Bush statement on Libby order

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Now how are we going to argue about itr if we agree?
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There is one thing we know for sure-every Presdient is going to use the Pardon power and the oppostion party is always going to complain about it as if it had ever happened before.
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Ar least we are not seeing people caned nearly to death on the floor of the House.
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Bob,
You’re right…how can we argue when there are so many fools? As men of honor, we have to say that people, politicians, etal, however much we may like them…are humans capable of remarkably stupid…and potentially illegal acts.

Scooter is not a man worthy of jail time. In this case, the President did the right thing. And it took some tar to do it now.

But, regarding the caning…at least we had honest men on the floor then.
Hope you and your’s are well,

John
 
john1863 said:
Bob,
You’re right…how can we argue when there are so many fools? As men of honor, we have to say that people, politicians, etal, however much we may like them…are humans capable of remarkably stupid…and potentially illegal acts.

Scooter is not a man worthy of jail time. In this case, the President did the right thing. And it took some tar to do it now.

But, regarding the caning…at least we had honest men on the floor then.
Hope you and your’s are well,

John
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Doing fine. Whenever someone tells me how nasty politics is today i always think of Charles Sumner.
 
Wasn’t he the Govenor who would not commute the “death” sentences given to both a repentant grandmother and retarded man due to his high regard for the legal process and most specifically the opinion of the jury.

So let me get this straight, he wasn’t willing to intervene in a death sentence but has no problem doing it when his own employee gets convicted and sentenced by the same glorious legal system. 😦

Keep up the good moves President Bush, you just managed to tick off every voting interest outside of the conservative party. I wish your party “Good Luck and Sweet Dreams” in there next election cycle. I’ll bet the liberal Democrat running against the conservative Republican will use this act to effectively garner the support of those who fall outside party lines but almost always end up deciding who wins an election and who looses.
 
sirduckjr said:
Wasn’t he the Govenor who would not commute the “death” sentences given to both a repentant grandmother and retarded man due to his high regard for the legal process and most specifically the opinion of the jury.

So let me get this straight, he wasn’t willing to intervene in a death sentence but has no problem doing it when his own employee gets convicted and sentenced by the same glorious legal system. 😦

Keep up the good moves President Bush, you just managed to tick off every voting interest outside of the conservative party. I wish your party “Good Luck and Sweet Dreams” in there next election cycle. I’ll bet the liberal Democrat running against the conservative Republican will use this act to effectively garner the support of those who fall outside party lines but almost always end up deciding who wins an election and who looses.
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President Bush has been much stingier with the pardon (I realize this wasn’t a full pardon) than any other president in our lifetimes. Let’s not assume we know all the facts because we don’t.

And I don’t quite get your logic that this is worse than commuting a murderer’s sentence (and sorry, the fact that it was a woman whose child happened to have a child doesn’t maker her victim any less murdered).
 
sirduckjr said:
Wasn’t he the Govenor who would not commute the “death” sentences given to both a repentant grandmother and retarded man due to his high regard for the legal process and most specifically the opinion of the jury.

So let me get this straight, he wasn’t willing to intervene in a death sentence but has no problem doing it when his own employee gets convicted and sentenced by the same glorious legal system. 😦

Keep up the good moves President Bush, you just managed to tick off every voting interest outside of the conservative party. I wish your party “Good Luck and Sweet Dreams” in there next election cycle. I’ll bet the liberal Democrat running against the conservative Republican will use this act to effectively garner the support of those who fall outside party lines but almost always end up deciding who wins an election and who looses.
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With respect, Sir, I do not think it wise to start hammering on commutations as a factor in the next election for those whose votes count. I don’t think you really want to get into that and have PARDONS by other presidents brought up as a talking point.
 
sirduckjr said:
Wasn’t he the Govenor who would not commute the “death” sentences given to both a repentant grandmother and retarded man due to his high regard for the legal process and most specifically the opinion of the jury.

