Cafeteria Catholicism

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Thank you all for allowing me to participate in this thread and giving me the opportunity to learn from all of you.

I have said all that I can think of, so I will not post anymore.

I am curious, however, as to what the original poster, John of Woking, thinks of all that has transpired…

Malia

 

[mumto5]

Les Richardson:

mumto5,
It seems to me that you are somewhat defensive, and with good reason. From what you have posted it seems that you have resigned yourself to being or at least being categorized as a “cafeteria Catholic.”

Hi Les, yes, I think you are right here. I’m resigned to the label.
The label itself doesn’t trouble me. It’s the judgement behind it that is more troubling. It’s a condemnatory label.
Les Richardson:

Let me say this, from what you have given as to your personal medical situation, there is no way to call you a cafeteria Catholic on the issue of contraception. I have both Humanae Vitae and Evangelium Vitae on my computer and have read them and I defy anyone to show me from those documents that creating life involves suicide.

I agree, no call to suicide, however, reading the Q&A section on EWTN it seems the church teaching is explicitly that NFP is the only acceptable option available to a couple, even if it has failed them in the past when strictly applied, no matter what the reason including threats to the mother’s life. I have a Catholic friend who has said as much as ‘faithful until death’. I don’t have a problem with death itself, though i can’t imagine God would give me life and want me to throw it away, but I do have a big problem with taking the risk of leaving my children without a mother. A further problem with leaving my husband on his own with the children. The church and priests and people are not going to be there at the end of the day when everything is done for the day, he is exhausted, and the house still needs some attention. (Might I also add that my husband is not Catholic and thinks this teaching is nonsense). I know what it’s like as my husband travels for work at times. It’s hard to have this many children on your own…

It’s moot point now anyway. It’s done. After 8 years of not letting it happen, I ran out of arguments and let him go ahead. That pained me but it seemed like the best thing for everyone I have a responsibility to - my husband and my children. Yes, I’ve confessed it though I don’t feel sorry at all. I told the priest that. The priest I confessed to said that there was no sin and then gave me the lightest penance I’d ever had.

So I’m doomed along with about 95% of the Catholic population (if surveys are to be believed that the NFP use among Catholics is only 1% higher than the general population). I’m out of here and in light of the sentiments here, will seriously reflect on my future in the church.

 

[Catholic_Heart]

I think it is because they believe the Church should stay out of their bedroom…and their private lives…

 

[buffalo]

Catholic Heart:

I think it is because they believe the Church should stay out of their bedroom…and their private lives…

That would be the same as saying God should stay out of their bedrooms.

 

[Penny_Plain]

mumto5:

I’m out of here and in light of the sentiments here, will seriously reflect on my future in the church.

Wait.

This is not the Church. The people here do not speak for the Church. They are not even representative of the Church.

They are loudmouths with a set of opinions, just as Alan and I are loudmouths with a different set of opinions. There are plenty of Catholics who stand apart from you waving a copy of the Catechism in one hand and the GRIM in the other and gloating in their own perfect orthodoxy.

There are plenty of other Catholics who will tell you honestly that they struggle with the Church as a divinely founded but imperfect institution and do the best they can to reconcile that flawed but beautiful institution with what they believe to be the will of God. Sometimes that means arguing with the Church. Sometimes it means ignoring the Church. Sometimes it means pointing out that, say, Cardinal Law is a big ninny who had no business running a chicken farm, much less a diocese.

We’re here, too.

Pick your friends carefully. If you decided you have to go outside the Church to find them, go and God be with you. But don’t let these guys run you out because their church has no room for any but the perfect.

 

[Penny_Plain]

Catholic Heart:

I think it is because they believe the Church should stay out of their bedroom…and their private lives…

I speak only for myself, natch.

I believe that the Church has become overly concerned with matters that do not matter in the slightest and that are none of its business, and, yes, some of those matters relate to what goes on in the bedroom.

 

[Les_Richardson]

mumto5:

So I’m doomed along with about 95% of the Catholic population (if surveys are to be believed that the NFP use among Catholics is only 1% higher than the general population). I’m out of here and in light of the sentiments here, will seriously reflect on my future in the church.

Well, I don’t think the percentage is that high, but I’ll defer to the stats. Nor do I think you are doomed.

Remember, however, there are a lot of couples out there that are not in the situation you find yourself.

