Buying organic, local, and fair trade etc

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**Ok, just to clarify my thoughts… I only meant the people who were in a position to do so (financially, living arrangements etc).

For example… chocolate…

I have started to buy only fair trade organic chocolate bars when I feel the need. Yes, they are WAY more expensive but I actually feel good paying more when I know it is helping people that otherwise would not have the help.

As chocolate is not a necessity (although I think I could argue that) I think it is only right to buy what is better for humanity f I am going to buy at all. But that also doesn’t mean that I won’t ever eat a “normal” chocolate bar again or start screaming at people who do**

Also, we now try to buy local, naturally grown (may not be organic certified but are naturally fed and raised with no hormone or antibiotic use) meats when possible. Small local farms are really struggling to compete with “big business” and I think we should be supporting family run businesses over massive corporations (in farming at least).

**When we started buying more natural whole foods it was from a health perspective. Then i got introduced to the concept of fair trade…and that got me thinking about our responsibility to be good stewards of our resources and wondered how many other Catholics feel the same? It was something I just never thought of before. I mean, if I wasn’t stealing it, it must be ethical/moral right? lol. Obviously it is much more complicated than that.

But I believe that God is just and He is not going to be angry with Kage_Ar for not stuffing the rules of her housing association and growing an “illegal” garden, lol. He would not want our children to go hungry because organic or fair trade food was too expensive to adequately sustain a family. He would not want us to obsess over every little purchase and turn into neurotic shoppers… but I DO think He would like us to THINK.
**

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I took at look at Peregrinus’s link, and I noted this point on the list:

I’d like to add to that “give money to the SVDP poor boxes in your churches”. If you want to support a local charity, here’s a great one. In our parish (and I assume in all parishes as this is how it is supposed to work), money donated to the poor boxes goes directly to the parish SVDP conference. A bit of it goes to archdiocesan SVDP work, but all of the rest goes directly back to the community to help the poor people who call the parish for assistance. In fact, even on the diocesan/archdiocesan level, greater than 90% of money donated to SVDP goes directly for charitable work (low overhead costs).

For Detroiters, here’s the link for our archdiocesan SVDP: MoreForThePoor.org.

The Diocese of Rockford has mandated that each parish form a SVDP chapter, or get together with another parish to form a SVDP cooperative.

 

[kaws]

For example… chocolate…
I have started to buy only fair trade organic chocolate bars when I feel the need. Yes, they are WAY more expensive but I actually feel good paying more when I know it is helping people that otherwise would not have the help.

As chocolate is not a necessity (although I think I could argue that) I think it is only right to buy what is better for humanity f I am going to buy at all. But that also doesn’t mean that I won’t ever eat a “normal” chocolate bar again or start screaming at people who do

I have bought organic fair trade chocolate before. If I didn’t have a toddler who is addicted to “twakwhat pwease!!!” I would probably exclusively buy organic/fair trade chocolate for myself. At $2-3 for a candy bar I can’t afford that at the rate my son consumes chocolate (that said he could certainly live with less chocolate - though I’m sure there would be much screamimg and tantrums involved at first ). I don’t buy Nestle often if I can help it because of some of the company’s negative foreign practices that I consider to be unscrupulous. I usually buy Hershey’s which may not be any better

Also, we now try to buy local, naturally grown (may not be organic certified but are naturally fed and raised with no hormone or antibiotic use) meats when possible. Small local farms are really struggling to compete with “big business” and I think we should be supporting family run businesses over massive corporations (in farming at least).

Now that we can’t get meat anymore from my dad’s farm I think next summer we will see about getting meat from one of my husband’s friends and his wife (and 9 kids!) who have a small organic farm and sell at our local farmer’s market.

…and that got me thinking about our responsibility to be good stewards of our resources and wondered how many other Catholics feel the same? It was something I just never thought of before. I mean, if I wasn’t stealing it, it must be ethical/moral right? lol. Obviously it is much more complicated than that.

But I believe that God is just and He is not going to be angry with Kage_Ar for not stuffing the rules of her housing association and growing an “illegal” garden, lol. He would not want our children to go hungry because organic or fair trade food was too expensive to adequately sustain a family. He would not want us to obsess over every little purchase and turn into neurotic shoppers… but I DO think He would like us to THINK.

