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lak611
Guest
True, but in addition to studying a particular book of the Bible, we also have to look at the entire Bible to understand everything in the proper context.
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Indyann
Guest
I don’t know about anyone else, but this really describes me when it comes to so many of the folks that come around me with non-Catholic ideas that they say are in the Bible. Door to door “witnesses” and such especially.
The only way I can really describe it is that I really don’t hear my Good Shepherd’s voice, and that makes me skittish and uneasy.
I know exactly what you mean. I listen to a lot of “talk radio” at night and sometimes if there is nothing I am interested in, I will flip around the dial and find s “Christian” radio station. I will listen for a few (very few) minutes to hear what they have to say.
It is worse than fingernails on a chalkboard.
I simply cannot take it.
Lord, forgive these poor misguided people.
L
lak611
Guest
What strikes me is that we, as Catholics, can give a good witness, like John the Baptist did. We need to follow his example, not that of the radio preachers, to bring people to Jesus in His Church.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
M
maryj
Guest
Psalm 23, who doesn’t recall the words of this Psalm. It must have been one of Jesus’ favorites, for He loved to use the image of the shepherd.
The shepherds of Spain have handed down a traditional interpretation of this Psalm based on their own experiences with their flocks. The opening verse, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want,” speaks about the trusting attitude of the sheep. They know the shepherd will take care of them. “He makes me to lie down in green pastures” The grazing habits of sheep are strictly structured. At 3:30 a.m. they begin eating and continue until 10:00a.m. when they rest. the shepherd directs them first to the rough grass, then to the smoother grass, and finally to the rich, fine sweet grass of the pasture. Then he"makes them lie down" contentedly in the verdant pasture.
Jesus feeds us first with the rough grass of challenging Christian ideas. He does not give us soft religion, but one that opens us up to the difficulties of loving others, serving their needs, struggling for justice, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick etc. But he knows we need the sweeter grass, so he makes us lie down in green pastures, knowing that we need the quiet time of prayer and the rest of contemplation where our souls are renewed by the stream of power from His divine energy. sheep will not drink from running streams. “Beside restful waters he leads me” The shepherd often constructs little pools of still water so the sheep may drink. Jesus know we will not find refreshing water on the fast track of life. He brings us to stillness, he announced this at Tabernacls and delivers on this promise by himself being the source of restful waters.
and then the verse we all know, that is so familiar “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for you are with me” There is actually a vally of the shadow of death in Palestine.It is a narrow pass, stretching 4 miles from Jerusalem to the dead sea. the width seldom exceed 15 feet. Twice a year the shepherd would take their flocks through it, because of change of season. The sheep will encounter three dangers, first a raveeen that the sheep would have to be coaxed to leep over. If a sheep fell into the ravene the shepherd would use the curved end of the staff to pull them out. Second was pointed sharp rocks, then was wild dogs and wolves who prowl the valley. the shepherd would use the pointed end of the staff to drive away these enemies “your rod and staff they comfort me”
At night the sheep would enter one by one into the sheepfold. There is only one opening. The walls of the encloser are made of rocks piled on one another and topped with thorn bushes to keep out predatory animals. the shepherd then inspects each one for cuts and fever. Any sheep wounded will be anointed with oil, and to cool the animals fever the shepherd plunges the head of the sheep into a basin of cool water to lower the temp. "You annoint my head with oil. My cup overlfows. There is no gate on the sheepfold. the shepherd lies down at the one opening, becoming the living door. He guards them with his body. Jesus says he is the gate of the sheepfold.
We must go through him whose body serves as the gate to happiness. He inspects us for the cuts of sin and a fever of passions. He plunges our heads into the waters of baptism to allay the fevers of passion that have imprisioned us in sin. He annoints our cuts of sin with the oils of confirmationthat we may have courage to withstand evil. he uses the curved end of his staff -reconciliation-to pull us up so we can start again. He makes it possible for goodness and kindness to be our goals all the days of our lives. Jesus is the Shepherd. He guards us from fears. what a blessing.
The shepherds of Spain have handed down a traditional interpretation of this Psalm based on their own experiences with their flocks. The opening verse, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want,” speaks about the trusting attitude of the sheep. They know the shepherd will take care of them. “He makes me to lie down in green pastures” The grazing habits of sheep are strictly structured. At 3:30 a.m. they begin eating and continue until 10:00a.m. when they rest. the shepherd directs them first to the rough grass, then to the smoother grass, and finally to the rich, fine sweet grass of the pasture. Then he"makes them lie down" contentedly in the verdant pasture.
