times. Yes it would have been a wonderful SYMBOLIC gesture had President Bush participated in the march. But it would be just that, symbolic. Further there is always a downside to these actions. I think the point that this would inspire even MORE filibustering and opposition to prolife judicial appointments. It would be showing your cards way too early and getting the proaborts rallying to the cause. It would give Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer a new platform (no I cannot BEAR to hear those screechers again!). Further although YOU don’t care about the security and the cost, the reality is that would have been a flashpoint for the pro aborts… I can see the headlines $XXXXXX in taxpayer money so Bush can suck up to the pro lifers…blah blah blah.

You are right ACTION is the important thing. But I don’t particularly think that having President Bush at this march indicates what he will do in the future. I think that he CALLED and definitely sided with the culture of life puts him in a category different than other presidents. Did Clinton call or offer any supporting words? Heck did Bush the Elder? I don’t think so. How about Reagan? He talked a lot about prolife causes but he didn’t do as much as President Bush has done now.

I agree, keep the pressure on. But you sound so darned defeatest and regardless of the thread your posts come off as being a new opportunity to Bush bash. It might not be your intent but it comes across to me in that way. That is totally counterproductive IMO. This is politics, and smart politicians pick their battles and the hills they want to die on. Going to one march IMO is not one of those hills. Frankly I am MORE cheered by the increasingly panicked and shrill rhetoric coming from PP and their ilk. I received a totally paranoid letter begging for support as Bush “guts our reproductive rights.” Even if you don’t think Bush is doing anything, he’s got PP VERY VERY nervous (couldn’t happen to a nicer group!)

Lisa N

 

[TPJCatholic]

jlw,

From one of your links:

“It cannot be disputed that George W. Bush’s tone has changed since the election. The 22nd Amendment, prohibiting a third presidential term, is a two-way street. I reported last month that even loyal Republican lawmakers feel less constrained to follow a term-limited president. But that same president is under far less pressure to obey the demands of his political base.”

 

[jlw]

TPJCatholic:

jlw,

I am with you–the judges are the key. Yet, as I said last week, Frist is no longer considering re-writing the rules of the senate, which means that the dems can filibuster any judicialk nomination Bush sends to the floor. Perhaps Frist will have his mind changed, time will tell. Yet, if the dems are allowed to fillibuster (and you can bet they will with any Supreme Court vacancy), then we will be in a very weak position.

Yeah. AND… 55-45 looks a lot better than 51-49. There are a few red state dems who know they might need to AT LEAST grant an “up or down” vote to end debate for goodness sake!! Whether they actually vote for the judge is another, but I’ll be ok with a 50-50 tie and a Cheney tiebreaker any day of the week!!

 

[jlw]

TPJCatholic:

jlw,

From one of your links:

“It cannot be disputed that George W. Bush’s tone has changed since the election. The 22nd Amendment, prohibiting a third presidential term, is a two-way street. I reported last month that even loyal Republican lawmakers feel less constrained to follow a term-limited president. But that same president is under far less pressure to obey the demands of his political base.”

Again, I don’t dismiss your concern. That’s why I linked the story for all to see.

I just think we are blathering on (like Super Bowl hype) before the game (judge nominations and confirmations) is even played.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Lisa,

I do not care how I sound…my passion perhaps comes across as defeatist…I don’t care if it does or not (no insult intended). What I think you fail to acknowledge is that the dems plan to aggresively battle “any” and “all” attempts this President makes for life. They have already drawn their lines in the sand…there is zero chance that they can be swayed and we can count on fillibusters of every pro-life nomination–it is an absolute. The dems are not acting all cute and political, they are attacking,lying and distorting at every opportunity–it is a huge mistake in any battle to underestimate the opponent…the dems are ready, is Bush ready for a real battle, or is he looking to history for a kind legacy?

Had Bush gone to the march, it would have infuriated the pro-killers, but hey they are already infuriated with Bush…but, more importantly, it would have sent the signal that he is truly pro-life and not just a wish-washy guy who is seeking a legacy.

You say I am bashing Bush–Yep, you are totally correct, I am bashing Bush about his lack of strength regarding life and marriage (two issues he won election on). I do not see Bush as being our Pope, or as our savior. I see Bush as a fallible man that has a skewed and incomplete view of Christianity and morality (after all he is not Catholic). He is without doubt the strongest pro-life President we have had…but that does not mean anything to the babies who are dying this very day…

I will be totally ready to eat my words if Bush proves to be aggresively pro-life…I will rejoice in eating my words. Yet, I fear that I will never have to eat my words. I fear that this window of opportunity will pass us by! The dems will regain control again, everything goes in cycles…when they do regain control, it will take decades to get back what we have today.

Frist needs to be lead by Bush, Bush needs to put pressure on Frist to have the rules of the senate re-written to prevent any fillibustering of judges. I have sent my letters to everyone I can think of to advise them to do exactly that. Have you?

