Byzantine Liturgy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Elvis_George
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Elvis_George

Guest
Shlama!
So I am a Syro Malabar Catholic who has been and familiar with the East Syriac, West Syriac, and Latin Liturgies. A few days ago I was watching a Byzantine Liturgy:


I couldn’t really finish it, I stopped at the time when the Metropolitan was facing the people with the Divine Mysteries. Now, can someone give an intro to the Byzantine Liturgy? I was extremely confused. I kept on hearing the people chant “Lord have Mercy.” Why is that so? (and the only reason why I watched a OCA liturgy was because it was the only liturgy where I could be guaranteed it would be said in 100% English 🙂)
 
“Lord have mercy” is the response to most of the petitions in the various litanies.
 
Elvis_George said:
(and the only reason why I watched a OCA liturgy was because it was the only liturgy where I could be guaranteed it would be said in 100% English 🙂)
Click to expand...
Anything from the Pittsburgh Metropolia (nee Ruthenian) will be English, although the single Italo-greek parish in it uses Kyrie Eleison instead.

And, as @ReaderT notes, what else would we say?
 
Nice one! In the West Syriac rite kyrie Eleison is used (although only in the dypitchs.) In the East Syriac rite, the term is almost never use, although the closest thing we have relating towards it “Lord forgive the sins and offenses of your servants.” We also don’t sing the hymn Kyrie Eleison nor do we have any litanies, besides the Karozuzas which are more of intseccory prayers/dypitchs then litanies.
 
Go to Annunciation Byzantine Catholic Parish on Face Book, Fr. Thomas Loya has a series of short videos explaining the Byzantine liturgy.
 
Elvis_George said:
Nice one! In the West Syriac rite kyrie Eleison is used (although only in the dypitchs.) In the East Syriac rite, the term is almost never use, although the closest thing we have relating towards it “Lord forgive the sins and offenses of your servants.” We also don’t sing the hymn Kyrie Eleison nor do we have any litanies, besides the Karozuzas which are more of intseccory prayers/dypitchs then litanies.
Click to expand...
for the Syro-Malabar Church- is that church only based in India? is it a purely Indian church?
 
There are 2 Indian Eastern Catholic Churches in India (The Syro Malabar church using the East Syriac Rite and the Syro Malankara church using the West Syriac rite) both are located in Kerala…Kerala is located in southwestern and is a hub of Syriac Christianity
 
isn’t the East Syriac Rite employed in Chaldean Catholic Church as well? So are they both connected?
 
there are also 2 oriental orthodox church, Jacobite Syrian (under the Patriarch of Antioch) and the Malankara Orthodox (independet.) Both fight ALOT tho
 
we were under the Chaldean Catholic church for 50 years until the synod of Diamper which put us under the latin church…then we revolted, but most rejoined the catholic church, only to be decieved and to be put under the latins again while the others became syriac orthodox and eventually used the west syriac rite…the syro malankara church was a group of people from this section of people who rejoined the catholic church in 1930
 
so pretty much the Syro-Malabar Church is an Indian Chaldean Church.
 
Not really we do have differences in liturgy (in the past and now) but you can say that
 
how different is it from the Church of the East liturgy? is the Syro-Malabar liturgy like an Indian version of the Liturgy of Addai and Mari?
 
Traditionally, our bread was made of coconut flour while their’s was made from legit flour. Our confessions were generally public/or private while their confessions were orginally always public. Our confessions also used to have inscence and stuff. Also, blessings water, for example, was different. They would have a priest bless it were traditionally we would throw soil from St Thomas’s tomb to bless stuff. Syriac spoken by the chaldeans are us are different, and still are. All of these are back in the day examples. Today, the Chaldean Catholic church and the Syro Malabar church both use unleavend bread and almost the same pattern of confession as the latins (The last you did confession, and act of contrition are usually omitted in the Syro Malabar Church.) However, we both have different vestements (we tend to have fancier ones and they tend to have more simpler ones.
 
Plus they celebrate the Qurbana ad populum, we split it into half ad orientam and half ad populum…Before the portuguese we had different heirarchal bodies too…They were under the bishops, who were under the leaders of the ecclestial provinces, then the Patriarch. We weren’t really a diocese, more of a province, headed by the Metropolitan and Gate of India. We had a quasi-patriarchal status (which we lost during the synod of diamper and still we havent been able to get the status back.) The Metropolitan had helpers. They were of always Persian orgin and dealed with our spiritual affairs. Then there were assistant metropolitans who helped out and did missionary work. Then there is the Archdeacon, who dealt with temporal affairs…
that however changed…When the church of the East split into 2 (catholic and independet) both factions sent a metropolitan. The catholic one Mar Joseph Sulaqa was deported and his tomb is not known 😦 The Independent faction sent Mar Abraham. He was deported, but he joined the Catholic faction, appealed to Rome, and was consecrated by the Patriarch of Venice. He built an actual cathedral and formed the archdiocese of Angamaly. Before he died, he wanted to unite the position of Archdeacon and Metropolitan and tried to consecrate Archdeacon George of the Cross as Metropolitan. He died before and the Archbishop of Goa refused to give him his final rites. Later, after the synod of diamper occurred. Archdeacon Thomas got consecrated invalidly through 12 priests and splits from the Catholic Church. The Carmelites, in an effort to bring us back to Catholicism, made his cousin the new Metropolitan of India. He was the first “Indian” Metropolitan of India. He was able to win 84 churches while the Mar Thoma I could only get 32. Some churches were shared. Then a syriac orthodox bishop receonsecrated Mar Thoma I and the position of the Archdeacon became of the Malankara Metropolitan and was the main leader of the Syriac Orthodox Nasranis while the Europeans tricked the Catholic Nasranis and put them under the See of Verapoly. The next true Metropolitan of India is Mar Antony Padiyara, which was 200 years later. (Indian bishops had come to be 50 years earlier, but they were still under the Latins)
 
Last edited:
Question on Byzantine liturgy -

I know there’s some 14 EC churches that are of the Byzantine liturgy. What’s the best Byzantine Catholic church to attend that’s based in the US? (I’m in the US). I mean the ones that are more English friendly. Would it be the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church (also known as the Byzantine Catholic Church)? I see that the Ruthenian Church is based in Pittsburgh, PA.
 
attend a Ruthenian Catholic liturgy cuz it usually always 100% english…the others, it rlly depends. I know the UGCC sometimes do have english liturgies and that Melkite liturgies are usually in arabic (based on what ive seen in youtube)
 
If it’s all English you’re looking for, the Ruthenian Church is probably your safest choice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top