I agree

 

[1ke]

A lot of the public perception of “organic” versus conventional farming/products is marketing and not fact.

Take antibiotics. Organic marketing associations have used that to make people believe if they buy non-organic meat or dairy that they will have antibiotics in it. This is just not true.

Organic farming is also the honor system in this country. The government does not inspect organic farms for violations of practices. Only if a complaint is lodged. Many watchdog groups have “caught” farms that claim to be “organic” using non-organic methods. This is an “organic” farm dairy in Colorado, but it operates like a conventional dairy-- it has over 1,000 cows, doesn’t give them access to pasture, etc. People get caught around here all the time not adhering to organic standards. Nothing is done.

Don’t be fooled by the “organic” label. It is mostly marketing. There are honest farmers and there are good reasons to consider organic vegetables, but if people think they are supporting mom and pop, happy cows running free in the fields, and “sustainable” agriculture by buying organic-- guess what… you’re not. It’s big business.

DH treats his cows better than these “organic” operations. But, we are not organic.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

As Catholics, do you think it is our responsibility to buy food/goods from local producers, stuff that is organically grown, and items obtained through fair trade practices?

No I don’t think it is our responsibility to purchase local vs commercial chain, organic vs inorganic. Some commercial chains actually started out as a local place and had such great business that they grew, so when do we draw the line? It reminds me of something I read the other day. I know a couple that is starting a family and just bought and opened a store from a franchise of an ice cream company. That is their source of income. I read a review of an other local ice cream shop where the person was urging others to not purchase ice cream at the “big chain” place, rather purchas at the other “locally owned” place. It made me kind of mad because I know how this family depends on this franchise they invested in, but people are using the whole “giants vs little people” argument to run business away from it. Also, maybe a person prefers to save money with the larger company (that employs a lot of people) and then use that money they save towards some other good (sustaining a larger family, donating to a deserving charity, etc). About organic food, we are called to be good stewards of our health and land, but the “organic” label does not automatically make everything better than the non- certified “organic” counterpart, plus there are other factors that need to be weighed in. In regards to fair trade, if one has two identical options (quality, price, etc), one is fair trade and the other isn’t, then yes, I think one should purchase the fair trade item. If not, then one has to weigh in several factors (eg how far does one have to travel to get the fair trade item, how much more does it cost, is it what the family needs, what is the quality of the item, etc) and do what one thinks is best for their family, and the common good.
With that said, I personally do prefer to purchase an item from a local if I know they depend on it for their income, and I am able to do it (have time to stop there etc), but I do not think it is a moral obligation.

 

[SeekerJen]

A lot of the public perception of “organic” versus conventional farming/products is marketing and not fact.

Take antibiotics. Organic marketing associations have used that to make people believe if they buy non-organic meat or dairy that they will have antibiotics in it. This is just not true.

Organic farming is also the honor system in this country. The government does not inspect organic farms for violations of practices. Only if a complaint is lodged. Many watchdog groups have “caught” farms that claim to be “organic” using non-organic methods. This is an “organic” farm dairy in Colorado, but it operates like a conventional dairy-- it has over 1,000 cows, doesn’t give them access to pasture, etc. People get caught around here all the time not adhering to organic standards. Nothing is done.

Don’t be fooled by the “organic” label. It is mostly marketing. There are honest farmers and there are good reasons to consider organic vegetables, but if people think they are supporting mom and pop, happy cows running free in the fields, and “sustainable” agriculture by buying organic-- guess what… you’re not. It’s big business.

DH treats his cows better than these “organic” operations. But, we are not organic.

This is a good point, and is why I prefer to buy, say, dairy products from a family-owned dairy in my county. They aren’t certified organic, but they take extremely good care of their cows (good housing and vet care, good feed without the artificial additives, etc.) and produce superior products. If I wasn’t lactose intolerant, I’d probably drink enough of their milk to justify paying for their home delivery service. Their chocolate whole milk is nothing short of a bit of heaven.

