Byzantine Catholic Church

[Vico]

Thanks Vivo.

Are both liturgies of St John and St Basil currently in use in Byzantine/Ruthenian parishes?

If so, do they each have a “following” as do the Roman EF and OF?

Are the revisions between the 1995 Book of Byzantine Prayer and the current 2006 Faithful’s Book for the Divine Liturgy such that the earlier text is now considered obsolete?

Best regards.

Maggie

Maggie, all three liturgies are currently used at particular times. Generally the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is used, as such there are no followings.

During the Great Fast (Lent), the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is celebrated on Sunday and the Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts during the week (usually Wednesday and Friday, but also Clean Monday, and Holy Monday and Holy Tuesday). Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday are celebrated with the Divine Liturgy of Saint Basil. Holy Friday has Royal hours (morning), and Orthros (evening). The Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is also celebrated on the vigil of Nativity and vigil of Theophany, and on the Feast of St. Basil (Jan 1).

(At one time the Divine Liturgy of Saint James was celebrated once a year.)

Yes, the older translation is obsolete, the Divine Liturgy revised 2006 and 2010 versions are to be used exclusively in the Byzantine Church USA.

 

[5Loaves]

Maggie-
You can also learn more about the commonly celebrated forms of the Divine Liturgy here and here.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes, the older translation is obsolete, the Divine Liturgy revised 2006 and 2010 versions are to be used exclusively in the Byzantine Church USA.

Is this for the Ruthenians only or for all Byzantine Catholics?

 

[Aramis]

Is this for the Ruthenians only or for all Byzantine Catholics?

It’s the Ruthenian-specific version. While you’d be able to follow along in it at a different Byzantine Rite Church’s liturgy, the wordings wouldn’t be exact, and the music would definitely be off.

Each Church Sui Iuris has its own liturgy books and own translations.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It’s the Ruthenian-specific version. While you’d be able to follow along in it at a different Byzantine Rite Church’s liturgy, the wordings wouldn’t be exact, and the music would definitely be off.

Each Church Sui Iuris has its own liturgy books and own translations.

Who approves translations?

 

[ciero]

It’s the Ruthenian-specific version. While you’d be able to follow along in it at a different Byzantine Rite Church’s liturgy, the wordings wouldn’t be exact, and the music would definitely be off.

Each Church Sui Iuris has its own liturgy books and own translations.

Dont think so!! Try taking this book along to a Ukranian Byzantine Church or to a Melkite Byzantine Church or to a Romanian Byzantine Church or to a Russian Byzantine Church and you would be LOST. So much has been removed by the Ruthenians and so many of the priests private prayers now said aloud it would be very confusing to follow.
Once again I will say that people insisting on following along in a book during the Divine Liturgy is contrary to the spirit of the Liturgy.
If one insists on having a book top follow along with or better yet to read and become familiar with the Divine Liturgy (at home ) I would recommend a full translation of the liturgy and not a dumbed down version as the one recommended above.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Speaking of getting lost, I noticed a lot of things in our book which are parts of the priest are skipped. Are they really skipped or do the priest pray them in private? Or is in that some parts are really optional? The priest also skips the Institution narrative and proceeds to “Take, eat…”.

 

[Vico]

Who approves translations?

CCEO Canon 657

1. The approval of liturgical texts, after prior review of the Apostolic See, is reserved in patriarchal Churches to the patriarch with the consent of the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church, in metropolitan Churches sui iuris to the metropolitan with the consent of the council of hierarchs; in other Churches this right rests exclusively with the Apostolic See, and, within the limits set by it, to bishops and to their legitimately constituted assemblies.
2. The same authorities are also competent to approve the translations of these books meant for liturgical use, after sending a report to the Apostolic See in the case of patriarchal Churches and metropolitan Churches sui iuris.
3. To republish liturgical books or their translations intended even in part for liturgical use, it is required and suffices to establish their correspondence with the approved edition by an attestation of the hierarch referred to in can. 662, 1.
4. In making changes in liturgical texts, attention is to be paid to can. 40, 1.

intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PI9.HTM

 

[magdalina]

Dont think so!! Try taking this book along to a Ukranian Byzantine Church or to a Melkite Byzantine Church or to a Romanian Byzantine Church or to a Russian Byzantine Church and you would be LOST. So much has been removed by the Ruthenians and so many of the priests private prayers now said aloud it would be very confusing to follow.
Once again I will say that people insisting on following along in a book during the Divine Liturgy is contrary to the spirit of the Liturgy.
If one insists on having a book top follow along with or better yet to read and become familiar with the Divine Liturgy (at home ) I would recommend a full translation of the liturgy and not a dumbed down version as the one recommended above.

