But its My Body?

[po18guy]

I am not sure that is fair. I am not pro-abortion, but there are so many complex reasons and issues that CAN be going on; really only God knows the heart of the woman.

Abortion clearly does not come from God, and there is only one other source. A quick read on how the evil one deceives us: courageouspriest.com/tactics-devil?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+courageouspriest%2FqTKF+%28Courageous+Priest%29

 

[crazydaisy1234]

No, but we all seem to be making out the woman to be as evil as satan here, and I don’t that’s fair. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc etc

 

[SamH]

No, but we all seem to be making out the woman to be as evil as satan here, and I don’t that’s fair. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc etc

So you’re good with murder?

 

[crazydaisy1234]

I specifically said I was not pro-abortion.

But if you are happy judging other people, believing they quite flippantly choose to “kill” their babies then good for you. Jesus forgave people who broke commandments, and taught us to forgive, and to love one another.

I think it’s more Christian to show some compassion than to believe you have the right to judge others.

Yes, I would prefer there not to be any abortion, but I am not going to make women feel they are as bad as satan for making incredibly difficult choices sometimes. But you seem to think they make this decision as easily as ordering a coffee.

Lucky for you you’ve never been in such a position.

 

[po18guy]

No, but we all seem to be making out the woman to be as evil as satan here, and I don’t that’s fair. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc etc

Don’t fall for the evil one’s deception as to never judging anyone’s actions. Did your parents judge you when they corrected your behavior? No! They were judging your behavior, as is proper. We must not judge hearts. Actions we have a responsibility to judge. It is the action that is evil, not the person committing that action.

Please do not think that anyone is making anyone out to be as evil as the devil. Not true. However, for evil to occur on earth, we must cooperate with the devil. And, abortion is an intrinsic evil that requires cooperation with the powers of darkness.

Please read this: courageouspriest.com/tactics-devil?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+courageouspriest%2FqTKF+%28Courageous+Priest%29

 

[John_Martin]

…, but I am not going to make women feel they are as bad as satan for making incredibly difficult choices sometimes…

You have fallen for the culture’s persuasion - that it is an extremely difficult choice.
The “choice” they are facing is, “how do I erase the effects of my choice to have sex so that I don’t have to be responsible for that choice? Aha, there is a ‘pro-choice’ abortion clinic; that is the means to the end of not facing the facts of sex or of marriage as a sacrament. And they will tell me it is not a sin.”.

John Martin

 

[vlf7973]

How can I respond, preferably logically, to the very commonly used “But its my Body” from people who support abortions?

Thanks

“It’s my body” is a red herring. Most pro-lifers would agree that you should not put restrictions on what a woman can do with her body, under the assumption that she isn’t hurting herself or anyone else. But abortion obviously kills the child (and often physically or emotionally harms the mother, father, or other relatives as well). Pro-aborts know this and they just don’t care. They know that they cannot justify abortion so they ignore the issue completely… and then they try to pass abortion off as the equivalent of getting a haircut or a piercing and then they make the issue into a “women’s rights” issue and claim that “pro-life is anti-woman” and other such nonsense.

If you are debating with someone who truly is misinformed and deceived by the pro-aborts then you could try to explain that the real issue is that abortion kills the child (who is obviously not part of the woman… basic science and common sense confirm this). Then that person may reconsider… or that person may try using a different argument that does not claim abortion to be solely about the woman’s body.
But if you are debating against a pro-abort who already knows this and still chooses to ignore science and repeat the pro-abortion rhetoric then there’s really nothing you can say that will make any difference. I was in this exact debate the other day and the pro-abort just keeps repeating the rhetoric…

 

[livingwordunity]

How can I respond, preferably logically, to the very commonly used “But its my Body” from people who support abortions?

“It’s my body” is an illogical statement that doesn’t take into account the fact that the baby growing within her has unique DNA and is therefore an individual person living inside of her body. Ask them if they have seen a picture of what a baby looks like in the womb. You can recommend that they do a google search for pictures of babies in the womb. If that doesn’t hit them then seeing a picture of what an abortion looks like will. Ask them if they’ve ever seen a picture of what an abortion looks like. A picture of an abortion can change a heart instantly. It did for me. One other point is that science has recently discovered that a pregnant mother never really gets rid of the baby since the cells of her baby live on in her brain for the rest of her life. Here’s a link to the science of this discovery:

Scientists Discover Children’s Cells Living in Mothers’ Brains

These arguments from science are for people who aren’t Christian or who are Christian in name alone. If the person who said this is a Catholic who just doesn’t know what the Church teaches, refer them to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and to Pope John Paul II’s encyclical called Evangelium Vitae. Other good resources for if the person is a Catholic are Priests for Life and the National Catholic Bioethics Center

 

[Brendan]

I specifically said I was not pro-abortion.

But if you are happy judging other people, believing they quite flippantly choose to “kill” their babies then good for you. Jesus forgave people who broke commandments, and taught us to forgive, and to love one another…

No one is judging a person, but rather judging an ACTION.

Actions are not people, and people are not actions. And action can be judged (in fact, ALL actions SHOULD be judged), while only God can judge a person.

 

[livingwordunity]

You can also recommend that they get and watch this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Edward_H]

Peter Kreeft in the Unaborted Socrates has this argument.

If the baby is part of your body then you have two heads, four hands, twenty toes.

If A is “part of” B, and B is part of C, then logically A is part of C.

If the toes of the baby are part of the baby…and the baby is part of the mother…the baby’s toes/head/eyes are part of the mother.