 

[TPJCatholic]

jlw,

I am raising these points so people here will scream their heads off so the repubs know that we will NOT vote for them if they let us down. They need to know this is non-negotiable…it is NOT to late for us to make them understand these points. If bad judges get in, then the game is over and the babies lose again!

Send your letters, join the voice that screams to our politicians that we want the murder of innocent babies stopped!

Yell it from the mountain tops before it is too late!

 

[catsrus]

I’ve never cared for Bush as a person or a politician but today I was VERY impressed that he took the time and initiative to call and speak to the pro-lifers at the rally. He gained many points with me today. I might also add that I can not imagine any other president doing such a thing as being so vocally pro-life. Plus he’s got pro-choice Laura to contend with on the home front.
So, thanks Mr. Bush for speaking up! :clapping:
Now, about that drilling in Alaska…

 

[Lisa_N]

TPJCatholic:

Lisa,

I do not care how I sound…my passion perhaps comes across as defeatist…I don’t care if it does or not (no insult intended).

You should care how you sound if you want other people to be swayed by your arguments. If you come off as having an agenda separate from the issue then IMO your argument loses traction. The prolife cause becomes little more than a red herring that is tossed out so that you can belittle President Bush.

I know you are passionate about the prolife cause but quite honestly you sound like it’s more important that we know you think Bush isn’t doing ‘anything’ despite much evidence to the contrary and much evidence that no previous president has done nearly as much.

TPJCatholic:

What I think you fail to acknowledge is that the dems plan to aggresively battle “any” and “all” attempts this President makes for life.

No I have made it very clear that I DO understand the Democrats’ position and tactics. That’s why I don’t think it would have made ANY difference to THEM whether Bush attended the march or not.

TPJCatholic:

They have already drawn their lines in the sand…there is zero chance that they can be swayed and we can count on fillibusters of every pro-life nomination–it is an absolute. The dems are not acting all cute and political, they are attacking,lying and distorting at every opportunity–it is a huge mistake in any battle to underestimate the opponent…the dems are ready, is Bush ready for a real battle, or is he looking to history for a kind legacy?

Look, EVERYTHING President Bush has done has demonstrated he doesn’t give a rat’s patooty what the Dem’s think, what the UN thinks, what the EU thinks. IOW he is not like Clinton, basing politics on polls. I think if he truly believes in the prolife cause (and I believe he does) he will neither understimate the opponent nor run from the battle. As he has said repeatedly with respect to the Iraq nation building, that the task is formidable doesn’t mean we should give up.

TPJCatholic:

Had Bush gone to the march, it would have infuriated the pro-killers, but hey they are already infuriated with Bush…but, more importantly, it would have sent the signal that he is truly pro-life and not just a wish-washy guy who is seeking a legacy.?

I give up. What can he DO in the next ten minutes about a decision that is over three decades old that has become more and more and more entrenched in our society? I remember the days pre Roe V Wade. Many people do not. As long as it has taken to make “the right to choose” part of our vernacular, I don’t see how it can be reversed overnight and certainly NOT by attending a march. That is symbolic, nothing more. I am far more impressed by the attempts he’s made to restrict abortion than whether he shows up at a rally.

TPJCatholic:

You say I am bashing Bush–Yep, you are totally correct, I am bashing Bush about his lack of strength regarding life and marriage (two issues he won election on).?

Again you are expecting too much too soon. This is a very longstanding decision. It has been fought over and over and our side has lost. The President was inaugurated what three days ago? Sheesh!

TPJCatholic:

I do not see Bush as being our Pope, or as our savior. I see Bush as a fallible man that has a skewed and incomplete view of Christianity and morality (after all he is not Catholic). He is without doubt the strongest pro-life President we have had…but that does not mean anything to the babies who are dying this very day…

Frist needs to be lead by Bush, Bush needs to put pressure on Frist to have the rules of the senate re-written to prevent any fillibustering of judges. I have sent my letters to everyone I can think of to advise them to do exactly that. Have you?

You’re right, he’s a fallible man and yet you expect him to perform miracles? Again, I give up. You seem to have very unrealistic expectations. Better to have part of something than all of nothing. And yes I’ve sent letters, emails, phone messages to everyone I can think of that may have influence. I donate money to several prolife causes and am involved in our respect life committee. So please don’t assume that everyone but you is a slacker.

Lisa N

 

[Jay74]

Bush is no dummy. He is also a much more skilled politician than he gets credit for (this works to his advantage, as his adversaries constantly underestimate him).

I believe that if he can end abortion, he will. I also think he has pro-life justices in mind. He is also aware, though, that if he ignites this issue before a seat is even open, his nominee will be hammered into the ground before they even get nominated.

I think he knows what he is doing. Let’s not bash him before he even makes his first of at least one, probably two, and possibly three justice appointments.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Lisa,

In the interest of trying to communicate with you more productively, I extend an apology for my rather harsh presentation style. You are quite correct to say that the way we present ourselves, and our views, is important…I do not want to drive people away. I stand corrected and I thank you for the correction—truly.