OK. What’s it called? Where can it be obtained in book form?

I’m new to all this. Please help get me up to speed here. What would motivate someone to dumb down an Eastern liturgy? It’s not being demanded by the local Roman bishop, is it?

In an earlier post, I described something like a missal. In the TLM missals are often used during mass. There are pew books for that. What I’m after is a single volume with a bit more depth, texts of the various liturgies, cycle of the liturgical year, feasts, the history and significance of the rubrics, etc. And private prayers.

To get started, I ordered the* Byzantine Prayer Book* by Archbishop Joseph Raya and Msgr John Opalenick.

 

[ConstantineTG]

OK. What’s it called? Where can it be obtained in book form?

The title will always have “Divine Liturgy” or simply just “Divine Liturgy”. In the parish I attend, there’s 4 books at the pews, each one a Divine Liturgy book (okay, 3, the 4th one is Ukrainian and isn’t worth much for someone like myself who attends the English DL and doesn’t know a word in Ukrainian).

I’m new to all this. Please help get me up to speed here. What would motivate someone to dumb down an Eastern liturgy? It’s not being demanded by the local Roman bishop, is it?

As per Vico’s response, the Eastern Liturgies are regulated by the Patriarchs or Synods of each sui juris Church. Many have recently updated their Liturgies. Liturgies change all the time. Even the TLM has some changes from Trent until 1962. It wasn’t the same exact Mass all the time, as some would claim.

In an earlier post, I described something like a missal. In the TLM missals are often used during mass. There are pew books for that. What I’m after is a single volume with a bit more depth, texts of the various liturgies, cycle of the liturgical year, feasts, the history and significance of the rubrics, etc. And private prayers.

To get started, I ordered the* Byzantine Prayer Book* by Archbishop Joseph Raya and Msgr John Opalenick.

Again this will depend on the parish. The specific use may be mandated by the Bishop of the Eparcy or Metropolitan or even the Patriarch/Synod throughout the Church. Have you checked the parish website for information?

 

[5Loaves]

OK. What’s it called? Where can it be obtained in book form?

To get started, I ordered the* Byzantine Prayer Book* by Archbishop Joseph Raya and Msgr John Opalenick.

I just noticed you’re in San Diego. Was it Holy Angels you went to? Two wonderful couples from their parish were with us for Pentecost. Don’t they have a bookstore? They’re a large parish I’d expect them to have one. There are many good EC/Orthodox prayer books which include the DL and prayers. I’d ask the clergy or the faithful at the parish for help locating what you want if you want something to match the translation they are using there.

Archbishop Joseph Raya is a wonderful writer.

 

[Vico]

magdalina, you can read a comparison of the versions of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom here:

patronagechurch.com/Liturgy_Study/study_the_chrysostom_divine_liturgy.htm

Rome produced a few recensions of it upon request of the various Eastern catholic bishops. The Ruthenian recension has the Latinizations removed and reverts to the time of Metropolitan Isidore (1438 A.D.), also removing the changes of the synod of Zamosc (1720 A.D.).

The current 2006 version promulgated in 2007 is an incomplete recension.

People’s Book and Cantor’s: patronagechurch.com/Liturgicon_2006/2007%20Liturgy%20-%20Music.htm

 

[ciero]

OK. What’s it called? Where can it be obtained in book form?

I’m new to all this. Please help get me up to speed here. What would motivate someone to dumb down an Eastern liturgy? It’s not being demanded by the local Roman bishop, is it?

In an earlier post, I described something like a missal. In the TLM missals are often used during mass. There are pew books for that. What I’m after is a single volume with a bit more depth, texts of the various liturgies, cycle of the liturgical year, feasts, the history and significance of the rubrics, etc. And private prayers.

