N
Nita
Guest
I have always connected the “all was now finished” with Our Lord’s gift to John (and by extension, us) of Mary as our mother. It is as though it is the final thing He must do for us, his “finishing” act of love.
Nita
- Status
Nita
R
richard6
Guest
Nita, I link the presence at the foot of the cross at the end of John’s gospel to her presence at the beginning of the same gospel. Cana and the celebration of the first changing of the flowing water in wine full of spirit become linked to the changing of the blood full of the new Holy Spirit that purifies our hearts. Mary becomes the WITNESS of the success of the Holy Eucharist. She stands at the alpha and at the omega of the MYSTERY.
God BLESS !!!
N
Nita
Guest
Thanks Richard. Your comments made me think of all the “beginnings” where Mary was present: the very beginning of His incarnational presence (conception in the womb); the beginning of His life outside the womb (birth); the beginning of His public ministry (Cana); the beginning of the Church (Pentecost).
And then there is also the presence of Mary in the very beginning of the Bible (prophetically present) in the woman whose seed will crush the serpent - and at the very end of the Bible as the woman crowned with twelve stars.
Nita
R
richard6
Guest
Very good, Nita! Thank you!I feel that John who has been given to Mary as her second son at the foot of the cross had to replace Jesus as minister of the transformation “transsubstanciation” going on during the banquet of the Eucharist. A man had to replace the MAN…a son to replace the Son. And I feel also that the banquet is the event that Father, Son and here Mary the mother of the church wanted for the way to forgiveness of sins or to purification of hearts. Look who attended this glorification…they were well known sinners, followers of Jesus. His mission was to take away the sins of the world.
A
abbot
Guest
yes it is perfectly all right to post scripture the Holy Bible belongs to all not just to somone that has copy it themdelves there all kinds of scripture and Christ was the author so
if it’s ok with him then do it no court can overule this seperation of church and state
i
yes
if it’s ok with him then do it no court can overule this seperation of church and state
i
yes
C
Church_Militant
Guest
John Chapter 20
[1] Now on the first day of the week Mary Mag’dalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
[2] So she ran, and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.”
[3] Peter then came out with the other disciple, and they went toward the tomb.
[4] They both ran, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first;
[5] and stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in.
[6] Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; he saw the linen cloths lying,
[7] and the napkin, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen cloths but rolled up in a place by itself.
[8] Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;
[9] for as yet they did not know the scripture, that he must rise from the dead.
[10] Then the disciples went back to their homes.
[11] But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb;
[12] and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet.
[13] They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
[14] Saying this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”
[16] Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher).
[17] Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
[18] Mary Mag’dalene went and said to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”; and she told them that he had said these things to her.
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
[24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
[25] So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.”
[26] Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, “Peace be with you.”
[27] Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.”
[28] Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
[29] Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”
[30] Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
[31] but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.
[1] Now on the first day of the week Mary Mag’dalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
[2] So she ran, and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.”
[3] Peter then came out with the other disciple, and they went toward the tomb.
[4] They both ran, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first;
[5] and stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in.
[6] Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; he saw the linen cloths lying,
[7] and the napkin, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen cloths but rolled up in a place by itself.
[8] Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;
[9] for as yet they did not know the scripture, that he must rise from the dead.
[10] Then the disciples went back to their homes.
[11] But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb;
[12] and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet.
[13] They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
[14] Saying this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”
[16] Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher).
[17] Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
[18] Mary Mag’dalene went and said to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”; and she told them that he had said these things to her.
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
[24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
[25] So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.”
[26] Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, “Peace be with you.”
[27] Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.”
[28] Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
[29] Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”
[30] Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
[31] but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.
M
maryj
Guest
vs. 1-8
John saw and believed. What led him to faith?? Did he conclude that the body could not have been stolen because robbers wouldn’t have taken the time to unwrap the body and carry away a nude, stiff corpse?
Chances are that he did deduce that the body was not stolen, but isn’t love the explanation of his faith. Love is the best road to faith. John was the disciple that Jesus loved. He welcomed and returned that love. John alone of the apostles stood at the foot of the cross. It was to John that Jesus entrusted his mother.
