CAF Bible Study - The Gospel of John

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Thanks Huiou. I always like reading your comments. Points catch your attention (eg. counsellor/consoler) for meditation that just slip right past me - until you bring it up. Thanks again.

By the way, can I ask how you pronouce your name? I’m always saying it in my head, but then get the feeling I’m not “think-saying” it right - (Hee/oo Too is who you’ve been to me so far! 🙂 )

Nita
Lets keep it simple, pronounce my name “Andrew” which is my given first name in English. The CAF handle is mostly because Greek scholars wouldn’t believe my real name anyway …

I learned Greek from a books and example – so I don’t pronounce my handle – in fact, I would probably mis-pronounce it myself. The first time I tried to ask a Greek speaking priest about the inner temple (eg: “naos”) was rather embarassing… it took him almost 30 seconds to figure out what the heck I was saying – writing is sooo much safer…
😃

P.S. I was just listening to Latin teacher with a Tennesee accent – I am pretty sure that is odd too!
 
P.S. I was just listening to Latin teacher with a Tennessee accent – I am pretty sure that is odd too!
I bet! :rotfl: About like being in karate and hearing Japanese kata names and terminology pronounced with a serious Alabama accent! Hoo boy! 😃

BTW, I too enjoyed your posts. Thanks! 👍
 
John Chapter 17

[1] When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee,
[2] since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
[3] And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
[4] I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do;
[5] and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.
[6] "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word.
[7] Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee;
[8] for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[9] I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine;
[10] all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them.
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
[12] While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
[13] But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
[14] I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[15] I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one.
[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
[20] “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
[21] that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22] The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
[23] I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.
[24] Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.
[25] O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me.
[26] I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
 
I am blown away by this chapter. But it is also so very sad. So many divisions, even in our own Church.
 
Jesus brings the glory of the Father to the simplicity of the Last Supper. In the Gospels Jesus often compares heaven to a joyous dinner party. In John’s gospel, Jesus transformed the Passover meal into a foretast of heaven. can’t you just see Him…at the dining room table, with his friends…a gesture to the table and to those seated around Him…“Now this is heaven” In heaven we don’t just stand and look from a far and peek at the glory. No in heaven we are close, like those at the table. We know our Father.
 
It’s probably 10 or more years since I’ve “prayed” this chapter. Can no longer remember all the circumstances, but I experienced an interior call that I should offer Our Lord’s prayer for union (John 17) in my prayer time. I wrote the chapter out in a small tablet and carried it with me in my purse, so it would be there when making visits. It was at a time when the dissension in the Church weighed heavy on my heart; also, the sorrow of not being able to share the fullness of our Catholic faith with a good Protestant friend. There was, and still is, such a longing to have us all be one and in union with Our Lord.

And I knew the sadness and longing I felt was nothing compared to what Our Lord experienced as He foresaw the coming centuries. This chapter always makes/made me think of how painful it must be for Jesus as He beholds all the dissent and division. I’m not sure why I stopped praying the chapter, but it seems like it might be a good idea to start again.

Nita
 
I am blown away by this chapter. But it is also so very sad. So many divisions, even in our own Church.
It’s probably 10 or more years since I’ve “prayed” this chapter. Can no longer remember all the circumstances, but I experienced an interior call that I should offer Our Lord’s prayer for union (John 17) in my prayer time. I wrote the chapter out in a small tablet and carried it with me in my purse, so it would be there when making visits. It was at a time when the dissension in the Church weighed heavy on my heart; also, the sorrow of not being able to share the fullness of our Catholic faith with a good Protestant friend. There was, and still is, such a longing to have us all be one and in union with Our Lord.

And I knew the sadness and longing I felt was nothing compared to what Our Lord experienced as He foresaw the coming centuries. This chapter always makes/made me think of how painful it must be for Jesus as He beholds all the dissent and division. I’m not sure why I stopped praying the chapter, but it seems like it might be a good idea to start again.

Nita
I was thinking the same thing as both of you when I read this chapter. I will pray this prayer of Our Lord for unity too.
 
