Byzantine Catholic and sin

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George720 said:
So do Latin Rite Catholics affirm St. Gregory Palamas?
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The same could be said for St Photios. From my Melkite Horologion:

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I know many Latin rite Catholics who would be scandalized by this.

ZP
 
Sounds pretty consistent with our idea of mortal and venial sins.

Kind of like when one poster stated they don’t believe in purgatory and proceeded to describe their beliefs that were almost exactly how the CCC described purgatory.
 
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Pretty much.
Often there are misconceptions about what is meant by terms that one doesn’t ordinarily use.
 
ziapueblo said:
I know many Latin rite Catholics who would be scandalized by this.
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Photius is pretty … controversial. Many people do not realize that what he did, he did only to maintain his Patriarchal position. According to witness of Patriarch Ignatius, Photius repented from that and recanted his errors. Photius was anti-Latin during his life, but probably not towards the end. Yet, if we exclude anti-Latin polemics from Photian theology, he is Greek Father who enriched the Church by his theology. Apparently Photius was historically venerated in Roman Church too…

but his official canonization by Orthodox Church is set in 1847. That would exclude most Eastern Catholic Churches from his veneration by this canonization- nevertheless, tradition of both East and West views him as a Saint. At the same time, canonizations were never believed to be completely infallible (neither ones done by Latin Church or the Pope). Hence one can privately disagree with veneration of Photius, veneration of Palamas, but also all Latin Saints … however no one can deny their theology as it was accepted by the Church (hence, one can be against veneration of Palamas but not against Palamism as theology).

Most people who disagree with canonization of Photius do not do so because of contempt for his theology but because he was staunchly anti-Latin and formented the Schism… and anti-Roman party of his sympathizers actually managed to be in power during Great Schism and onward. He also openly went against Church canons and his treatment of Bulgarian conversion is controversial at best. But as I stated above, he repented from all of this. I am one of people who will not privately venerate Photius, but if I ever attended Byzantine Divine Liturgy on day of his Feast, I would not be scandalized by praying those prayers. Photius died in peace of the Church and if he is in Heaven, all the better- one more Saint to pray for us, one more Saint who glorified God and one more Human who attained true purpose of life.
 
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I couldn’t agree more. Even though I am an Orthodox Christian, Photius is one saint, along with Mark of Ephesus and Gregory Palamas that I get an uneasy feeling about asking their intercessions, simply because their actions did not foster reunion between East and West but rather further caused Schism and they are frequently enlisted by the hyperdox as ammunition against the Western Church.
 
I understand that and my feelings are somewhat similar, but hate Photius gets seems to be about things before his repentance. He did repent from his actions in the end, which is a good thing. If nothing else, he is a good role model for that. He also kinda saved Pope from getting executed by Emperor, so he wasn’t really always at odds with Latin Church. After all, he was venerated by Roman Church too and he did die in peace with Church.

Mark of Ephesus, on the other hand, was surely a man of virtuous life. He came to Council of Florence to help foster unity with Latins and was very anxious to do so- ironically, other Greek Prelates, who in the end signed the Union, were scandalized by how well Russian Prelate was treating Latins and how friendly they were together- they literally viewed it as scandalous to converse with heretics like that. Mark of Ephesus did not. He actually conversed with Latins a lot and won Purgatorial Fire debate (which is why Latin Church now holds Mark’s view as doctrinal, ironically ). Then Emperor decided Mark is dangerous to unity and silenced him. Mark of Ephesus was obedient to Emperor in this regard, but not in regard to signing Union. If maybe Mark was either obedient in both things or if Mark was not obedient in either one, Latins and Greeks could have worked out their differences. Pope even said “we have accomplished nothing” when he saw Mark leave without signing the Union.
 
There are many, but I would say Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics agree on St Basil the Great, St Gregory the Theologian and St John Chrysostom.

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I would also add St Maximus the Confessor to the list.

We Orthodox would also say (to a lesser degree, Byzantine Catholics) Sts Photios the Great, Mark of Ephesus and Gregory Palamas.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
There are many, but I would say Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics agree on St Basil the Great, St Gregory the Theologian and St John Chrysostom.

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I would also add St Maximus the Confessor to the list.

We Orthodox would also say (to a lesser degree, Byzantine Catholics) Sts Photios the Great, Mark of Ephesus and Gregory Palamas.

ZP
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I would add St. Athanasius.
 
Usurping the rightful Patriarch (St. Ignatius) doesn’t seem right though…
 
Margaret_Ann said:
Usurping the rightful Patriarch (St. Ignatius) doesn’t seem right though…
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Of course, but as I said, he repented from that. Photius was removed from Patriarchate he usurped and Ignatius became Patriarch again. They reconciled before Patriarch Ignatius died and he actually wanted Photius to succeed him.

Actually, it wasn’t really Photius who deposed Ignatius though. Ignatius decided to deny Eucharist to noble who was openly sinful, and noble complained to Emperor. Emperor deposed Ignatius and appointed Photius. What Photius did wrong however, was that he ignored Rome’s call to make situation right and started all-out theological war in Latins, and when he was told that Bulgaria, converted by Latin missionaries and hence by canons of the Church subject to Papacy, wanted to become Christian (and by default Latin), he used Imperial Military to occupy country and force Bulgaria to be Greek, not Latin (because he viewed Latin Kingdom near Byzantium as threat to his authority as Patriarch). Photius was also uncanonically made Patriarch, as he was layman before election and skipped time necessary to serve as Priest before becoming Patriarch (also, he was ordained to Deacon, Priest and Bishop way too fast- something Greek canons actually forbid at the time… there was supposed to be a time between each ordination).

Also, is Patriarch Ignatius considered Saint? If so, I didn’t know… but it makes perfect sense.
 
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IIRC, Ignatius is a Saint (I think he might be on my Byzantine Seminary Press wall calendar).
 
The Syriac churches have:

St. Ephrem the Syrian
St. Isaac of Nineveh
St. Jacob of Serug
St. John of Apamea (John the Solitary)
Aphrahat
Pseudo-Dyonesius

I’m sure there are others, but those are the ones that come to mind.

I’d say Ephrem and Jacob are the most influential. In fact, there are prayers from St. Ephrem in every single liturgical function in the Maronite Church.
 
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