Jesus feeds us first with the rough grass of challenging Christian ideas. He does not give us soft religion, but one that opens us up to the difficulties of loving others, serving their needs, struggling for justice, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick etc. But he knows we need the sweeter grass, so he makes us lie down in green pastures, knowing that we need the quiet time of prayer and the rest of contemplation where our souls are renewed by the stream of power from His divine energy. sheep will not drink from running streams. “Beside restful waters he leads me” The shepherd often constructs little pools of still water so the sheep may drink. Jesus know we will not find refreshing water on the fast track of life. He brings us to stillness, he announced this at Tabernacls and delivers on this promise by himself being the source of restful waters.
and then the verse we all know, that is so familiar “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for you are with me” There is actually a vally of the shadow of death in Palestine.It is a narrow pass, stretching 4 miles from Jerusalem to the dead sea. the width seldom exceed 15 feet. Twice a year the shepherd would take their flocks through it, because of change of season. The sheep will encounter three dangers, first a raveeen that the sheep would have to be coaxed to leep over. If a sheep fell into the ravene the shepherd would use the curved end of the staff to pull them out. Second was pointed sharp rocks, then was wild dogs and wolves who prowl the valley. the shepherd would use the pointed end of the staff to drive away these enemies “your rod and staff they comfort me”
At night the sheep would enter one by one into the sheepfold. There is only one opening. The walls of the encloser are made of rocks piled on one another and topped with thorn bushes to keep out predatory animals. the shepherd then inspects each one for cuts and fever. Any sheep wounded will be anointed with oil, and to cool the animals fever the shepherd plunges the head of the sheep into a basin of cool water to lower the temp. "You annoint my head with oil. My cup overlfows. There is no gate on the sheepfold. the shepherd lies down at the one opening, becoming the living door. He guards them with his body. Jesus says he is the gate of the sheepfold.
We must go through him whose body serves as the gate to happiness. He inspects us for the cuts of sin and a fever of passions. He plunges our heads into the waters of baptism to allay the fevers of passion that have imprisioned us in sin. He annoints our cuts of sin with the oils of confirmationthat we may have courage to withstand evil. he uses the curved end of his staff -reconciliation-to pull us up so we can start again. He makes it possible for goodness and kindness to be our goals all the days of our lives. Jesus is the Shepherd. He guards us from fears. what a blessing.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
[16] And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
Anyone have any ideas on what precisely this can mean?
One note from Haydock’s commentary simply says:
Anyone got some commentary that can kinda clear that up?
Anyone have any ideas on what precisely this can mean?
One note from Haydock’s commentary simply says:
I mean, this could, be used to infer a lot of things. Anyone familiar with C. S. Lewis sci-fi trilogy might see in this a statement about souls from another world (or worlds for that matter!), as well as the Jews, or even the Protestants.
Anyone got some commentary that can kinda clear that up?
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lak611
Guest
I don’t have a commentary, but I interpret this as meaning the Protestants. They are Christians, but they do not have the fullness of faith that is found in the Catholic Church.
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Indyann
Guest
Not a sci-fi fan here, so I never really thought about it referring to souls from another world. I suppose it is possible, though.
I thought it referred to the Father being the creator of all mankind, and it his Holy Will that all be a member of His one flock.
The other sheep, being ones outside the fold of Israel.
B
Bishopite
Guest
I’ve only read that this means the Gentiles. My Catholic Answer Bible says…
“10:16: Other sheep: the Gentiles, possibly a reference to “God’s dispersed children” of 11,52 destined to be gathered into one, or “apostolic Christians” at odds with the community of the beloved disciple.”
John 11:52 “and not only for the nation, but also to gather into one the dispersed children of God”
Mormons will claim God is speaking about them in John 10:16, yet that they didn’t appear until the 1800"s, and it doesn’t make sense why God would wait such a long time to “finally” give us the true gospel with 1800 years of Christian theology.
And based on the John 1 giving such a powerful argument for Christ’s divinity and that the book of John is written to prove Jesus is divine. And then the councils starting with Nicea 325 AD which defined the Trinity. This evidence shows the Mormon position is false.
Well, in a broader sense it could mean Protestants or even those who haven’t heard the gospel but live according to the natural moral law…(Luke 12:48) according to the grace they received.
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maryj
Guest
I’ll go with the Gentiles too.
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Indyann
Guest
What about the Samaritans? They were cast out from the Jews and they were not Gentiles.
