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cmom
Guest
How can a priest tell you to practice any form of contraception?
I can understand a docter says it, but not a priest.
I can understand a docter says it, but not a priest.
- Status
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Ham1
Guest
The procedure you underwent was wrong, but it was not a sin. In order for you to have sinned, you would have had to have the knowledge that it was a sin. It seems to me that you persistantly sought the truth about the action and you were mis-informed. In this case, I would say you bear no culpability for any wrongness because you were acting on information that you thought was the truth. You sound like a wonderful person and unfortunately, the priest gave you incorrect information. You have a difficult cross to bear with your condition. God bless you!
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Ham1
Guest
What do you mean? There are several prominent “Catholic” theologians who are priests who teach that such actions are moral. These “proportionalist” theologians maintain that there is no such thing as an intrinsically evil act!
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ekblad7
Guest
It makes me want to cry every time I think about it. I remember vividly sitting across from him and having him tell me to do it. Actually, he thought dh should do it b/c it’s “safer”. I guess if I would have done it then it wouldn’t have officially been a “sin” but would have been heartbreaking for sure. Esp. as I grew in my faith and realized what he was really saying.
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kamz
Guest
I think it’s because I stated that my priest felt I would not be sinning in following my doctors orders.
(Cmon) we did not just do this on a wim, we spoke with more than one doctor and they all told me, if you do have more go somehwere else (could not tell if they were joking or not) it is hard on doctors when a patient puts her life at risk, bleeds on the table and husband goes about crazy, they are after all only human.
I did not say everyone should run out a tie their tubes, but when there is medical reason it sometimes is your only option.
We are very open to adoption down the road and or foster parenting, just because we can’t have any more babies on our own does not close the door on parenthood.
My mother had a hysterectomy at age 33, she had periods that lasted a month long, she never left the house she was in so much pain, she did not have cancer but something was wrong. Also, she had a stroke that she lived through when she had me and that was it for them, that was 30 years ago, her priest said to her, the mothers life comes first in medical situations.
Again, what type of God wants us to die to bring fourth new life?
There is a huge difference in medical nessessity and people who just don’t want more babies or any babies ever so they do something drastic so they can live a selfsih lifestyle and focus on making money etc.
This is not the case with us, my mom or my sister
(Cmon) we did not just do this on a wim, we spoke with more than one doctor and they all told me, if you do have more go somehwere else (could not tell if they were joking or not) it is hard on doctors when a patient puts her life at risk, bleeds on the table and husband goes about crazy, they are after all only human.
I did not say everyone should run out a tie their tubes, but when there is medical reason it sometimes is your only option.
We are very open to adoption down the road and or foster parenting, just because we can’t have any more babies on our own does not close the door on parenthood.
My mother had a hysterectomy at age 33, she had periods that lasted a month long, she never left the house she was in so much pain, she did not have cancer but something was wrong. Also, she had a stroke that she lived through when she had me and that was it for them, that was 30 years ago, her priest said to her, the mothers life comes first in medical situations.
Again, what type of God wants us to die to bring fourth new life?
There is a huge difference in medical nessessity and people who just don’t want more babies or any babies ever so they do something drastic so they can live a selfsih lifestyle and focus on making money etc.
This is not the case with us, my mom or my sister
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_Christopher
Guest
Who is “dh”???
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kamz
Guest
A little off topic but…my mom’s old priest (he is now at another parish) he personally doesn’t know if its wrong to be homosexual, why he even has some homosexual friends and he thinks that it may be true that they were really born this way.
Priests are human too and some will and do voice their own personal opinion, its easy to forget that they are human and that they can and do make mistakes in judgement.
You have to realize I had more than that going against me that my husband is Lutheran and was not willing to listen to reason on this one, he had to watch me lay in a coma state and he was very scared, it changed him, he blamed himself for letting me have the fourth child after we were told that would be very dangerous. What could I do? I love my husband and I respect his opinion. I respect and trust my doctor and I probably put all too much into my priest, I am guilty of believing his word to be gospel.
But he was only doing the best he could do afterall he is human too and he felt really awful for the whole situation.
When I think about it hard I know that this was right for us, I don’t want to leave my children, I love them so much and they need me, 6 months on bed rest is very hard on a family and I had this with all my pregnancies, my older kids had to constantly hear how mom could not attend this or that etc. My daughter who will be 11 does not even want to get married or have children, it comes from watching her mother go through all this, that makes me very sad that she has had to be affected like that, now, I need to work on undoing that in her mind and convince her that just because her mom had a hard time having babies doesn’t mean it won’t be a breeze for her ( I hope So!!!)
Priests are human too and some will and do voice their own personal opinion, its easy to forget that they are human and that they can and do make mistakes in judgement.