So let me get this straight, he wasn’t willing to intervene in a death sentence but has no problem doing it when his own employee gets convicted and sentenced by the same glorious legal system. 😦
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The Governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence. the best he can do is delay it 30 days to give the board of clemency more time to look at it or reconsider it.

I am opposed to the death penalty in all cases but the repentant grandmother you are talking about killed two people in their sleep with a pick Axe. Surely you are not suggesting that their is a moral equivalence between lying to a grand jury and brutally murdering two people?

Are you opposed to all Presidential pardons or just the ones President Bush makes.
 
mary_bobo said:
With respect, Sir, I do not think it wise to start hammering on commutations as a factor in the next election for those whose votes count. I don’t think you really want to get into that and have PARDONS by other presidents brought up as a talking point.
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I am sure we both share a love and respect for all of the Church teachings. And one of the most fundamental teachings of our Church is the respect for all life. The President has claimed to have a respect for life and in the areas of embro. stem cells research and partial birth abortion he has clearly demonstrated his commitment.
But as Governor of Texas, more people were put to death under his Administration than any other Governorship in modern history. He defended these killings by saying he was respecting the legal process and the wishes of the jury. Eventhough the President issued a statement in the Libby case that he again respected the jury’s work, he felt the punishment was to severe.
He had the same opportunity in every case as Governor to commute death sentences while keeping the criminal in jail for their natural life. I believe he only did this once.
Why is the President not being consistent? Do you know of any other sentences the Bush Administration felt so compelled to commute? Could the Libby sentence have been the only sentence in the last six years that needed the president’s intervention? Hmmm, looks like the President is either pandering or protecting his own self interest.
I do not equate the death penality to the same level of evil as abortion. However, it is important as Catholics who profess a respect for all human life to be consistent in its application. This consistentcy will help evangelize converts to the wisdom of our Church. 👍
 
sirduckjr said:
But as Governor of Texas, more people were put to death under his Administration than any other Governorship in modern history. He defended these killings by saying he was respecting the legal process and the wishes of the jury. Eventhough the President issued a statement in the Libby case that he again respected the jury’s work, he felt the punishment was to severe.
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Again the Governor of Texas does not have power to commute a death sentence. In addtion the Church for its entire 2,000 years in existence has allowed for Captial punishment. You want to criticicize the President for using his constitutional power to to pardon go ahead-just try and refrain from using bogus arguments.
 
estesbob said:
The Governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence. the best he can do is delay it 30 days to give the board of clemency more time to look at it or reconsider it.

I am opposed to the death penalty in all cases but the repentant grandmother you are talking about killed two people in their sleep with a pick Axe. Surely you are not suggesting that their is a moral equivalence between lying to a grand jury and brutally murdering two people?

Are you opposed to all Presidential pardons or just the ones President Bush makes.
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Looks like I better do some research, but I do believe as Governor, Bush did commute 1 death sentence.

I am not suggesting Mr. Libby should be put to death or spend the rest of his life in jail. What I am suggesting is the president respect our legal process as he has proclaimed he does. Mr. Libby got a fair trial, and is in the process of appeals. I would also say his legal representation would be considered top notch. Many on death row in Texas could only wish for the same calliber of representation.
Futhermore, that repentant grandmother absolutely deserved to spend the rest of her life in jail for the killings. I believe at the heart of our Churches teaching is nullifying the ability of the perpetrator of inflicting further harm in society. Keeping that person in jail for the rest their life will accomplish that.

BTW, what kind of message is the President sending to future administrations when their own officials are not held accountable to the law as you and I would be. Just think about it, how would you like your political opponents not to fear the legal process next time they’re in office.

The President has not pardoned anyone. At least not yet. He may well give a pardon be when Mr. Libby exhausts his appeals.