They were not allowed to worship with Jews or “drink from the well of salvation”.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Good points all, and all I have considered. In the end, i guess one could say it could even be “all of the above”?
I just wondered if anyone else had anything on it that offered anything I wasn’t familiar with.
(BTW, the C.S. Lewis books begin with one called Out of the Silent Planet, and are actually very much Christian as one begins to find out the farther one reads. Good stuff…)
I just wondered if anyone else had anything on it that offered anything I wasn’t familiar with.
(BTW, the C.S. Lewis books begin with one called Out of the Silent Planet, and are actually very much Christian as one begins to find out the farther one reads. Good stuff…)
C
Church_Militant
Guest
[24] So the Jews gathered round him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
[25] Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me;
[26] but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep.
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
[28] and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[30] I and the Father are one.”
[31] The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
[32] Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?”
[33] The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
[34] Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law,
[37] If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
[38] but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
[39] Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.
[40] He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John at first baptized, and there he remained.
[41] And many came to him; and they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.”
[42] And many believed in him there.
This makes one of the best cases for the fact that Our Lord did indeed claim to be Divine.
[25] Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me;
[26] but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep.
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
[28] and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[30] I and the Father are one.”
[31] The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
[32] Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?”
[33] The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
[34] Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law,
I said, you are gods'? [35] If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), [36] do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming,’ because I said, `I am the Son of God’?[37] If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
[38] but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
[39] Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.
[40] He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John at first baptized, and there he remained.
[41] And many came to him; and they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.”
[42] And many believed in him there.
This makes one of the best cases for the fact that Our Lord did indeed claim to be Divine.
M
MH84
Guest
What did Jesus mean here after (t)he Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”? For me at a face value it looks like he was deferring them away from the claim that he ‘made Himself God’. What I men is that it seems Jesus is saying something like: Listen, if you read Scripture carefully, it says that all men are ‘gods’, so that if I make Myself God I am not blaspheming; you can say this about yourselves too!
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EHRAM
Guest
I think it depends on the version of the Bible. Some translations are in the public domain, e.g. KJV, but I don’t think all the modern translations are. The NAB is copyrighted.
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
I notice nearly the same thing, but the scripture Jesus is quoting:
Psalm 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk in darkness…
82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
82:7 But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
seems to indicate that those called ‘gods’ were worthy of death.
OTOH, perhaps son of Adam son of God… as the geneology
of Jesus goes … is a second meaning.
But something logical is probably missing here in the argument…
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Nita
Guest
I think He is saying that if it was okay (not blaspheming) to call “gods” those who received the OT scriptures (vs 35 …“to whom the word of God came”) then how could it possibly be wrong to call Son of God the one whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world to do the Father’s works.
In other words, the one who comes from the Father, does His works, speaks His words is obviously greater than those who just receive and hear the words. If its not blaspheming to call the receivers of the word “gods”, then it certainly would not be blaspheming to call the **giver/bringer **of the word “Son of God”.
Nita
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MH84
Guest
Makes sense to me. Thanks
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franny33
Guest
I’m sorry not to have written in a while, but I do keep up with the wonderful letters.
Once in a while I am blessed with a small miracle. I want to share. Back in JOHN 6:10 And Jesus said make the people sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about 5,000.
I dared to ask …where were all the women? No one answered me.
Recently at Mass, when I received the Holy Eucharist, I fell deep into a vision. I was sitting on that lush mountainside. A man let go of my hand, noded, smiled, and walked away into thousands of people. So yes there were women on that hill. Believe and Love.
Franny
Once in a while I am blessed with a small miracle. I want to share. Back in JOHN 6:10 And Jesus said make the people sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about 5,000.
I dared to ask …where were all the women? No one answered me.
Recently at Mass, when I received the Holy Eucharist, I fell deep into a vision. I was sitting on that lush mountainside. A man let go of my hand, noded, smiled, and walked away into thousands of people. So yes there were women on that hill. Believe and Love.
Franny
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franny33
Guest
Did you notice that Jesus used the word FATHER nine times in this group of verses. Thats just how important it must have been that He be called the SON or GOD’S SON. Although Jesus repeatedly announced He and the Father was One, it was too much for the people to comprehend. When He said, You are My sheep! 27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life. 30 The Father and I are One. Verses
27 thru 30 are so powerful. What a difference it would be to understand in that era rather than being alive now & able to READ & BELIEVE. Thank You Lord, Franny
27 thru 30 are so powerful. What a difference it would be to understand in that era rather than being alive now & able to READ & BELIEVE. Thank You Lord, Franny
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