You have to realize I had more than that going against me that my husband is Lutheran and was not willing to listen to reason on this one, he had to watch me lay in a coma state and he was very scared, it changed him, he blamed himself for letting me have the fourth child after we were told that would be very dangerous. What could I do? I love my husband and I respect his opinion. I respect and trust my doctor and I probably put all too much into my priest, I am guilty of believing his word to be gospel.
But he was only doing the best he could do afterall he is human too and he felt really awful for the whole situation.
When I think about it hard I know that this was right for us, I don’t want to leave my children, I love them so much and they need me, 6 months on bed rest is very hard on a family and I had this with all my pregnancies, my older kids had to constantly hear how mom could not attend this or that etc. My daughter who will be 11 does not even want to get married or have children, it comes from watching her mother go through all this, that makes me very sad that she has had to be affected like that, now, I need to work on undoing that in her mind and convince her that just because her mom had a hard time having babies doesn’t mean it won’t be a breeze for her ( I hope So!!!)
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ekblad7
Guest
_Christopher_:
dear husband
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rfk
Guest
Well, that isn’t what the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says:
CDF said:
You can go on to read the explanation at: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_31071994_uterine-isolation_en.html
In Janet Smith’s Contraception, Why Not?" talk, she notes that her toughest audience is usually priests. She mentions a study that shows only 35% of priests support the Catholic Church’s teaching on contraception. Given that 90%+ of regular Catholics are opposed, her number sounds believable. Even for those priests who disapprove of conception, I think there are many of them who don’t want to appear confrontational and take the issue head-on. I can’t recall ever hearing about contraception during the homily.
The transcript of her talk is at: omsoul.com/pamview.phtml?idnum=135
I had a priest tell me in confession that contraception was OK. Fortunately, I learned the truth elsewhere.
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cmom
Guest
You are in my prayers dearieWhen I think about it hard I know that this was right for us, I don’t want to leave my children, I love them so much and they need me, 6 months on bed rest is very hard on a family and I had this with all my pregnancies, my older kids had to constantly hear how mom could not attend this or that etc. My daughter who will be 11 does not even want to get married or have children, it comes from watching her mother go through all this, that makes me very sad that she has had to be affected like that, now, I need to work on undoing that in her mind and convince her that just because her mom had a hard time having babies doesn’t mean it won’t be a breeze for her ( I hope So!!!)
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ekblad7
Guest
I just wanted to say that I LOVE Janet Smith!
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Townsend
Guest
If a woman would seriously endanger her health by becoming pregnant, the most prudent and the only licit way to avoid all chance of pregnancy would be to permanently abstain from marital relations. It is the only guaranteed way to avoid pregnancy. Any surgery for the purpose of contraception is illicit, and if you know that beforehand, it is a sin.
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kamz
Guest
So if I choose to not tie my tubes and use no form of birth control but I know that my life is in danger to get pregnant so my husband and I should abstain from any and all relations? Thats interesting, how about the woman who has cervical cancer and for medical reasons must have a hysterectomy? If she doesn’t she will die but if she does she will bear no children? So, it is a sin for her to have a hysterectomy but then the cancer spreads all over and she dies? I did not have my tubes tied because I didn’t want more children, I would have loved more children and with the prospect of adoption or foster parenting that is still an option but what about my four living children? Do they not also deserve me to live? We have a loving, forgiving God, I did not tie my tubes to not have more children so I could have more money or material possessions, I choose to live for my family that I have now, if thats a sin then that is between me and God
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Ham1
Guest
Good post!So if I choose to not tie my tubes and use no form of birth control but I know that my life is in danger to get pregnant so my husband and I should abstain from any and all relations? Thats interesting, how about the woman who has cervical cancer and for medical reasons must have a hysterectomy? If she doesn’t she will die but if she does she will bear no children? So, it is a sin for her to have a hysterectomy but then the cancer spreads all over and she dies? I did not have my tubes tied because I didn’t want more children, I would have loved more children and with the prospect of adoption or foster parenting that is still an option but what about my four living children? Do they not also deserve me to live? We have a loving, forgiving God, I did not tie my tubes to not have more children so I could have more money or material possessions, I choose to live for my family that I have now, if thats a sin then that is between me and God
A hysterectomy is different. In that case the act is removing the cancerous uterus. The bad effect is the resulting infertility. In the case of having one’s tubes tied. The act is itself done in order to sterilize. The sterilization is not an effect of a neutral or good act, it is the act itself.
Despite wonderful and generous intentions, an immoral act can never be made moral, no matter how good the effects may be.
As I have mentioned in a previous post, YOU committed no sin because you were completely misinformed by your priest.
As many couples with similar conditions, you would be called to practice NFP making use of the most conservative rules in order to avoid pregnancy.