John Chapter 18

[1] When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples across the Kidron valley, where there was a garden, which he and his disciples entered.
[2] Now Judas, who betrayed him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with his disciples.
[3] So Judas, procuring a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
[4] Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”
[5] They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
[6] When he said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
[7] Again he asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
[8] Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.”
[9] This was to fulfil the word which he had spoken, “Of those whom thou gavest me I lost not one.”
[10] Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave and cut off his right ear. The slave’s name was Malchus.
[11] Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup which the Father has given me?”
[12] So the band of soldiers and their captain and the officers of the Jews seized Jesus and bound him.
[13] First they led him to Annas; for he was the father-in-law of Ca’iaphas, who was high priest that year.
[14] It was Ca’iaphas who had given counsel to the Jews that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.
[15] Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple. As this disciple was known to the high priest, he entered the court of the high priest along with Jesus,
[16] while Peter stood outside at the door. So the other disciple, who was known to the high priest, went out and spoke to the maid who kept the door, and brought Peter in.
[17] The maid who kept the door said to Peter, “Are not you also one of this man’s disciples?” He said, “I am not.”
[18] Now the servants and officers had made a charcoal fire, because it was cold, and they were standing and warming themselves; Peter also was with them, standing and warming himself.
[19] The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching.
[20] Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly.
[21] Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me, what I said to them; they know what I said.”
[22] When he had said this, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, “Is that how you answer the high priest?”
[23] Jesus answered him, “If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?”
[24] Annas then sent him bound to Ca’iaphas the high priest.
[25] Now Simon Peter was standing and warming himself. They said to him, “Are not you also one of his disciples?” He denied it and said, “I am not.”
[26] One of the servants of the high priest, a kinsman of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, asked, “Did I not see you in the garden with him?”
[27] Peter again denied it; and at once the cock crowed.
[28] Then they led Jesus from the house of Ca’iaphas to the praetorium. It was early. They themselves did not enter the praetorium, so that they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.
[29] So Pilate went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this man?”
[30] They answered him, “If this man were not an evildoer, we would not have handed him over.”
[31] Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” The Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put any man to death.”
[32] This was to fulfil the word which Jesus had spoken to show by what death he was to die.
[33] Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?”
[34] Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?”
[35] Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have handed you over to me; what have you done?”
[36] Jesus answered, “My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.”
[37] Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.”
[38] Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went out to the Jews again, and told them, “I find no crime in him.
[39] But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover; will you have me release for you the King of the Jews?”
[40] They cried out again, “Not this man, but Barab’bas!” Now Barab’bas was a robber.
 
[4] Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”
[5] They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
[6] When he said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

This speaks to me of the power of Our Lord, even in surrender.

May God grant that we too find that same power in out surrender to Him.
 
I have wondered what the original purpose was for Peter carrying a sword.??
 
I have wondered what the original purpose was for Peter carrying a sword.??
I don’t really think it was that uncommon in Christ’s day. It may even have been more an issue of affording one. The Roman soldiers all carried them.

It’s interesting that Our Lord actually tells them to sell their cloak and buy a sword.
 
I’m still in chapter 17, so much work took over last week…
Rather than express the thoughts deeply, I’ll do a strafing run of short comments on my way to chapter 18 …
John Chapter 17

[1] When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee,

This “time” which refers to the judgement of the prince of this world, that is “the glory” – to have a gory death on the cross – yet if it is the crucifixion, what then is to “glorify” the father? And if not the cross itself, then what is this glory?
[2] since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
[4] Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”

A delightful pun. Do they truly seek him?
[8] Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.”
[9] This was to fulfil the word which he had spoken, “Of those whom thou gavest me I lost not one.”
And yet he just spoke of loosing the “son of perdition” though the judgement is only of the “prince of this world” . Judas the willing slave, as the Hebrews who sold themselves into Egyptian slavery.

Something equivocal to untangle… also hearkening back to “let my people Go!” – the firstborn were struck, and what of the firstborn of the prince of this world?

Is it tit for tat – you killed my children God – I kill yours?

Or again, Here Jesus turns his cheek – but he DOES NOT TURN his disciples cheeks. The orphans he defends, as he will not “leave them orphans”.
[15] Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple. As this disciple was known to the high priest, he entered the court of the high priest along with Jesus,
It appears to suggest the apostle John was high priestly…

This WHOLE section is looking for irony, equivocation, to force one to sift subtly for the proper meaning. Will Jesus turn the cheek in the future (why/why not?)
everything is in paradox and contrast.

Like the father teaching the son about snakes in the “Gods must be crazy2” – He points out snakes aren’t too bad – just don’t grab them by the sharp end – and then proceeds to beat the snake to death by grabbing its tail as a demonstration.
 
[5] They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
[6] When he said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

[17] The maid who kept the door said to Peter, “Are not you also one of this man’s disciples?” He said, “I am not.”

How’s that for sharp contrast, Jesus says “I am”, Peters’ response “I am not” . the truth vs. an outright lie. What is our response when confronted with this question in daily life. Are you a disciple of Jesus? I hope my answer will be yes, and yet I know sometimes the answer is “I am not”. How deep is our Lords mercy for us.
 
I wonder why they fell to the ground. They couldn’t have been surprised. Maybe they expected an armed offensive?
 
I am not sure why they fell down, except that the power of the name “I AM” is that of God. As a second thought, Judas himself appears to have picked the men to come apprehend Jesus and specifically brought them.

