CAF Bible Study - The Gospel of John

[Church_Militant]

22: After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.
23: John also was baptizing at Ae’non near Salim, because there was much water there; and people came and were baptized.
24: For John had not yet been put in prison.
25: Now a discussion arose between John’s disciples and a Jew over purifying.
26: And they came to John, and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you bore witness, here he is, baptizing, and all are going to him.”
27: John answered, “No one can receive anything except what is given him from heaven.
28: You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.
29: He who has the bride is the bridegroom; the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice; therefore this joy of mine is now full.
30: He must increase, but I must decrease.”
31: He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth belongs to the earth, and of the earth he speaks; he who comes from heaven is above all.
32: He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony;
33: he who receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
34: For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for it is not by measure that he gives the Spirit;
35: the Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand.
36: He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

 

[Church_Militant]

22: After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.
23: John also was baptizing at Ae’non near Salim, because there was much water there; and people came and were baptized.

Look here at verse 22.

Jesus baptized?

If it wasn’t necessary for salvation why did Our Lord do it?

It sure seems to be a bigger deal than some folks make of it.

 

[katy]

I didn’t realize Jesus baptized either, altho I must have heard this from time to time. It just did not register. I wonder if this was like John’s baptism, or if it was the same as we have now even tho Jesus had not died and risen yet.

 

[Efrain]

3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

3:16: For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Also some will use this verse to say that belief in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. Maybe its just me but I don’t see the guarantee that all will or shall.

 

[lak611]

Also some will use this verse to say that belief in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. Maybe its just me but I don’t see the guarantee that all will or shall.

Salvation is a life-long process. Belief in Jesus is just the first step. We need to continue walking all the way. We need the Grace of God through the Sacraments to get us there.

 

[NotWorthy]

Look here at verse 22.

Jesus baptized?

If it wasn’t necessary for salvation why did Our Lord do it?

It sure seems to be a bigger deal than some folks make of it.

Um, I don’t think Jesus was baptizing. He was there with the Apostles who did the baptizing. In chapter 4,

Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, just his disciples), 2

 

[NotWorthy]

I think if John 3:16 is one of the most used phrases in the Bible, then John 3:36 is the most overlooked.

36: He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.Obedience is important, my people!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

Um, I don’t think Jesus was baptizing. He was there with the Apostles who did the baptizing. In chapter 4,

Ah… I had forgotten that. Oh well…I’m glad you caught that before I make a bigger dork outta myself.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Ah… I had forgotten that. Oh well…I’m glad you caught that before I make a bigger dork outta myself.

Hi. Can you explain to me how the verse implies that Jesus wasn’t baptizing? I read in a Baptist book that Baptism isn’t necessary for salvation because if it had been, Jesus would have baptized, but He didn’t. But if John 3:22 implies that He did, then that argument is gone.

D-R:

After these things Jesus and his disciples came into the land of Judea: and there he abode with them, and baptized.

NAB:

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing.

RSV:

After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.

NIV:

After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.

NASB:

fter these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing.

KJV:

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

The Message:

After this conversation, Jesus went on with his disciples into the Judean countryside and relaxed with them there. He was also baptizing.

All of these versions say that Jesus was staying with them ** and** baptizing.

But, as NotWorthy quoted, just a few verses later in John 4:2, the evangelist writes that Jesus was NOT baptizing! The phrasing of John 4:1-2 is interesting:

RSV:

Now when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that** Jesus was making and baptizing ** more disciples than John
2: (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),

Who was making and baptizing more? Jesus. But Jesus wasn’t actually baptizing. That is, at least, performing the physical act. But yet, was it not still Jesus who baptized? Do not the ministers of the Sacraments act only as an agent to Christ who is doing the real work? So yes, it seems that Jesus was baptizing, but let the apostles get wet. He was baptizing just as He baptizes today…

Did I answer my own question?

 

[katy]

I think perhaps you did. Jesus is Lord of the sacraments, after all.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’m not certain if it was a Sacramental Baptism, yet. As a matter of fact, it doesn’t seem at all like it would be.

For a Baptism to be successful, you have to have form and water, but you then receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus explicitly tells us that the Holy Spirit can not come until Jesus leaves. (I believe it’s in John 15-16 several times).

Hence, I believe Jesus would NOT be baptizing yet in order to prevent any confusion among the baptized.

“Wait, you mean being baptized BY JESUS is not as great as being baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS”?!?!?

“Well, yeah.”

 

[ABostonCatholic]

I’m not certain if it was a Sacramental Baptism, yet. As a matter of fact, it doesn’t seem at all like it would be.

For a Baptism to be successful, you have to have form and water, but you then receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus explicitly tells us that the Holy Spirit can not come until Jesus leaves. (I believe it’s in John 15-16 several times).

Hence, I believe Jesus would NOT be baptizing yet in order to prevent any confusion among the baptized.

“Wait, you mean being baptized BY JESUS is not as great as being baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS”?!?!?