To get started, I ordered the* Byzantine Prayer Book* by Archbishop Joseph Raya and Msgr John Opalenick.

Byzantine Daily Worship would be a good start as far as a Liturgy book goes…its been years since I used it, but from what I can remember it has the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom in full as well as the Liturgy of St Basil.

As far as why the Ruthenian church has chosen to dumb down its liturgy is beyond me. The model they have used is the Novos Ordo Mass of the Latin church…shorten things up…dont want folks in church to long…reduce the deacons and peoples parts (LITANYS) and have the priests private parts prayed aloud. As well as inclusive language and horizontal language vs vertical language.
There is a whole forum dedicated to the discussion of this Liturgy over at byzcath.org

 

[JW55]

Overall, it will be different, but not too different. However, the list of things that are notably different…

1. No kneeling. (If people are, they’re doing it wrong.)
2. No holy water. We only have holy water out for baptisms.
3. More incense.
4. standing: lots of it. wear sensible shoes. If you don’t you will regret it.
5. no lip treatements (lipstick, chapstick, etc)… we kiss icons and the chalice, and in more traditional parishes also the priest’s hand. Often.
6. Communion will be by spoon. To receive, get in line, reverence the icon on the tetrapod with a kiss, then cross your arms into an “x” across your chest. At your turn, say your name, step really close, tilt your head back, open wide like a baby bird, and say nothing. It will be a large chunk of the body in the blood, dropped into your mouth. Do not close your mouth on the spoon. If there are no servers, bring the red cloth up to your chin as you say your name, if there are, they will usually do that for you. It’s common to kiss the chalice immediately after reception.
7. Leavened bread is used for the consecration. This is licit and valid for the Eastern Churches. Don’t panic.
8. wear layers; the temperature rises from all the singing in many parishes.
9. it is likely to be in the vernacular in whole or part. But it might very well also be entirely in the ethnic language of the parish.
10. there is normally only one prayer spoken; the rest are usually sung. (If it’s all spoken, you’re probably in a latinized Ukrainian parish.)
11. Veiling/hats: mantillas are rare, hats and scarves common, chapel veils less so, and no issue made of it in most parishes.
12. you will see children being communed… even babes in arms. Don’t be suprised if asked whether your child is to be communed.
13. books: you may see several different kinds. As the cantors which one to follow along in.
14. Early Arrival: If liturgy starts at 10, expect a service to be in progress from 9:30, or maybe even 9:15. to 9:50… just go in, reverence the icons, and take a place. You are not late for liturgy, just for either matins or 3rd hour.
15. Expect to be realized as being a visitor immediately. Many parishes are small enough that everyone at least recognizes everyone else, even if names are not known.
16. you probably won’t see the alter nor tabernacle at all until the liturgy begins. They’re behind the wall of icons with the 3 doorways. Don’t go in, unless the priest invites you in for confession
17. Confession: if you need to go to confession, it’s usually in front of the Icon of Christ. If you see a priest with black robe and stole, and a parishioner with him, head under the stole, stay back. That’s a confession in process.
18. What looks like a second communion isn’t. it is common that the bread from which communion was cut is itself shared, either immediately after communion (as in, as you return to your seat) to help insure that Our Lord is consumed, or at the end of Liturgy. All baptized christians, and also often catechumens, are welcomed to receive this blessed bread. You approach the server holding it, take one, and then toss some change in the next server’s basket.
19. Annointing with Oil. Happens many times a year…
20. Comings and goings… Don’t walk in front of a procession… If you need to exit, or come in, look for a procession. If none, come on in. Even if a service is ongoing.
21. sign of the cross: reversed direction from the Latins… don’t worry, no one expects the visiting latin to make the sign of the cross byzantine style.
22. Deacons are addressed as Father or Father Deacon.
    Priests as Father or Reverend Father.
    Bishops as Master, Father Bishop, or (if they insist) Father.
    Their first names are used, not their last.
    So, just because you’re talking to “Father Ken” doesn’t mean he’s a priest.

23)“Let us complete our morning prayer to the Lord” is not yet close to the end. There’s another 10-20 minutes. It’s not over til the doors are closed.

Wow Aramis!