Let me take a different approach on the point I am trying to make.

Let us ponder the many Youth Days the Pope has attended. Think about the millions of young people streaming to be part of the crowd, part of the celebration of faith and life, part of the life and ministry of our wonderful Holy Father. Our Holy Father has inspired millions of young people across those Youth Days, and across many of his global visits to various lands and countries. Now, for just a second, try to imagine how the Pope’s witness and inspiring acts would have been diminished if the Pope called during those events, rather then actually being there celebrating Mass.

Picture President Bush (which btw I still support strongly) when he covertly went to Iraq on Thanksgiving Day to visit our troops. Think about how the soldiers were completely pumped-up and thrilled to see their Commander in Chief, think of how President Bush took an actual physical risk to visit the very men he is asking to fight for our country. He as placing his thoughts and words into actions and the press ate him alive for it and the dems attacked him for months (all the way up to the election). Yet, it was a very good thing to do for those men and President Bush did not seem to care about the possible political damage he might take (and he did take many political hits for that event). Try to imagine how that would have all played out if President Bush had simply called the troops on Thanksgiving Day.

Picture the time that President Bush flew onto that aircraft carrier, how he took an actual personal risk flying onto that deck. Think of the celebratory attitude he brought onto that vessel. Think of how much **** he took for doing that and for the months of harassment he got for the “Mission Accomplished” sign. Yet, it was a very good thing he did, and the brave men and women on that vessel deeply appreciated his actions. Try to imagine how that would have played if he merely called the vessel.

(continued next post)…

 

[TPJCatholic]

Lisa (continued),

Now, forward all of that (there are many other examples) to the march for life. President Bush has proclaimed himself to be a strongly pro-life person (and I do admit he is the most outspoken pro-life President since before Roe V. Wade). Try to imagine the impact it would have made had he shown up to the march and had given a speech defending life, with reasons why he is defending life. Imagine if President Bush used the same determined attitude about life, as he did when he flew to Iraq, or when he flew onto that aircraft carrier. When he flew to Iraq and onto the carrier he took physical risk, yet had he shown-up at the march he would have only had a political risk.

Please do not forget, there is no way to know when this battle will be won, the President must not only do everything he can to make abortion illegal now, but he must also convince the hearts of as many people (especially the young) of just how horrible abortion is. By showing-up, by personalizing the march, he would have impressed many hearts…yet calling it in does not have the same impact. Sure, it was nice he called, yet calls are cheap, actions (like his actions in Iraq and on the carrier) speak volumes and it raises the conversation level to incredible heights. We should welcome a raucous level of conversation about abortion.

The Pope takes it to the people because he knows that is where he belongs. President Bush brings it to the people when he wants the make the biggest mark. Ultimately, actions speak louder then words. Being there counts more then phone calls. It was a missed opportunity to strengthen and rally the troops—to make them feel emboldened and strong—to encourage thousands across the country to help in the battle. Sure, it would have also emboldened the other side, but heck they have been fighting hard for years on end, that has not changed and is not going to change. People follow strong, bold leaders. People need bold, brave and faithful leaders that step-out of the usual mold…that have the courage to truly stand for their convictions, just as President Bush was courageous to ignore the political ramifications of the invasion of Iraq.

This is a battle, and President Bush has the chance to be a true leader…it remains in hands to do so. We know we can count on the Pope to continue his walk bravely, and courageously…time will tell if the same can be said for President Bush.

I am not bashing President Bush—I am trying to get people to shout loudly so he knows we are all still here and so that the other repubs know we are here, and so that they all know we are going to hold them accountable for what they do, not what they say. We care about their actions—not their words.

Sorry again for my previously harsh tone.

 

[Lisa_N]

TPJ thanks for the reply. I know your passion for this cause makes it hard to sit calmly and wait, while babies are dying. I watched some of the EWTN coverage this morning and one of the guest speakers said 4000 would die in the time it took for the march. It is really sickening. But we cannot be disheartened. I think things are better than they have been and I agree that it would have been INSPIRATIONAL had President Bush even spent 30 seconds at the microphone.

But I believe also that he is truly interested in this cause and either may believe or his advisors may believe that his appearance at the March would have ignited a firestorm response. I think we need to keep pushing all the time. Don’t let up for a second but again let’s not give up even though every day means more deaths.
Tonight on a local radio program a man called in about his daughter. She was born at 22 weeks and he said he held her for her entire life, one hour and 45 minutes. He said anyone who believes that a preborn child is not a human being needs to do what he did and they’d change their mind. His daughter was absolutely perfect, absolutely human but she was not well developed enough to live outside the womb even with the kind of high tech we have now. He was totally in anguish that people would deliberately kill these babies when he and his wife lost theirs despite every effort to save her. It was so sad.

Lisa N