CAF Bible Study - The Gospel of John

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60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”

I was just thinking about this verse…

Isn’t this the essential response of all of us whenever we hit upon something that really calls for supernatural grace to carry out?

It seems like this reaction is probably the beginning of all doubts.
 
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”

I was just thinking about this verse…

Isn’t this the essential response of all of us whenever we hit upon something that really calls for supernatural grace to carry out?

It seems like this reaction is probably the beginning of all doubts.
What’s important about this verse and the ‘hard saying’ makes it perfectly clear that Jesus was talking about the Eucharist. And He made it clearer by saying “Amen, Amen…”, which means to us…pay attention now, Jesus is going to say something really important. It is a great passage, and a great consolation.
mgrfin
 
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”

I was just thinking about this verse…

Isn’t this the essential response of all of us whenever we hit upon something that really calls for supernatural grace to carry out?

It seems like this reaction is probably the beginning of all doubts.
Or maybe the begining of all understanding. Do we not sometimes need to ask the question “how can this be true?”, to start the process of actually knowing what the truth is.Isn’t this the start of faith surrender(getting ahead of myself. But Jesus states that “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted by my Father” verse 65. He knew we would need faith to understand and believe.
 
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”

I was just thinking about this verse…

Isn’t this the essential response of all of us whenever we hit upon something that really calls for supernatural grace to carry out?

It seems like this reaction is probably the beginning of all doubts.
It’s almost like a parable – and like in other parables, we can see ourselves. There are a great many who want Christ and His Apostles to say what they want him to say, and ignore what He really said.
 
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Which is harder to believe, that God could give a mysterious (what is it) bread from heaven – and that thousands would ignore that miracle in preference for asking for “MEAT” – the flesh pots in Egypt? (OT scripture).
Or that when God offers the reverse, not in punishment but in gift – his own flesh – that they should now grumble again all these years later saying that “God” can’t produce meat?

Either way, Judgement follows on the interpretation – and only the Faithful can possibly survive. Lord, I can’t comprehend – but I believe.

I don’t find the Jewish confusion before the sacrifice of the Cross was made manifest to be a surprise. To eat human flesh is a curse in the language of their day, and so naturally they had to grapple with what was said. Were it not for faith and the example in punishment of their forefathers, I would totally understand their inability to make sense of what Jesus said.
 
Which is harder to believe, that God could give a mysterious (what is it) bread from heaven – and that thousands would ignore that miracle in preference for asking for “MEAT” – the flesh pots in Egypt? (OT scripture).
Or that when God offers the reverse, not in punishment but in gift – his own flesh – that they should now grumble again all these years later saying that “God” can’t produce meat?

Either way, Judgement follows on the interpretation – and only the Faithful can possibly survive. Lord, I can’t comprehend – but I believe.

I don’t find the Jewish confusion before the sacrifice of the Cross was made manifest to be a surprise. To eat human flesh is a curse in the language of their day, and so naturally they had to grapple with what was said. Were it not for faith and the example in punishment of their forefathers, I would totally understand their inability to make sense of what Jesus said.
Flesh pots…Exodus 16:1-3 the grumbling from the Israelites came on the fifteenth day of the second month, the Sabbath day. I thought that was kinda ironic!!!
 