If they expected sword-play and fighting, I am not sure that they would have fallen to the ground or not – but it does seem possible. Jesus’ response may have been to save the lives of his Apostles, rather than his own life. There are several things which make the interpretation difficult;

– Certainly no one could Catch Jesus before this and kill him, even when they tried.

– Jesus had the power of God, but refused to use it frivolously as in the devils temptations in the desert of him. eg: turn these stones to bread. So, his use of Godly power comes with some kind of conditions.

– I don’t recall off the top of my head any other place where the apostles were in danger at the same time some were trying to apprehend Jesus.

– When before pilate, Jesus says the power to hand him over did not come from above. Regardless of who did it, the power does not appear to be heavenly – so implies some kind of human/devilish law that Jesus was bound to honor for some reason.

🤷
 
I wonder why they fell to the ground. They couldn’t have been surprised. Maybe they expected an armed offensive?
Ever since God had revealed his name to Moses at the burning bush “I AM”, there was always an experience of awe in the listeners. Constantly, throughout Johns gospel, Jesus applied this name to himself, identifying himself with God. The traitor and the troops had come to arrest Jesus. They found themselves encountering a mysterious force- The Lord. All of them fell back in awe before the Lord. He gave them an experience of awe, not to show off his divine “muscles” but to invite them to faith in his total person.
 
Ever since God had revealed his name to Moses at the burning bush “I AM”, there was always an experience of awe in the listeners. Constantly, throughout Johns gospel, Jesus applied this name to himself, identifying himself with God. The traitor and the troops had come to arrest Jesus. They found themselves encountering a mysterious force- The Lord. All of them fell back in awe before the Lord. He gave them an experience of awe, not to show off his divine “muscles” but to invite them to faith in his total person.
Thanks maryj. I especially liked your final insight - that the experience of awe granted them was an invite to faith.

Nita
 
Hello. I am new to CA and just discovered this Bible study. Where are we? What are we reading and discussing? :o
 
Hello. I am new to CA and just discovered this Bible study. Where are we? What are we reading and discussing? :o
🙂
John Chapter 18

[1] When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples across the Kidron valley, where there was a garden, which he and his disciples entered.
[2] Now Judas, who betrayed him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with his disciples.
[3] So Judas, procuring a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
[4] Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”
[5] They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
[6] When he said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
[7] Again he asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
[8] Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.”
[9] This was to fulfil the word which he had spoken, “Of those whom thou gavest me I lost not one.”
[10] Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave and cut off his right ear. The slave’s name was Malchus.
[11] Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup which the Father has given me?”
[12] So the band of soldiers and their captain and the officers of the Jews seized Jesus and bound him.
[13] First they led him to Annas; for he was the father-in-law of Ca’iaphas, who was high priest that year.
[14] It was Ca’iaphas who had given counsel to the Jews that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.
[15] Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple. As this disciple was known to the high priest, he entered the court of the high priest along with Jesus,
[16] while Peter stood outside at the door. So the other disciple, who was known to the high priest, went out and spoke to the maid who kept the door, and brought Peter in.
[17] The maid who kept the door said to Peter, “Are not you also one of this man’s disciples?” He said, “I am not.”
[18] Now the servants and officers had made a charcoal fire, because it was cold, and they were standing and warming themselves; Peter also was with them, standing and warming himself.
[19] The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching.
[20] Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly.
[21] Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me, what I said to them; they know what I said.”
[22] When he had said this, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, “Is that how you answer the high priest?”
[23] Jesus answered him, “If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?”
[24] Annas then sent him bound to Ca’iaphas the high priest.
[25] Now Simon Peter was standing and warming himself. They said to him, “Are not you also one of his disciples?” He denied it and said, “I am not.”
[26] One of the servants of the high priest, a kinsman of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, asked, “Did I not see you in the garden with him?”
[27] Peter again denied it; and at once the cock crowed.
[28] Then they led Jesus from the house of Ca’iaphas to the praetorium. It was early. They themselves did not enter the praetorium, so that they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.
[29] So Pilate went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this man?”
[30] They answered him, “If this man were not an evildoer, we would not have handed him over.”
[31] Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” The Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put any man to death.”
[32] This was to fulfil the word which Jesus had spoken to show by what death he was to die.
[33] Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?”
[34] Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?”
[35] Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have handed you over to me; what have you done?”
[36] Jesus answered, “My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.”
[37] Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.”
[38] Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went out to the Jews again, and told them, “I find no crime in him.
[39] But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover; will you have me release for you the King of the Jews?”
[40] They cried out again, “Not this man, but Barab’bas!” Now Barab’bas was a robber.
 
Can someone further comment on verses 8 and 9, as it is clear that Judas was now “lost”.

Thanks.
 
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