Can we say that in some cases it has more to do with having or not having a boat, a newer car, a newer house? I heard of this, but I no right condemn anyone.
Can we say that in some cases it is just a severe addiction to youth culture and keeping the high-school hard-body and babies have a detrimental effect on that body? I have heard of this too.
Can we say perhaps there are those who hold an unhealthy dose of feminist philosophy that teaches essentially that child-bearing is a form of slavery to a patriarchal society, and submitting to the men-only clergy is bad enough nevermind having a large house full of children. I have heard of this too.
If there are people that think this way we might perhaps think of them as cafeteria Cathelics if for those generally selfish reasons they decide to ignore Church teaching in the reproductive area. Do you think?

All of that does beg the question of why they are still Catholics at all. That would be an interesting discussion. What is it specifically that holds them from leaving.

As for you staying or leaving, I would concur with Penny Plain. Don’t base your decision on what you read here. I know I wouldn’t. If you are already gone, well, I hope to see you back.

 

[CARose]

Mumto5,

I’m sorry you’re feeling attacked or judged. Please know that I don’t think anyone here is necessarily trying to judge you, but rather let you know what we understand to be the teachings of the church on this subject. I can appreciate that your position is one of the most difficult from which to face these teachings. Know also that only God can know for certain the state of your soul.

If you went to daily Mass this morning, you would have heard that the scripture reading was that if we fail to inform our brethren of the teachings of God and they die in sin, we will be responsible for their death. If we correct a righteous man and he is turned from error, not only will we not be guilty of his death, he will live (a high prize indeed). Scripture teaches that we are meant to admonish those who aren’t following the teachings, but we are to do so with Love.

I’m sorry for the challenge you are facing and the risks you face in pregnancy. It sounds like you’re a great mom and a respectful, thoughtful wife.

God Bless,

CARose

 

[mumto5]

Les Richardson:

Can we say that in some cases it has more to do with having or not having a boat, a newer car, a newer house?
Can we say that in some cases it is just a severe addiction to youth culture and keeping the high-school hard-body and babies have a detrimental effect on that body?
Can we say perhaps there are those who hold an unhealthy dose of feminist philosophy that teaches essentially that child-bearing is a form of slavery to a patriarchal society, and submitting to the men-only clergy is bad enough nevermind having a large house full of children. I have heard of this too.
If there are people that think this way we might perhaps think of them as cafeteria Cathelics if for those generally selfish reasons they decide to ignore Church teaching in the reproductive area. Do you think?

As for you staying or leaving, I would concur with Penny Plain. Don’t base your decision on what you read here. I know I wouldn’t. If you are already gone, well, I hope to see you back.

Yes, I know there are those who make such decisions for what I would perceive as reasons of materialism or vanity. I see that as a whole different kettle of fish. I am at peace with where I am and believe that I am there for the least selfish of reasons. I didn’t have to have more than three children. Those were the ones God specifically wished for me. I know this much as this is what I was told specifically before my third was born by an authority much higher than anyone on this earth.

Let me just be clear - I do want more children, would love more children. Each one is so unique and special. There is nothing more wonderful than seeing each personality come out and develop. If anyone has a child to adopt, I’ll do it.

As for whether to stay or leave, hypocrisy is not and never has been my style.

Thank you for your feedback and (name removed by moderator)ut but in the end what is right or wrong for me to do is between me and God and I believe I am where He wants me at this moment.

 

[Les_Richardson]

Penny Plain:

I speak only for myself, natch.

I believe that the Church has become overly concerned with matters that do not matter in the slightest and that are none of its business, and, yes, some of those matters relate to what goes on in the bedroom.

There is a clarification necessary here.

The Church wants nothing to do with your bedroom and is more than willing to stay out of there.

On the other hand, God is in your bedroom. None of us can escape that. There has been a lot of talk over the years about “freedom of conscience.” Well, that is true. You are responsible before God for what you do, including in the bedroom.

The job of the Church is first to teach what it is that God requires of us. That is how our conscience is formed. If you consistently disagree with the Church over what God requires of us, I think you owe it to yourself to do more than accept the word of a theologian or clergyman or someone in the parish who dissents from Church teaching. You would need to research the issue thoroughly, from the same sources that the Church uses (they are well foot-noted) to arrive at the doctrines in Humanae Vitae and Evangelium Vitae for example.

You see, if you decide to accept a dissenting opinion over the teaching of the Church in that area of faith and morals, you are effectively denying the infallibility doctrine in faith and morals. Perhaps that is OK with you. But bear in mind where that takes you. If the Church is wrong on this, ie. not infallible, then it could very well be wrong on many, many other doctrines.
So what criterion are you going to use to decide on those other issues? Sola Scriptura? If the Church does not hold teaching authority for you, why would you accept the teaching authority of someone who dissents from Church teaching? Because they agree with you? Confirm your life choices?
This path has been trod many times before and no doubt will be again. There are many former Catholics who have disagreed on a doctrine that has been given for the faithful to believe and have followed that disagreement to its rational conclusion and left. I believe they were at least being consistent. That is why I am curious about dissenters who stay. How do they rationalize it when their very dissent undermines all the other doctrines they wish to keep?
That has been the fundamental contradiction of Protestantism since Luther.