“Well, yeah.”

But it seems there has to be something quasi-sacramental to it, much like a non-Catholic baptism which only “takes effect” once a person becomes Catholic.

 

[NotWorthy]

But it seems there has to be something quasi-sacramental to it, much like a non-Catholic baptism which only “takes effect” once a person becomes Catholic.

I don’t know, but what do you mean baptisms that take effect once someone becomes Catholic? The Church recognizes Non-Catholic baptisms that are performed according to the dictates of the Church as being fully Sacramental. I don’t want to take this enriching bible study off thread, so maybe this part can be started in a new thread.

But, Baptism either infuses your soul with the Holy Spirit or it doesn’t. Period.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

I don’t know, but what do you mean baptisms that take effect once someone becomes Catholic? The Church recognizes Non-Catholic baptisms that are performed according to the dictates of the Church as being fully Sacramental. I don’t want to take this enriching bible study off thread, so maybe this part can be started in a new thread.

But, Baptism either infuses your soul with the Holy Spirit or it doesn’t. Period.

My understanding was that, following St. Augustine’s anti-pelagian writings, that the baptisms of non-Catholics are valid but not sacramental until they enter the Catholic Church.

But that’s another thread.

 

[NotWorthy]

My understanding was that, following St. Augustine’s anti-pelagian writings, that the baptisms of non-Catholics are valid but not sacramental until they enter the Catholic Church.

But that’s another thread.

Great! I can’t wait to get to the Woman at the Well!!!

Hurry up, CM!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

John, chapter 4
1: Now when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
2: (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),
3: he left Judea and departed again to Galilee.
4: He had to pass through Samar’ia.
5: So he came to a city of Samar’ia, called Sy’char, near the field that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
6: Jacob’s well was there, and so Jesus, wearied as he was with his journey, sat down beside the well. It was about the sixth hour.
7: There came a woman of Samar’ia to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.”
8: For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.
9: The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samar’ia?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.
10: Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, Give me a drink,' you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water." 11: The woman said to him, "Sir, you have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep; where do you get that living water? 12: Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, and his sons, and his cattle?" 13: Jesus said to her, "Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14: but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." 15: The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw." 16: Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here." 17: The woman answered him, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, I have no husband’;
18: for you have had five husbands, and he whom you now have is not your husband; this you said truly.”
19: The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.
20: Our fathers worshiped on this mountain; and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”
21: Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22: You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23: But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him.
24: God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25: The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things.”
26: Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”
27: Just then his disciples came. They marveled that he was talking with a woman, but none said, “What do you wish?” or, “Why are you talking with her?”
28: So the woman left her water jar, and went away into the city, and said to the people,
29: “Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?”
30: They went out of the city and were coming to him.
31: Meanwhile the disciples besought him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”
32: But he said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.”
33: So the disciples said to one another, “Has any one brought him food?”
34: Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work.
35: Do you not say, There are yet four months, then comes the harvest'? I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see how the fields are already white for harvest. 36: He who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. 37: For here the saying holds true, One sows and another reaps.’
38: I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor; others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”
39: Many Samaritans from that city believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.”
40: So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them; and he stayed there two days.
41: And many more believed because of his word.
42: They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of your words that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.”

 

[Church_Militant]

John, chapter 4:43-54
43: After the two days he departed to Galilee.
44: For Jesus himself testified that a prophet has no honor in his own country.
45: So when he came to Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him, having seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the feast, for they too had gone to the feast.
46: So he came again to Cana in Galilee, where he had made the water wine. And at Caper’na-um there was an official whose son was ill.
47: When he heard that Jesus had come from Judea to Galilee, he went and begged him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death.
48: Jesus therefore said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.”
49: The official said to him, “Sir, come down before my child dies.”
50: Jesus said to him, “Go; your son will live.” The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went his way.
51: As he was going down, his servants met him and told him that his son was living.
52: So he asked them the hour when he began to mend, and they said to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.”
53: The father knew that was the hour when Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live”; and he himself believed, and all his household.
54: This was now the second sign that Jesus did when he had come from Judea to Galilee.

 

[katy]

Sometimes I wonder how all this appeared to the people at the time. Surely not like an over-hyped televangelist? How could they follow him around in crowds, didn’t they have jobs and such? His great love and kindness must have shown thru to everyone who was truly open, and his miracles backed up his claims. I just have a difficult time imagining these scenes.

 

[maryj]

When Jesus met the Samaritan woman, he did so in a context of tension. there was historical hostility between the two peoples due to civil war. There was religious hostility between the heretic samaritans and the true-believing Jews. Not only that but He was a man and she a woman, alone togethar in an isolated and dangerous teritiory. spooky!!! To feel that uneasiness in modern terms imagine and Israeli male meeting a Palestinian woman in an out of the way desert place. Imagine the TENSION!!! And what does Jesus do? Whatever initial tensions there were He calms the waters and offered the woman the saving love that would transform her. What a conversion, I’ll bet we can all learn something from that conversion that would help us in leading someone to Christ.