Later Jesus tells thomas that seeing his body in order to come to faith was not as great as believing without seeing. Don’t you think the key here is John’s love for Jesus enabled him to believe in the ressurection? In this account, the disciple who was bound closest in love to Jesus was the fastest to look for him and the first to believe in him. OOHHHH so much to learn from this!!
John saw and believed. What led him to faith?? Did he conclude that the body could not have been stolen because robbers wouldn’t have taken the time to unwrap the body and carry away a nude, stiff corpse?
Chances are that he did deduce that the body was not stolen, but isn’t love the explanation of his faith. Love is the best road to faith. John was the disciple that Jesus loved. He welcomed and returned that love. John alone of the apostles stood at the foot of the cross. It was to John that Jesus entrusted his mother.
Later Jesus tells thomas that seeing his body in order to come to faith was not as great as believing without seeing. Don’t you think the key here is John’s love for Jesus enabled him to believe in the ressurection? In this account, the disciple who was bound closest in love to Jesus was the fastest to look for him and the first to believe in him. OOHHHH so much to learn from this!!
C
Church_Militant
Guest
[11] But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb;
[12] and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet.
[13] They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
[14] Saying this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”
[16] Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher).
[17] Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
[18] Mary Mag’dalene went and said to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”; and she told them that he had said these things to her.
This is an interesting passage that raises a question that I had not really considered until just now.
Does verse 17 imply that our Lord ascended more than the once that we know the apostles record for us that they witnessed?
I don’t think I have ever heard anything from any source that would even imply such a thing. but perhaps I’ll ask my parish priest about that.
I’m thinking about this in context of Acts 1:1-9. Doctrinally, I suppose it’s irrelevant, but it is a curiosity.
[12] and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet.
[13] They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
[14] Saying this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”
[16] Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher).
[17] Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
[18] Mary Mag’dalene went and said to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”; and she told them that he had said these things to her.
This is an interesting passage that raises a question that I had not really considered until just now.
Does verse 17 imply that our Lord ascended more than the once that we know the apostles record for us that they witnessed?
I don’t think I have ever heard anything from any source that would even imply such a thing. but perhaps I’ll ask my parish priest about that.
I’m thinking about this in context of Acts 1:1-9. Doctrinally, I suppose it’s irrelevant, but it is a curiosity.
K
katy
Guest
I have always thought that he was referring to the same instance of ascension that hadn’t happened yet.
I have wondered more why he says for her not to hold him, when on the other hand he tells Thomas to touch his hands and side.
I have wondered more why he says for her not to hold him, when on the other hand he tells Thomas to touch his hands and side.
M
maryj
Guest
I was just searching This Rock catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0009fea2.aspI have always thought that he was referring to the same instance of ascension that hadn’t happened yet.
I have wondered more why he says for her not to hold him, when on the other hand he tells Thomas to touch his hands and side.
H
Huiou_Theou
Guest
All elipsis, bolding,italics in the quotes are mine, please read your own bibles to fill in any missing details
Hi CM! I have a few thoughts on this, and rather than speak my mind, as a messenger who might be bored and standing around for no reason … I think I’ll post a word picture that will perhaps stimulate some ideas.
A cubit is between 1foot5" and 1.5foot – so the ark is approximately 3’ 3/4 x 2’ 1/4 .
- Ronald notes the original Hebrew is apparently corrupt there, so his is an interpolation.
H
Huiou_Theou
Guest
Just a bit of extra info:
The LXX says
Ezel 1:11 και δυο επεκαλυπτον επανω του σωματος αυτων.
So the body, σωματ-ος, is singular and masuline which is being covered – and this body belongs in some way to the plural winged creatures αυτων.
This is different than the sentence in Ezek 1:23 – where the two wings cover τα σωματ-α (The body), which is collective. The body, whether one or more.
The LXX says
Ezel 1:11 και δυο επεκαλυπτον επανω του σωματος αυτων.
So the body, σωματ-ος, is singular and masuline which is being covered – and this body belongs in some way to the plural winged creatures αυτων.