 

[kaws]

A lot of the public perception of “organic” versus conventional farming/products is marketing and not fact.

Take antibiotics. Organic marketing associations have used that to make people believe if they buy non-organic meat or dairy that they will have antibiotics in it. This is just not true.

Organic farming is also the honor system in this country. The government does not inspect organic farms for violations of practices. Only if a complaint is lodged. Many watchdog groups have “caught” farms that claim to be “organic” using non-organic methods. This is an “organic” farm dairy in Colorado, but it operates like a conventional dairy-- it has over 1,000 cows, doesn’t give them access to pasture, etc. People get caught around here all the time not adhering to organic standards. Nothing is done.

Don’t be fooled by the “organic” label. It is mostly marketing. There are honest farmers and there are good reasons to consider organic vegetables, but if people think they are supporting mom and pop, happy cows running free in the fields, and “sustainable” agriculture by buying organic-- guess what… you’re not. It’s big business.

DH treats his cows better than these “organic” operations. But, we are not organic.

That’s a good point. I saw a chart a while back (and I don’t have the link at my fingertips at the moment but I can try to track it down) that most of the organic food labels and companies were owned by larger corporations who have many non-organic products (such as tobacco company Phillip Morris - but they also own Kraft and Nabisco KoolAid and other products that I’ll admit I sometimes buy:blush: )

My Dad wasn’t an “organic” farmer either, but I knew how the cattle were treated and processed on our small family farm.

In general I think as stewards of God’s creation, the less potentially carcinogenic chemicals we put into our environment the better. However some products raising organic uses more water or creates more erosion or uses more fuel (with more emissions) to raise. Sometimes it is hard to know what is the right thing to do. .

It may be more morally and environmentally justifiable to buy non-organic produce from a community grower at a local farmers market than buying organic produce shipped from across the country to your local supermarket.

 

[MomaMary8]

A lot of the public perception of “organic” versus conventional farming/products is marketing and not fact.

Take antibiotics. Organic marketing associations have used that to make people believe if they buy non-organic meat or dairy that they will have antibiotics in it. This is just not true.

Organic farming is also the honor system in this country. The government does not inspect organic farms for violations of practices. Only if a complaint is lodged. Many watchdog groups have “caught” farms that claim to be “organic” using non-organic methods. This is an “organic” farm dairy in Colorado, but it operates like a conventional dairy-- it has over 1,000 cows, doesn’t give them access to pasture, etc. People get caught around here all the time not adhering to organic standards. Nothing is done.

Don’t be fooled by the “organic” label. It is mostly marketing. There are honest farmers and there are good reasons to consider organic vegetables, but if people think they are supporting mom and pop, happy cows running free in the fields, and “sustainable” agriculture by buying organic-- guess what… you’re not. It’s big business.

DH treats his cows better than these “organic” operations. But, we are not organic.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

Does the Catholic credit union have online banking? I’d like to switch over but appreciate being able to log in to my bank site and transfer funds into savings, pay bills, etc.

Yep. I pay all but two bills on-line. In fact, it is much faster than BOA. I bank at the Troy branch since it is the closest to me and they also have Saturday hours now. Here is the link: michcathcu.org/

 

[happymommy]

I guess I don’t worry so much about organic as much as I do about pre-processed and over processed foods. I try to buy natural and make more things on my own then the boxed variety. But I do try to buy locally. I understand what is being said about small businesses that grow into larger stores. We have that with our grocery stores. I know the people that own them and I understand that they are still a “small business” even though it has grown. We have a candy shop down town, it’s been there for years. I try to buy my candy, esp. for the holidays there instead of the bags of stuff you can get at the grocery store.
We are able to have a garden and it is huge. My mother and father in-law, my husbands aunt and uncle and his sister too, we all grow things it and then give away what we can’t use. We had a HUGE amount of tomatoes this year. They were everywhere. So we took them to the church and gave some to Father. We took them to the nursing home where my husbands grandmother was and gave them to the nurses. I think they took them to the food pantry as well. We are very lucky, I have enough corn, peppers and zucchini frozen for the winter. Plus we will have enough potatoes as well. Its a real blessing!