John Chapter 7

[1] After this Jesus went about in Galilee; he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.
[2] Now the Jews’ feast of Tabernacles was at hand.
[3] So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, that your disciples may see the works you are doing.
[4] For no man works in secret if he seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.”
[5] For even his brothers did not believe in him.
[6] Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
[7] The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
[8] Go to the feast yourselves; I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
[9] So saying, he remained in Galilee.
[10] But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.
[11] The Jews were looking for him at the feast, and saying, “Where is he?”
[12] And there was much muttering about him among the people. While some said, “He is a good man,” others said, “No, he is leading the people astray.”
[13] Yet for fear of the Jews no one spoke openly of him.
[14] About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught.
[15] The Jews marveled at it, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?”
[16] So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;
[17] if any man’s will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
[18] He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.
[19] Did not Moses give you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?”
[20] The people answered, “You have a demon! Who is seeking to kill you?”
[21] Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel at it.
[22] Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man upon the sabbath.
[23] If on the sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the sabbath I made a man’s whole body well?
[24] Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
[25] Some of the people of Jerusalem therefore said, “Is not this the man whom they seek to kill?
[26] And here he is, speaking openly, and they say nothing to him! Can it be that the authorities really know that this is the Christ?
[27] Yet we know where this man comes from; and when the Christ appears, no one will know where he comes from.”
[28] So Jesus proclaimed, as he taught in the temple, “You know me, and you know where I come from? But I have not come of my own accord; he who sent me is true, and him you do not know.
[29] I know him, for I come from him, and he sent me.”
[30] So they sought to arrest him; but no one laid hands on him, because his hour had not yet come.
[31] Yet many of the people believed in him; they said, “When the Christ appears, will he do more signs than this man has done?”
[32] The Pharisees heard the crowd thus muttering about him, and the chief priests and Pharisees sent officers to arrest him.
[33] Jesus then said, “I shall be with you a little longer, and then I go to him who sent me;
[34] you will seek me and you will not find me; where I am you cannot come.”
[35] The Jews said to one another, “Where does this man intend to go that we shall not find him? Does he intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks?
[36] What does he mean by saying, You will seek me and you will not find me,' and, Where I am you cannot come’?”
[37] On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and proclaimed, “If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink.
[38] He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, `Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.’”
[39] Now this he said about the Spirit, which those who believed in him were to receive; for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
 
[40] When they heard these words, some of the people said, “This is really the prophet.”
[41] Others said, “This is the Christ.” But some said, “Is the Christ to come from Galilee?
[42] Has not the scripture said that the Christ is descended from David, and comes from Bethlehem, the village where David was?”
[43] So there was a division among the people over him.
[44] Some of them wanted to arrest him, but no one laid hands on him.
[45] The officers then went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why did you not bring him?”
[46] The officers answered, “No man ever spoke like this man!”
[47] The Pharisees answered them, “Are you led astray, you also?
[48] Have any of the authorities or of the Pharisees believed in him?
[49] But this crowd, who do not know the law, are accursed.”
[50] Nicode’mus, who had gone to him before, and who was one of them, said to them,
[51] “Does our law judge a man without first giving him a hearing and learning what he does?”
[52] They replied, “Are you from Galilee too? Search and you will see that no prophet is to rise from Galilee.”
[53] They went each to his own house,
 
The feast of Tabernacles celebrated the autumn harvest and the hope for winter rain to help along the spring growing period. It also honored the memory of Israel’s forty year pilgrimage in the desert after the Red Sea crossing. As the farmers engaged in rain making rituals, the priest carried a golden bowl of water from the pool of Siloam to the temple where he poured it on the altar. The priest prayed for rain, but also implored God for an outpouring of the divine spirit of compassion. Rain for the earth. A divine spirit for the human heart.
 
Jesus’ relatives don’t seem to have cared much about his safety if they were urging him to go to Judea when he had been avoiding it due to the ones who wanted to kill him.
 
John Chapter 7

[1] After this Jesus went about in Galilee; he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.
[2] Now the Jews’ feast of Tabernacles was at hand.
[3] So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, that your disciples may see the works you are doing.
[4] For no man works in secret if he seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.”
[5] For even his brothers did not believe in him.
[6] Jesus said to them, "My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
Code:
As I read the Bible, I seem to put myself there.  I want to feel what the disciples felt during those days.  They were still challenging Christ's powers as if they did not fully beleive yet.  "Show yourself to the world!" They were daring Him here. I'm ashamed of those feelings as they might of been my thoughts at that time. It seems to me that Christ chose not to walk with them to Judea, because He perceived their thoughts. Instead, He chose to walk seperatly to the Temple later (v14).  The disciples have been with Jesus a year or two, and they were still afraid. 
  Think of them as 12 young men around 30 yrs.old against hundreds of people.  Now think of them in the world today. I have a son who is 27. He is very troubled. The Holy Spirit has been helping me see my son  clearer thru spiritual thoughts of the disciples.  Please pray for my son.      Sincerely, Franny
 