God bless you!
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kamz
Guest
thanks Ham1,
my reply was to townsend (spell?)
my reply was to townsend (spell?)
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KellyEr
Guest
I have to disagree with Ham1. If a person knows the teaching of the church in a given matter (which is having an informed conscience) then that person would be sinning to choose to go against the teaching, whether or not his conscience tells him it’s okay or not.
In the case of a woman whose life would be at stake if she were to get pregnant I believe the churches teaching is that they still would not be free to do anything that is unnatural in preventing pregnancy. That in essence means using NFP and trusing in Gods omnipotence or living a celibate life.
I know that sounds harsh, but remember that we are called to take up our cross daily and follow him.
Love in Christ,
KellyEr~
In the case of a woman whose life would be at stake if she were to get pregnant I believe the churches teaching is that they still would not be free to do anything that is unnatural in preventing pregnancy. That in essence means using NFP and trusing in Gods omnipotence or living a celibate life.
I know that sounds harsh, but remember that we are called to take up our cross daily and follow him.
Love in Christ,
KellyEr~
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jess7396
Guest
Thought I would jump in on this (and continue to hijack Ekblad’s thread 
), as I am in a similar situation to Kamz. My life would be in serious danger with another pregnancy as would the life of my child.(I had a uterine rupture) Fortunately for me, the priest I consulted (God love him) knows the official Church teaching on this subject, and told me that a tubal would simply not be allowed.
ITA with Ham1 that since Kamz was misinformed the sin is not hers. For me, if I got my tubes tied tomorrow, it would be a sin, as I know that it is wrong.
Let me say too, that what Kamz and I have been through is soooo very hard, please be gentle with her. I know how it feels to long for more children, and to know that conceiving them ourselves is not safe. (We are considering adoption and foster care). I WANT to carry another child inside of me, I WANT to nurse another baby. I WANT to have sex with my husband whenever, being open to life and have the joy of knowing that our union could result in a beautiful baby. I long for the carefree days again, but this is my cross to bear.
I will say that my mind, logic, feelings, gut disagree with the Church on this subject. It does not seem right that I should risk my life and the life of a child simply to “be” with my husband. It doesn’t seem fair (stomping my foot like a child). HOWEVER- I am not “all-knowing”, I am a humble servant. I don’t have to understand it, agree with it, or like it— I just have to submit to a higher authority. Unless the Pope speaks infallibly tomorrow saying that “medical cases” can use sterilization, I have to follow, it’s part of being a faithful Catholic (and frankly- it is HARD).
God Bless all- and (((HUG))) to Kamz- I am new here and we have butted heads on a few issues, but on this- I feel you.
Patty
), as I am in a similar situation to Kamz. My life would be in serious danger with another pregnancy as would the life of my child.(I had a uterine rupture) Fortunately for me, the priest I consulted (God love him) knows the official Church teaching on this subject, and told me that a tubal would simply not be allowed.ITA with Ham1 that since Kamz was misinformed the sin is not hers. For me, if I got my tubes tied tomorrow, it would be a sin, as I know that it is wrong.
Let me say too, that what Kamz and I have been through is soooo very hard, please be gentle with her. I know how it feels to long for more children, and to know that conceiving them ourselves is not safe. (We are considering adoption and foster care). I WANT to carry another child inside of me, I WANT to nurse another baby. I WANT to have sex with my husband whenever, being open to life and have the joy of knowing that our union could result in a beautiful baby. I long for the carefree days again, but this is my cross to bear.
I will say that my mind, logic, feelings, gut disagree with the Church on this subject. It does not seem right that I should risk my life and the life of a child simply to “be” with my husband. It doesn’t seem fair (stomping my foot like a child). HOWEVER- I am not “all-knowing”, I am a humble servant. I don’t have to understand it, agree with it, or like it— I just have to submit to a higher authority. Unless the Pope speaks infallibly tomorrow saying that “medical cases” can use sterilization, I have to follow, it’s part of being a faithful Catholic (and frankly- it is HARD).
God Bless all- and (((HUG))) to Kamz- I am new here and we have butted heads on a few issues, but on this- I feel you.
Patty
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Ham1
Guest
Kelly,
Just to be clear…the reason I said that it is likely that no sin occurred is because the individual was acting on spiritual guidance from a priest. She asked for clarification on the morality of an act and was given erroneous information. Was the act immoral? Yes. We all agree on that. Was the act a sin? No, I think we can fairly say that given the information this was clearly a case of ignorance without culpability.
Your premise begins “If a person knows about the teaching of the Church in a given matter,…” I think that we can clearly state that, in this case, the person did not know (through no fault of her own) about the teaching of the Church.
Hopes this helps to clarify…
- Status