But back to the bedroom. The Church does not police your bedroom. You are on your own. If you are doing what is contrary to Church teaching, ie. the teaching of Christ through the Church, the Church will never know about it unless you confess it. But if you confess it, you have already accepted the teaching, and if you want absolution you must make a firm resolve not to repeat it.

If you believe that you are not in mortal sin, then by all means go ahead and receive communion. The Church knows nothing about what goes on in your bedroom and will give you communion in good faith, based on your conscience. God alone knows what the truth is. The only exception is if you are in an ongoing ***public ***state of mortal sin, well known to priest and people alike, then communion might be refused.

Other than that, the Church can only inform your conscience, tell you the truth. From there, you are responsible for what you know.

Now, if you think that God should just butt out of certain areas of your life then we are talking about a more fundamental dissent, a dissent from Christianity altogether.

 

[Les_Richardson]

mumto5:

Yes, I know there are those who make such decisions for what I would perceive as reasons of materialism or vanity. I see that as a whole different kettle of fish. I am at peace with where I am and believe that I am there for the least selfish of reasons. I didn’t have to have more than three children. Those were the ones God specifically wished for me. I know this much as this is what I was told specifically before my third was born by an authority much higher than anyone on this earth.

Let me just be clear - I do want more children, would love more children. Each one is so unique and special. There is nothing more wonderful than seeing each personality come out and develop. If anyone has a child to adopt, I’ll do it.

As for whether to stay or leave, hypocrisy is not and never has been my style.

I understand perfectly, and I wasn’t critiquing you at all, just making the point that there is a reason for the term “cafeteria Catholic” even though I think it has been overused, and used as a hammer against people we know nothing about. That’s why I speak in hypotheticals.

Thank you for your feedback and (name removed by moderator)ut but in the end what is right or wrong for me to do is between me and God and I believe I am where He wants me at this moment.

Amen to that. I said the same thing just now in another post.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Penny Plain:

Pick your friends carefully. If you decided you have to go outside the Church to find them, go and God be with you. But don’t let these guys run you out because their church has no room for any but the perfect.

Then again, when contact with the Church implies an inkling of being judged, condemned, and not worthy by Those Who Suck Up to authority, and especially when we have the pope (allegedly, I’m not convinced that certain “orthodox” aren’t picking and choosing his words to their agenda) talking about a leaner, more faithful Church and, at the risk of being banned, I might as well add one more. Mind you, I totally appreciate these forums but when they were down for several days I read some of Karl’s e-letters, and either he is using satire (the one time I heard him on the radio he showed a good sense of humor so I don’t know him that well) or he is also on the “shape up or ship out” bandwagon from my fallible interpretation of his recent E-letter on whether the Church should get smaller.

At what point does one wonder whether this really is the Church that Christ founded? The clear zeal for judgment of high ranking and wannabe Catholics is so ubiquitous that sometimes I’m not sure the Church has any idea what she’s allowing her own people to do to her. I don’t know what all the defensiveness about doctrine is anyway; it’s not like a popular vote is going to chance it, is it?

Is the Church’s purpose to make it as unbearable as possible for wannabe Christians so she can test them to perfection, or is it more like we simply refuse to obey pretty much anything in the sermon of the mount of other teachings of Jesus, substituting our human notions instead and finding the one or two places where Jesus became upset and using it as Carte Blanche to criticize and condemn without limit?

As I continue to ponder what I call myself, and seeing as I never quite reached the point of Full Mental Assent, I am trying out a new way of presenting myself. Maybe I don’t want to be called Catholic without careful reservation, not because I’m embarrassed to be associated with people who sin and dissent, but I’m embarrassed to be associated with judgmental, intolerant, angry, anxiety-filled rabid Catholics (present company excepted of course) who actually build the ugly characatures that non-Catholics have of the Church. The fact we have different teachings is just fuel, but not the trigger. The attitude that we equate the Church with God Himself is idolatry, and yet we claim that “the Church” in our bedroom is the same as “God” in our bedroom.

I’m sorry but if the Church is exemplified by her Full Mental Assent crowd, then I wish not wear that label around strangers until after they already get to know me and consider me a friend. For the moment, I’ve updated my profile yet again to “Call me whatever you want.” I am convinced that whether or not I wear a label that says Catholic is nearly as important as how convincingly loving I am to others, in terms of how well I can help the Lord call them.