Originally Posted by franny33
I have a son who is 27. He is very troubled. The Holy Spirit has been helping me see my son clearer thru spiritual thoughts of the disciples. Please pray for my son. Sincerely, Franny
As Rudyard Kipling said,
“Those who little children have
Give hostages to pain.”

Franny, hold on to your son. Love and prayer is the best advice – and we are all definitely praying for you and him.
 
franny, here is a prayer that my mother prayed for her troubled son…
I pray to You, O Lord, for a very special family intention (name concern) You promised us that whatever we ask from you in Your name will be granted. I, for my part, will do what I can, Lord,but without your help, I can accomplish nothing. Grant that my will may always be one with yours. Amen.

We ask this in your name, for you are Lord forever and ever.Amen
 
I never realized that John liked to arrange his Gospel of Jesus around religious feast of the Jewish calendar.
so practically speaking, the most important aspect of Tabernacles was rain. Prayers for rain were chanted. If rain fell during the festival it was a good omen. every morning a rain procession was held. The pilgrims marched to the spring of Gihon at the foot of the temple mount. when the priest filled the golden bowl they sang, “with joy you draw water at the fountain of salvation” (Is 12:3) The pilgrims carried myrtle and willow branches tied with palm in their right hands (this symbolized their tents) they carried lemons in their left hands, symbolizing the harvest. They sang and chanted waving branches. The people were praying for water. Jesus stood up and said " Let anyone who thirsts, come to me and drink" Whoever believes in me, as scriptures says, “Rivers of living water will flow from within him” John 7:37-38. Jesus proclaimed their prayers had been answered. He was the response to their hopes. Tabernacles meant more than rain. it also contained within it the hopes for the messiah. Zechariah had predicted that living waters would flow from Jerusalem. Jesus announced that the living waters were now here. What is this water?
 
[31] Yet many of the people believed in him; they said, “When the Christ appears, will he do more signs than this man has done?”

One of the very best reasons to be a totally committed follower of Him. 🙂
 
I love chapter 7!!! I did a piece on it for our class at Church. Here’s part of it:
In verse 37, we get to the heart of this story (Imagine a large Mass. In the middle of Mass, Jesus stands up and says). On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood up and cried out: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me; let him drink who believes in me. Scripture has it: 'From within him rivers of living water shall flow." Jesus sort of comes out of left field on that one. In the middle of the Jewish liturgy, Jesus stands up and says, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me”…
This is a perfect example of our need to understand the Jewish culture. On the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, during the Liturgy, the Levites would go down to the pool of Saloom, fill a huge pitcher of water, and proceed back to the temple. They would circle the altar seven times. Then they would pour the water out over the altar and let it wash down onto the floor. This is what’s going on when Jesus stands up and makes this statement. Becomes a little clearer, right?
But it goes deeper. This ritual is part of prophecy from the Old Testament. The Scripture comes from Ezekiel 47, which is read in the Jewish Liturgy for this feast. It starts off with Ezekiel being brought to the entrance of the Temple, where he saw “water flowing out from the threshold of the temple towards the east”. The water was issuing out from under the altar of the temple, the heart of the temple. Ezekiel leaves the altar and starts walking. As he walks, he measures the depth of the water. In verse 3, the water is ankle deep. In verse 4, it is knee deep, then it’s waist deep. In verse 5, it became a river that could only be crossed by swimming. In verse 8, he hears, "This water flows into the eastern district down upon the Arabah (Arabia), and empties into the sea, the salt waters, which it makes it fresh (it cleanses the Dead Sea). Where ever the river goes there’s life. And one of the key themes to John is “Life”. (9) Wherever the river flows, every sort of living creature that can multiply shall live, and there shall be abundant fish, for wherever this water comes the sea shall be made fresh. (10) Fishermen shall be standing along it from En-gedi to Eneglaim, spreading their nets there.
Does this bring anything to mind? Jesus called the disciples (fishermen) to become “fishers of men”. It goes on to describe trees that bear fresh fruit every month, for they shall be watered by the flow from the sanctuary. Does anyone know what the Old Testament means when it describes trees bearing fruit? We’ll see this in the Gospel of Mark, but the fruit from trees are the good works of righeous men.
So, let’s go back to the Jewish Feast. Back in Ezekiel chapter 10, Ezekiel had a vision of the “Shekinah” the Holy Spirit leaving the Temple. The Feast of Tabernacles is the feast of the Temple. It celebrates Solomon when he originally dedicated the Temple, and the “Shekinah”, the Glory Cloud of the Holy Spirit descending upon the Temple and remaining there. So in your mind, what are the Jews trying to invoke with the water being poured onto the altar and reading from Ezekiel? The Jews feel that when the Holy Spirit returns to the Temple, it will overflow with this life-giving source of the Holy Spirit (which the water symbolizes) and spread Israel’s glory throughout the land.
Continued
 