 

[debbie_h]

Pro-Choice? - Men and women are free to choose, but once chosen there are effects (consequences) that are not about freedom of choice.

If I choose to speed home from work today to save a few minutes (I have that “freedom”, whether lawful or not), I am not free to choose to be free from the accident that will kill me one second before my car is about to crash into the truck.

Men and women exercise their freedom of choice when they choose to engage in sex. That is where choice dwells. That is where the phrase, “But it is my body” is appropriately exclaimed. And because it is my body, I choose to have sex, with all the follow-up implications (pregnancy).

Have we forgotten that pregnancy is the primary purpose of sex, with the emotions and passions and pleasures all being like “side-effects” that assist that purpose? We are “choosing” the means to achieve pregnancy when we engage in sex, whether consciously or passionately. And ending pregnancy in abortion is like saying we are fools who haven’t a clue what reality and truth are about.

Choosing Sex means Choosing to bring a baby to full term and raise a baby to maturity. That is where Choice is not by a fool, but by a Human.

John Martin

Brilliant! My thoughts exactly

 

[crazydaisy1234]

No one is judging a person, but rather judging an ACTION.

Actions are not people, and people are not actions. And action can be judged (in fact, ALL actions SHOULD be judged), while only God can judge a person.

Indeed. This is all I was really trying to say.

 

[CaliLobo]

I specifically said I was not pro-abortion.

But if you are happy judging other people, believing they quite flippantly choose to “kill” their babies then good for you. Jesus forgave people who broke commandments, and taught us to forgive, and to love one another.

I think it’s more Christian to show some compassion than to believe you have the right to judge others.

Yes, I would prefer there not to be any abortion, but I am not going to make women feel they are as bad as satan for making incredibly difficult choices sometimes. But you seem to think they make this decision as easily as ordering a coffee.

Lucky for you you’ve never been in such a position.

Yes I agree. This is why people are leaving the church in droves, because they feel hated and judged for their actions.

I also notice that no one in this thread has cited any Biblical teaching on abortion. Maybe because there is no Bible verse on point? Yeah, God knew us from when we were in the womb, but what does that have to do with abortion?

All of the pro-life Christian rhetoric comes from human rhetoric and tradition, not necessarily the Bible.

In addition, some people here posted that the primary purpose of sex is procreation. Not necessarily. There is a innate biological need for selfish sexual satisfaction.

 

[Edward_H]

Yes I agree. This is why people are leaving the church in droves, because they feel hated and judged for their actions.

I also notice that no one in this thread has cited any Biblical teaching on abortion. Maybe because there is no Bible verse on point? Yeah, God knew us from when we were in the womb, but what does that have to do with abortion?

All of the pro-life Christian rhetoric comes from human rhetoric and tradition, not necessarily the Bible.

In addition, some people here posted that the primary purpose of sex is procreation. Not necessarily. There is a innate biological need for selfish sexual satisfaction.

Nonsense.

Catholicism is not sola scriptura. All the details of how we should live the moral life aren’t spelled out in the Bible. We have the Magesterium to help us sort through matters like abortion, euthanasia, porn, bioethics, etc.

The reason SOME people are leaving the Church has nothing to do with being judged…but more people feeling a conflict between what they want to do and what is true and good., their pride drives them out. No confronting the self. No struggle with pride, vanity, and constant comfort seeking.

 

[SamH]

I specifically said I was not pro-abortion.

But if you are happy judging other people, believing they quite flippantly choose to “kill” their babies then good for you. Jesus forgave people who broke commandments, and taught us to forgive, and to love one another.

I tsounds like you’re part of the “If you don’t like abortion - don’t have one” crowd? How about " If you don’t like robbery - don’t rob people", or “If you don’t like slavery - don’t own one - just don’t judge me for owning mine”.

Do you get the picture?

 

[Edward_H]

Yes I agree. This is why people are leaving the church in droves, because they feel hated and judged for their actions.

I also notice that no one in this thread has cited any Biblical teaching on abortion. Maybe because there is no Bible verse on point? Yeah, God knew us from when we were in the womb, but what does that have to do with abortion?

All of the pro-life Christian rhetoric comes from human rhetoric and tradition, not necessarily the Bible.

In addition, some people here posted that the primary purpose of sex is procreation. Not necessarily. There is a innate biological need for selfish sexual satisfaction.

And this other nonsense…total nonsense…about “a inate biological need” (sic) is laughable.

There is no such need. A need is food, water. If not, then not.

Many people live totally continent life styles and are more joyful and vital than any sexed person.

 

[Allegra]

I would say something like “if it were your body there would be no issue here, it’s the fact you want to remove someone else’s growing, living body from within you”

and kill them by tearing them to pieces.

 

[Deus_tecum]

You may respond with a picture, since they probably do not associate the name “fetus” with anything visual. Once they do, something may change in their thought process.

http://preview.turbosquid.com/Previ...fafc4996-17f9-48db-aa88-27be507c97fdLarge.jpg

http://www.solutionsphc.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/12-week-fetal-fetus-B.jpg

The other day you had a very good and clear picture of a baby in the amniotic sac that really brought home the fact that it is indeed a baby. What happened to that picture?

 

[Trader]

And now for something really different…

Believe it or not, you could quote President Obama, out of context, of course, “You didn’t build that, someone else made it for you.” July 13, 2012.

You did not make your own body. It was a gift from God and your parents, and such a great gift comes with great responsibilities. Just as someone else provided for you when you could not provide for yourself, you also have that responsibility for the person you helped to create. If not, our species would have gone extinct long ago.