Solid info, as always. I think in my few visits to an EC or Orthodox church, it has always been the little things that people do (that are never covered before attending, and most members take for granted) that leave me feeling a little uncomfortable and lost. This is a great job of covering some of those points. It would be helpful if all EC and Orthodox churches had a little brochure at the back of church that helped direct visitors. I know some churches do, but some that do not. I always feel better with a road map.

 

[Hesychios]

…

1. No holy water. We only have holy water out for baptisms.
   …

Orthodox will usually drink it , at least the Russians and Belorussians will.

I think 5loaves (who generally worships in the Nikonian/Russian tradition, rather than the Ruthenian), will have some experience with that.

 

[sanjay1234]

Anywhere you go GOD is everywhere…Am I wrong?

vaastunaresh.com

Hello Eastern Catholics,

I am a Roman Catholic who will be attending a Byzantine Catholic Church this weekend. I usually attend a Traditional Latin Mass but I wanted to experience an Eastern Liturgy. I’mg oing into this blindly not knowing to expect. Are there huge differences? Anything I should know? Thanks

 

[5Loaves]

Michael -

Orthodox will usually drink it , at least the Russians and Belorussians will.

I think 5loaves (who generally worships in the Nikonian/Russian tradition, rather than the Ruthenian), will have some experience with that.

As I can recall the only time, apart from baptisms, we have Holy Water in my Russian Byzantine Catholic parish, and in the OCA parish I also go to at times, is Theophany. The OCA parish is able to go to a near by creek for blessing the water. In my parish we have a large container of water which Father plunges his hand and cross into multiple times during the blessing. Then in both parishes we fill jars, or whatever container you’ve brought with the blessed water and use it throughout the year-- add to food, add to drink, sprinkle, add to egg dye for Pascha eggs… It 's not present in the temple during the rest of the year. I haven’t seen holy water present normally in in either the OCA or ROCOR cathedrals here SF.

Of course water is used in blessings during the various feasts such as Exaltation of the Precious and Life Giving Cross, copious amounts of water are poured over the cross as the priest repeatedly raises and lowers it, the Feast of the Dormition when we bring flowers to be blest, and the Feast of the Transfiguration of Christ God, grapes and other fruit is brought to be blessed.

 

[Aramis]

Orthodox will usually drink it , at least the Russians and Belorussians will.

I think 5loaves (who generally worships in the Nikonian/Russian tradition, rather than the Ruthenian), will have some experience with that.

We drink the theophany water, but not the baptismal water post-child.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We drink the theophany water, but not the baptismal water post-child.

hahahahahahah!

 

[Hesychios]

Michael -

As I can recall the only time, apart from baptisms, we have Holy Water in my Russian Byzantine Catholic parish, and in the OCA parish I also go to at times, is Theophany. The OCA parish is able to go to a near by creek for blessing the water. In my parish we have a large container of water which Father plunges his hand and cross into multiple times during the blessing. Then in both parishes we fill jars, or whatever container you’ve brought with the blessed water and use it throughout the year-- add to food, add to drink, sprinkle, add to egg dye for Pascha eggs… It 's not present in the temple during the rest of the year. I haven’t seen holy water present normally in in either the OCA or ROCOR cathedrals here SF.

Of course water is used in blessings during the various feasts such as Exaltation of the Precious and Life Giving Cross, copious amounts of water are poured over the cross as the priest repeatedly raises and lowers it, the Feast of the Dormition when we bring flowers to be blest, and the Feast of the Transfiguration of Christ God, grapes and other fruit is brought to be blessed.

That’s interesting.

In the old Belarussian Catholic parish-mission in Chicago I recall there was always Holy water to drink, they used the Nikonian rite too. Then I became a member of the Ruthenians and no longer that case at all. But in the Chicago cathedral of Holy Trinity (OCA) of which I am now a member we always have holy water to drink, and as far as I know when the Theophany water runs out the Dean blesses more. We always have some and people help themselves to a cupful during liturgy.

Now I can’t say that I remember this to be true in the suburban parishes, all of the ones

I am familiar with were founded as Ruthenian parishes, with the exception of St Lukes (which although OCA was founded by Greeks).

I suppose I might as well do a tour …