As to your point about being angered by potential Bush pardons versus previous Clinton pardons. Pointing to others and their poor judgement doesn’t validate ones own poor judgement.
 
sirduckjr said:
Looks like I better do some research, but I do believe as Governor, Bush did commute 1 death sentence.
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I believe you are referring to this:

oranous.com/texas/mcginn/CNNthismorning.html
Furthermore, that repentant grandmother absolutely deserved to spend the rest of her life in jail for the killings. I believe at the heart of our Churches teaching is nullifying the ability of the perpetrator of inflicting further harm in society. Keeping that person in jail for the rest their life will accomplish that.
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I agree in fact I was at Huntsville that night protesting her execution. My beef is using executions during the Bush era in Texas to try and score cheap political points.
BTW, what kind of message is the President sending to future administrations when their own officials are not held accountable to the law as you and I would be. Just think about it, how would you like your political opponents not to fear the legal process next time they’re in office.
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The last 4 administrations have done exactly this.
The President has not pardoned anyone. At least not yet. He may well give a pardon be when Mr. Libby exhausts his appeals
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.

There is no doubt that had the Judge allowed Libby to remain free until his appeals were exhausted(which is normal for a first time offender of a non-violent felony) Bush would have waited to commute is sentence until then.
As to your point about being angered by potential Bush pardons versus previous Clinton pardons. Pointing to others and their poor judgment doesn’t validate ones own poor judgment.
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I am only pointing out that what Bush did is quite common. The only difference being Bush has issued only about 25% the number Clinton did.
 
sirduckjr said:
He had the same opportunity in every case as Governor to commute death sentences while keeping the criminal in jail for their natural life. I believe he only did this once.
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Correction. My mistake, In the state of Texas, the governor in capital cases cannot commute the death sentence to a lesser sentence unless an application has been made by the felon to the Parole Board (of Executioners) If they agree by majority opinion, the power goes to the Governor to grant a lasting repreve. I believe this happened once when he was Governor,
The law is clearly written to avoid political consequences. BTW, the criteria is either innocence or lack of due process. Too bad that isn’t the same criteria the president has in issuing commutations.

This doesnt in anyway lesson the point of the inconsistancy by the President by not respecting the legal process.

To the point, I will complain if a Republican President commutes the sentence of a member of his staff just as I would if a Democratic President where to commute a member of his staff.

Futhermore, this may be a popular move within the Republican Party-Conservative Movement. But it is not with the majority of Americans. When a party puts loyality above integrity, the consequences will be long lasting. Just ask the former President Ford who pardon Nixon.
 
estesbob said:
The last 4 administrations have done exactly this.

.
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Instead of focusing on all the previous administrations, lets focus on the Democrats. What member of the Clinton Administration had his sentence commuted and therefore didn’t have to spend one night in jail or be subject to further investigations where they could not testify under oath?
 
I find it interesting that not one of the Republican Senators who voted to impeach Clinton for perjury and obstruction of justice and pontificated about upholding the rule of law has made any statement regarding Bush’s action regarding Scooter’s perjury and obstruction conviction.

Apparently, it’s now acceptable to perjure and obstruct justice.:rolleyes:
 
estesbob said:
*(“http://i”) agree in fact I was at Huntsville that night protesting her execution. My beef is using executions during the Bush era in Texas to try and score cheap political points.
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I am not trying to score some cheap political point. The President has defended the Texas Death Penalties Laws by saying it is important to consider the will of the people and decisions made by juries in the legal process. All of a sudden, the president doesn’t think it is so important to respect the legal process. This is a philosophical flip flop to accomodate him politically.
 
sirduckjr said:
Instead of focusing on all the previous administrations, lets focus on the Democrats. What member of the Clinton Administration had his sentence commuted and therefore didn’t have to spend one night in jail or be subject to further investigations where they could not testify under oath?
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Henry Cisneros
 
sirduckjr said:
I am not trying to score some cheap political point. The President has defended the Texas Death Penalties Laws by saying it is important to consider the will of the people and decisions made by juries in the legal process. All of a sudden, the president doesn’t think it is so important to respect the legal process. This is a philosophical flip flop to accomodate him politically.
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Sorry but the pardon IS part of the legal process.

** Article II**
Clause 1:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
 
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