To Continue…
With that in mind, let’s look again at what Jesus means when he says, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me”… If we look at Ezekiel, we see that the water will flow from the altar of the Temple, but Jesus says, ***“Scripture has it: ‘From within him rivers of living water shall flow’”. Why does Jesus change the Scripture? In John, 2:18-19, at this the Jews answered and said to him, “What sign can you show us for doing this?”***Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."What does Jesus mean by saying this? The Temple Jesus is referring to, is His Body. “Destroy this body, and I will raise it up on the third day”, but they did not understand Him.
So Jesus is showing the true meaning of Ezekiel. The water, that gives life to everything it touches, is the living water. And Jesus is the Temple from which this living water flows. What is this living water? It is the Life Jesus gives us through the Holy Spirit. The water getting deeper as Ezekiel’s walking away from the Temple represents Time, and the water’s depth increasing as time passes, represents Jesus’ Gospel spreading throughout the World. The Growth of the Church through the Holy Spirit springs from the Sacred Heart of Jesus! John is telling us that Jesus is the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s vision.
John tells us that (vs. 39), “Here he was referring to the Spirit, whom those that came to believe in him were to receive. There was, of course, no Spirit as yet, since Jesus had not yet been glorified”.
 
Not bad NotWorthy!

It’s nice to see some of us actively working in our parishes like that.

God bless you and please keep it up! 👍
 
[1] After this Jesus went about in Galilee; he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.

There is a division between brothers and disciples here, v2, so I think this might refer to Jesus’ relatives (cousins) who did not believe in him.
The juxtaposition of vs 1 with 2-5 suggests that some of Jesus’ relatives thought to either cow him or get rid of him.

[6] Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
[7] The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
[8] Go to the feast yourselves; I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”

Yet, Jesus’ statement is highly curious. The time of the devil and darkness at the feast is first. Yet the feast itself is one of three that are mandatory for all males: Exod 23:17, Deute 16:16,

Numbe9:13 would cut off anyone from the people of Israel who does not celebrate the passover because the sacrifice is mandatory.

Yet the sacrifice of atonement (Yom Kipur?) is the traditional reason for going to the feast of booths early. Yet this year Jesus does not go…

I wonder what it would have signified to his ‘brethren’ that he went not up with them when the law of Moses commanded it?

[11] The Jews were looking for him at the feast, and saying,
“Where is he?”
[12] And there was much muttering about him among the people. While some said, “He is a good man,” others said, “No, he is leading the people astray.”
[13] Yet for fear of the Jews no one spoke openly of him.

The passover feast is not for many months yet – so all the people had the better part of a year to think about his words before the crucifixion.
 
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