CAF poll on legalized abortion (Ireland all over again)

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OK, so what with the Ireland referendum having shaken us (or at least me) up quite a bit, let’s see how things would have turned out if the referendum had been held among CAF users.

Let’s simplify the question. So instead of phrasing it in terms of a “repeal” of some “amendment”, let’s phrase it in a straightforward manner:

If you had been allowed to vote in the Ireland referendum, would you have voted YES for legalized abortions, or NO against legalized abortions.

“I would have voted…”
  • YES, and I’m a Catholic
  • YES, and I’m not a Catholic
  • NO, and I’m a Catholic
  • NO, and I’m not a Catholic
0 voters
 
Bump. (To get some votes from the other time zones…)
 
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The decision to take innocent human life is always and everywhere a grave sin. All attempts to nuance the discussion seem to me to be misdirected.
 
Well, for some individuals and certain religions, abortion is not cut-and-dried but nuanced, just as for some individuals and certain religions, war is not cut-and-dried but nuanced, whereas for others it is black and white (no such thing as justified abortion or no such thing as a just war).

Good to see you again on the site, po18guy, so we can debate and argue! Hope you are doing well.
 
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Bump again. (To get some votes from the other time zones…)
 
po18guy said:
The decision to take innocent human life is always and everywhere a grave sin.
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In dropping an atomic bomb on a city, you will necessarily kill some innocent people. So since “The decision to take innocent human life is always and everywhere a grave sin” that means that it is always a mortal sin to drop an atomic bomb on a populated city. Further firebombing a populated city such a Dresden would also be a mortal sin under your reasoning.
 
There’s a difference between murder and war. And direct killing versus indirect killing
 
misstherese said:
There’s a difference between murder and war. And direct killing versus indirect killing
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Do you agree or disagree with the statement: “The decision to take innocent human life is always and everywhere a grave sin” ?
 
well no, but I thought it was kind of common sense what the poster meant
 
misstherese said:
it was kind of common sense what the poster meant
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Apparently you think that there is a grave and substantial difference between what was said and what was meant?
Also you bring up the idea of common sense which is a nebulous and subjective concept varying from one person to the next.
 
po18guy said:
The decision to take innocent human life is always and everywhere a grave sin
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Ah, but that’s the question! Is it a “human life”! If everyone agreed that abortion always killed a “human life” then abortion would be illegal everywhere…but people don’t agree when human life begins. Please don’t start talking about “science”–that begs the question. No one claims a fetus is not “living tissue.” But “human life” with a soul is something altogether different–and it’s not a scientific question, it’s a religious or philosophical question.
 
look, I’m not here to argue or “one up”. This is a Catholic forum, and common sense would dictate that most the responses would align with Catholic teaching. Catholic teaching indicates that war can be justified, though bombs would not be justified if used on solely innocent people. However, it is possible to indirectly kill an innocent person by use of a bomb and not know it.
 
frankly i am am glad this topic is getting quite a bit of attention on CAF

the poll is obviously overwhelmingly one way (the right way)

ireland is a poor, tiny, defenseless nation who (in a national referendum) has decided to drop all semblalnce of being a “catholic” nation

something the USA never pretended to be; yet slowly but surely USA is going “Pro-Life” unlike the lost continent of europa

as as an american whose relatives literally are “off the boat” irish

i am deeply ashamed; i know the “irish” don’t care about my opinion
 
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I’m going offline for a while. If someone could bump this thread once a day or so, that’d be great. Let’s aim for 1,000 votes 😉
 
Elf01 said:
Is a fetus an individual organism?
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It depends on what stage it’s at whether it could survive on its own. But more than that, it doesn’t have its own DNA until the original cell divides several times, and it will die if it doesn’t attach itself to the wall of the uterus (something like 80% don’t, and they die) within a few days. So it’s not as clear as some people think.
 
Targeting civilians in war is obscene and should always be condemned.
 
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