 

[kage_ar]

Probably “Property Owners Association”

Yep!

 

[queen_anne78]

I haven’t read through all the responses.

If we could afford to buy local all the time, I would in a heartbeat.

We shopped at the Farmer’s Market this past summer, and I plan to do so even more this coming year.

We get local, fresh, free range eggs from my ASL professor (for $2 a dozen!!!)

Meat is hard. It’s SO expensive…I’m trying to only have meat every once in awhile so that when we DO have it, I can buy the organic/local stuff.

I DO think we should be more conscious. If more people demanded better treatment/no antibiotics/sustainable agriculture/ etc as a STANDARD and not just as special…then the bigger food conglomerates would have to comply.

Mind you I have no thoughts on how to make that happen/widespread effects/yada yada…I’m just a housewife

 

[chewchoo]

When you live where there is no farmer’s market, no Whole Foods, no option but the supermarket - well, you make do with what 'cha got.

Can’t grow my own garden - POA violation.

Perhaps I’m not familiar with the term, but what is that?

Probably “Property Owners Association”

and how is this different from a

Join or start a neighborhood association

which is supposed to be a good thing?

what is the intended benefit of these associations?

 

[1ke]

no antibiotics as a STANDARD

So you propose letting sick animals suffer and die?

When animals get sick, antibiotics do the same for them as they do for us when we get sick.

 

[chewchoo]

So you propose letting sick animals suffer and die?

When animals get sick, antibiotics do the same for them as they do for us when we get sick.

very true
antibiotics good, but hormones, now they are way over done.

 

[Calliso]

I donlt think there are anything wrong with antibiotics. I think the problem comes when an animal is kept in such poor conditions that it has to be kept on many antibiotics just to stay healthy enough to live and keep producing milk or go to the slaughter house or something. But sometimes animals just plain get sick no matter how good the living conditions are and I donlt see anything wrong with giving them antibiotics then. Growth hormones and the like are another story though…imo those are just bad. But not every conventional farm uses them though from what I have read. Most of the smaller ones can;t afford to give hormones.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

and how is this different from a

Join or start a neighborhood association

Probably, in this case, it would be more like a Neighborhood “Rights” Association to battle some POA’s that are ran like communist countries.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I donlt think there are anything wrong with antibiotics. I think the problem comes when an animal is kept in such poor conditions that it has to be kept on many antibiotics just to stay healthy enough to live and keep producing milk or go to the slaughter house or something.

**
You’re right, antibiotics have their place. But, just like in people, they should not be overused. Organic ranchers can use antibiotics for sick animals but then those animals are not to be sold as organic meat (I think until a certain amount of time has passed).**

 

[fbl9]

A lot of the public perception of “organic” versus conventional farming/products is marketing and not fact.

Take antibiotics. Organic marketing associations have used that to make people believe if they buy non-organic meat or dairy that they will have antibiotics in it. This is just not true.

Organic farming is also the honor system in this country. The government does not inspect organic farms for violations of practices. Only if a complaint is lodged. Many watchdog groups have “caught” farms that claim to be “organic” using non-organic methods. This is an “organic” farm dairy in Colorado, but it operates like a conventional dairy-- it has over 1,000 cows, doesn’t give them access to pasture, etc. People get caught around here all the time not adhering to organic standards. Nothing is done.

Don’t be fooled by the “organic” label. It is mostly marketing. There are honest farmers and there are good reasons to consider organic vegetables, but if people think they are supporting mom and pop, happy cows running free in the fields, and “sustainable” agriculture by buying organic-- guess what… you’re not. It’s big business.

DH treats his cows better than these “organic” operations. But, we are not organic.

i think the operation you are refering to was never ceritfied orgainc in the first place…if the operation can not meet the standards then it is not certified no matter how much the operator claims it to be.
if i didn’t know better i would guess you work for mosanto.

 

[SeekerJen]

Yep. I pay all but two bills on-line. In fact, it is much faster than BOA. I bank at the Troy branch since it is the closest to me and they also have Saturday hours now. Here is the link: michcathcu.org/

Thanks.