This is different than the sentence in Ezek 1:23 – where the two wings cover τα σωματ-α (The body), which is collective. The body, whether one or more.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
This passage always speaks to me.
All my life I have heard the “doubting Thomas” comments and then when I sat down and began to really read the Bible for myself I kinda feel like he gets a bit of a bum rap.
Certainly Thomas doubted, but I can see where it is an all too human response and yet I have become a real fan of his reaction to the risen Lord. (As my signature shows.)
I think this is a great example for us all as we day by day grow in our knowledge of who it is that we have believed in and follow.
K
katy
Guest
I can only imagine how Thomas must have felt when Jesus said that to him. The Lord knew all about Thomas’ statement even tho he wasn’t visibly present when Thomas said it.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Isn’t that pretty well summed up in his reply to Jesus?
[28] Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
A
August_AWeitzel
Guest
A
August_AWeitzel
Guest
Why do you baptise then…
Our Church has chose to releive the world of baptism as a requirement in order to be save… Jesus died for all men whether thay are baptised or not, they can enjoy the eternal happiness of heaven, if they chose to by using their free will and loving the spirit of God, Jesus and the Father. Is it one or the other or do they have to show devotion to all three.
The unborn, don’t have the chance to make a choice, they now can go straight to heaven instead of to limbo. What is the Church going to do with limbo now?
Our Church has chose to releive the world of baptism as a requirement in order to be save… Jesus died for all men whether thay are baptised or not, they can enjoy the eternal happiness of heaven, if they chose to by using their free will and loving the spirit of God, Jesus and the Father. Is it one or the other or do they have to show devotion to all three.
The unborn, don’t have the chance to make a choice, they now can go straight to heaven instead of to limbo. What is the Church going to do with limbo now?
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Am I hearing you right? Are you saying your church relieved the requirement of baptism for salvation?!?!?
First of all, let’s take it to the Apologetics section, this is a Bible Study.
A
August_AWeitzel
Guest
YES!!!
C
Church_Militant
Guest
John Chapter 21
[1] After this Jesus revealed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tibe’ri-as; and he revealed himself in this way.
[2] Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathan’a-el of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zeb’edee, and two others of his disciples were together.
[3] Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will go with you.” They went out and got into the boat; but that night they caught nothing.
[4] Just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.
[5] Jesus said to them, “Children, have you any fish?” They answered him, “No.”
[6] He said to them, “Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in, for the quantity of fish.
[7] That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his clothes, for he was stripped for work, and sprang into the sea.
[8] But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, but about a hundred yards off.
[9] When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread.
[10] Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.”
[11] So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn.
[12] Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.
[13] Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish.
[14] This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.
[15] When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
[16] A second time he said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
[17] He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
[18] Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go.”
[19] (This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God.) And after this he said to him, “Follow me.”
[20] Peter turned and saw following them the disciple whom Jesus loved, who had lain close to his breast at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?”
[21] When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?”
[22] Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Follow me!”
[23] The saying spread abroad among the brethren that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”
[24] This is the disciple who is bearing witness to these things, and who has written these things; and we know that his testimony is true.
[25] But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
[1] After this Jesus revealed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tibe’ri-as; and he revealed himself in this way.
[2] Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathan’a-el of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zeb’edee, and two others of his disciples were together.
[3] Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will go with you.” They went out and got into the boat; but that night they caught nothing.
[4] Just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.
[5] Jesus said to them, “Children, have you any fish?” They answered him, “No.”
[6] He said to them, “Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in, for the quantity of fish.
[7] That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his clothes, for he was stripped for work, and sprang into the sea.
[8] But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, but about a hundred yards off.
[9] When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread.
[10] Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.”
[11] So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn.
[12] Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.
[13] Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish.
[14] This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.
[15] When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
[16] A second time he said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
[17] He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
[18] Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go.”
[19] (This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God.) And after this he said to him, “Follow me.”
[20] Peter turned and saw following them the disciple whom Jesus loved, who had lain close to his breast at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?”
[21] When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?”
[22] Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Follow me!”
[23] The saying spread abroad among the brethren that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”
[24] This is the disciple who is bearing witness to these things, and who has written these things; and we know that his testimony is true.
[25] But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
- Status