1. Create a trust situation.(4: 7-9) Jesus was tired and decided to rest by the well. A woman shows up to get water, He dispells the tensions by asking her for a drink of water. He asked her for a favor.He asked her for a favor before He did her a favor. He offered her control of the situation, leaving it up to her to make the decision. would she oblige or would she show her hostilities. I believe she chose the latter of the two. Jesus led her to see her inner lonliness and anxiety. He led her to express herself to Him. He moved her towards…a new possibility.
2. Recognize the other persons need and let them know it (4:10-12) he’s got her attention. If she understood the gift of God that he was offering her, she would be asking for it. He let’s her misunderstand, she tell’s him "you have no bucket, she loosens up a little and asks him if he thinks he’s better than Jacob who built this well. she see’s something likeable in this supposed enemy. The second step of her conversion is occuring…She likes Him.
3. Become more direct. He has put her at ease. They are no longer strangers, she feels accepted by him. He is not a hostile Jew bent on humiliating her. he tells her He can give her more than living waters. he is ministering to her spiritual needs. He tells her "indeed he is greater than Jacob who gives you only a well to satisfy your physical thirst. He can give her everlating water to satisfy her spiritual thirst forever. What’s her response…“give me this water”
4. a call to be moral.(4:16-18) Go get your husband He says to her. She replies I have no husband. Jesus just as quickly replies that she was right. She had had five husbands, and the man she was with now was not her lawful husband. He asked her to face her immoral choices. there is no conversion so long as the moral issues of her life were not confronted. what’s the decison, experience a loss (infidelity) to gain a new life of trust and love.How quickly she tries to change the subject “Let’s talk about the dispute between the Jews and Samaritans”…He wanted to talk about her soul, she wanted to talk theology. What drama, MORAL CONVERSION.
5. Invite the person to faith(4:20-26) Jesus didn’t act like a preacher, he didn’t intimidate her with accusations, berate her with her sins, forecasting hell for her sins, he simply placed a mirror in front of her. she saw what was there. he was more interested in helping her believe in a future of love, than making her feel bad about her past. she was trying to buy some time to face her issues. He was digging “a well” in her awareness, trying to bring forth the waters of faith and love.Come, see, believe. Slowly she says " I know the Messiah is coming" she is ready to meet her savior. She uttered a plea for salvation. His reply…“I am” he confided in that woman, who did not know Him only a short time before, His most precious secret, “I am” Her conversion is illustrated by leaving the pot by the well, going back to her town and preaching the Good News to her friends and relatives. Great story. I believe my conversion went exactly the same way. Praise God.

 

[NotWorthy]

MaryJ, I’m going to take a different approach, but remember that there are multiple meanings to each story, especially in the Gospel of John.

I call it the Shrek Theory. John’s got layers!!!

I first heard this from a talk by Scott Hahn, and then I ran across this on AgapeBibleStudy.Com, which admittedly uses a lot of Scott Hahn and the Navarre Bible for commentaries and interpretations (not bad company in my view). I highly recommend their study of the Gospel of John.

Only a faithful remnant of the 10 tribes would eventually return from exile to the Galilee, the rest of that land would become known by the name of the capital city of the Northern Kingdom, Samaria. Samaria would be ruled by foreign nations and would be inhabited by 5 foreign tribes of peoples who brought with them their false gods and coupled their pagan worship along with their own interpretation of the worship of Yahweh.

It would be to a descendant of these people that Jesus would share His Gospel of salvation when He spoke to the woman of Samaria in the Gospel of John chapter 4 telling her that she had 5 “husbands” and the man with he now was not her “husband” [see http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john4.htm#v16”]John 4:16-18, & the Gospel of John study chapter 4]. Jesus would also tell the Samaritan woman that she worshiped what she did not understand and that salvation was from the Jews John 4:22].

This is a significant exchange in light of the history of this woman’s people. According to Hebrew tradition a concubine could only call her man “master” or “baal”—only a legal wife had the right to address her man as “husband.” “Baal” was also the name applied to a variety of Canaanite false gods. Like her people who had worshipped 5 false gods or ‘baals’ in addition to the distorted worship of Yahweh this woman had 5 men in her life and the man currently with her was not her “husband”—just as Yahweh was not truly her people’s God.

Hosea’s prophecy of the restoration of the nation of Israel in Hosea 2:18-20 is significant in light of Jesus’ exchange with this woman who inhabited the land of the lost Israel. The prophecy reads: “When that day comes—declares Yahweh—you will call me, ‘My Husband’, no more will you call me, ‘My Baal.’ I shall banish the names of the Baals from her lips and their name will be mentioned no more.”

This prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus Christ who took the New Israel, the universal Church as His Bride, gathering the lost tribes of Israel that has been scattered among the Gentile nations back into the Covenant family of God beginning with the Gentiles of Samaria [see http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts1.htm#v8”]Acts 1:8

; 8:5-6 & 14-17].