Alan

 

[Les_Richardson]

AlanFromWichita:

Then again, when contact with the Church implies an inkling of being judged, condemned, and not worthy by Those Who Suck Up to authority, and especially when we have the pope (allegedly, I’m not convinced that certain “orthodox” aren’t picking and choosing his words to their agenda) talking about a leaner, more faithful Church and, at the risk of being banned, I might as well add one more. Mind you, I totally appreciate these forums but when they were down for several days I read some of Karl’s e-letters, and either he is using satire (the one time I heard him on the radio he showed a good sense of humor so I don’t know him that well) or he is also on the “shape up or ship out” bandwagon from my fallible interpretation of his recent E-letter on whether the Church should get smaller.

At what point does one wonder whether this really is the Church that Christ founded? The clear zeal for judgment of high ranking and wannabe Catholics is so ubiquitous that sometimes I’m not sure the Church has any idea what she’s allowing her own people to do to her. I don’t know what all the defensiveness about doctrine is anyway; it’s not like a popular vote is going to chance it, is it?

Is the Church’s purpose to make it as unbearable as possible for wannabe Christians so she can test them to perfection, or is it more like we simply refuse to obey pretty much anything in the sermon of the mount of other teachings of Jesus, substituting our human notions instead and finding the one or two places where Jesus became upset and using it as Carte Blanche to criticize and condemn without limit?

As I continue to ponder what I call myself, and seeing as I never quite reached the point of Full Mental Assent, I am trying out a new way of presenting myself. Maybe I don’t want to be called Catholic without careful reservation, not because I’m embarrassed to be associated with people who sin and dissent, but I’m embarrassed to be associated with judgmental, intolerant, angry, anxiety-filled rabid Catholics (present company excepted of course) who actually build the ugly characatures that non-Catholics have of the Church. The fact we have different teachings is just fuel, but not the trigger. The attitude that we equate the Church with God Himself is idolatry, and yet we claim that “the Church” in our bedroom is the same as “God” in our bedroom.

I’m sorry but if the Church is exemplified by her Full Mental Assent crowd, then I wish not wear that label around strangers until after they already get to know me and consider me a friend. For the moment, I’ve updated my profile yet again to “Call me whatever you want.” I am convinced that whether or not I wear a label that says Catholic is nearly as important as how convincingly loving I am to others, in terms of how well I can help the Lord call them.

Alan

Call it the home of backlash.

You have to remember too that this is a forum for discussion. If we didn’t give a rat’s rear end we likely wouldn’t be here, wannabes like me, or "call me whatever you want"s like yourself.

I guess there has to be someplace to go for people who don’t want to see the Church race to keep up with the culture as it flushes itself.

 

[LittleDeb]

Wow! It took me an hour to read this thread. Now my brain is squishy.

I remember how hard it was when I wasn’t in full union with Church teachings. I was in so much pain. At the time I thought the pain was caused by guilt or conflict caused by others. It took so many years to get to this point.

You’ve all seen me in your parish. I’m the one who always looked familiar but you couldn’t quite place. me. I’m that one who seemed to know lots of people but you were never quite sure where I stood. Was I a “true Catholic” or was I just grabbing my individual items to place on my tray? The other important question, did it matter to anyone what I was?

If no one knew what I was up to then how could I be wrong? I wanted so many of the teachings not to be true. I thought it would be so much easier on me if they weren’t. That 2x4 in my eye hit people when I turned around too fast. I always thought I was doing the best I could with what I had. Why did other people have to judge what was right for me? Couldn’t I know what was right just for me? Couldn’t God just tell me what I needed to do?

Finally I found out He was telling me. The book “Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence” was the final step to full union with The Church.

Yep I’m a sinner. I’m not proud of it but it is the one thing that I know I choose to do. Yep, I nearly died too. Contraception almost killed me, literally. I’m here because that is where I am supposed to be. If God says it is my time to join Him then I will go. But you will never catch me near contraception again. Church teaching saved my life, physically and spiritually. How can that be of anything other than God?

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Little Deb, thank you for your post. The conversion process is an interesting one.

As I said, I too had a teaching or so that I thumbed my nose at before coming to my senses. I looked my confessor right in the eyes when I told him that I just spent the last decade or so blatantly disobeying a teaching because it was not convenient to obey it.

Before you can be honest with a confessor, we have to be honest with ourselves, and it truly does involve - as the title of that books suggests: Surrender.

 

[mumto5]

LittleDeb:

Yep, I nearly died too. Contraception almost killed me, literally. I’m here because that is where I am supposed to be. If God says it is my time to join Him then I will go. But you will never catch me near contraception again. Church teaching saved my life, physically and spiritually. How can that be of anything other than God?

Dying because you choose a certain medical intervention is quite a different kettle of fish than dying because of a teaching imposed on you by an authority that won’t be there to help your family when you are gone. It’s like comparing the circumstances between an abortion and a miscarriage - you simply can’t. Everyone knows there are risks associated with certain medications and you should have been informed of the risks. If you weren’t, it would have been easy to find them out for yourself if you even went as far as reading the packet insert. Condoms won’t kill you, nor will they result in abortions like hormonal medications could. I think it is unfair to equate your nearly dying from a risk you should/could have known about and chose to take with my own nearly dying from a situation that couldn’t be anticipated and could occur again. You’ll never go near birth control again. Good for you. I’ll never risk having another baby again, as far as I can help it, for the sake of my family.

I sure hope that all of you never find yourself in the position where you have to choose between a teaching that you’ve tried to understand and just can’t make sense of, and what is best for your children and husband. You might find the idealism and situation isn’t quite as black and white as you think.

In the same way you judge others, you will be judged. Some people better be worried as they are going to have some pretty high standards to measure up to.

 

[mumto5]

And that, btw, is all I have to say on this topic anymore. So you won’t be hearing from me again.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Les Richardson:

Call it the home of backlash.

You have to remember too that this is a forum for discussion. If we didn’t give a rat’s rear end we likely wouldn’t be here, wannabes like me, or "call me whatever you want"s like yourself.

I guess there has to be someplace to go for people who don’t want to see the Church race to keep up with the culture as it flushes itself.

Thanks for noticing. I just put up the “Call me whatever you want” today.

Every day I feel stronger in my Catholicism, but I have found that calling myself Catholic does offend other Catholics who think they are “more Catholic” than I am.

Therefore I consider myself Catholic, but others can say whatever they want. Other than the possible appearance of “bad attitude” I wanted people to know that I am most interesting in what they personally believe about life and love, and find that more interesting than whether they are able to outdo each other or myself on a Church teaching.

Actually, with some help from others on this forum – not counting those who argue over what label I am worthy of calling myself – I have learned a great deal and come closer to some of the teachings. For example, a couple days ago I had some ideas about contraception and elective sterilization that would have blown the socks off some people, and supported the Church. Through my own weakness, though, I tend to take the bait and respond first to those who want to throw me overboard, so they never had the benefit of hearing my ideas. They probably wouldn’t listen anyway because they seem to be more concerned with judging the messenger with the message. It got so discouraging having to defend myself from my own brothers, that I don’t even care to share anymore, especially since it doesn’t apply to me.

Therefore, the more I come closer to Catholic teachings, the more I also pity the Church for so many of her most zealous advocate paint such an ugly face on God’s truth by proclaiming it, as far as I know to the letter, through an angry judgmental mask that it’s almost impossible to hear anything that sounds remotely compelling to the average person. Since I tried very hard to listen through their anger and judgment and listen for the truth, as with the pharisees, I have actually learned a lot and I owe them a debt for that. They judge me as being obstinate because I question their logic. Their judgments work only against themselves and the Church they would defend.

There is one teaching in particular, though, that the efforts of the orthodox to “call” me to believe has had an extreme countereffect, and may have nearly permanently vaccinated me against believing, and that is the claim that the pope is unable to err in any particular circumstances. There are so many reasons that doesn’t make sense, and not a good one yet from the apologists – and so many counterexamples that thoe who proclaim the truth actually understand the Good News, that I am more adamant than ever about giving my mind over to whatever others say the Church says that God infallibly says. Too many intermediates. If that makes me non-Catholic in others’ eyes than so be it. Therefore they can call me what they want. I still want to hear their story and if they want to hear mine I’ll tell them.

Alan

 

[Penny_Plain]

AlanFromWichita:

There is one teaching in particular, though, that the efforts of the orthodox to “call” me to believe has had an extreme countereffect, and may have nearly permanently vaccinated me against believing, and that is the claim that the pope is unable to err in any particular circumstances.

Alan, I think you’ve misunderstood the position here, even though you’re a really smart guy.

The position is the Pope is unable to err in any circumstances except those pertaining to criminal justice and foreign policy.

Yours in loving fraternal correction,

Penny.

 

[Les_Richardson]

AlanFromWichita:

…but I have found that calling myself Catholic does offend other Catholics who think they are “more Catholic” than I am…and find that more interesting than whether they are able to outdo each other or myself on a Church teaching.

You know, what you say may be true with regard some Catholics. I’m not sure that is what is going on here although it may appear that way. Sometimes it is a question of discussing a doctrine just to expand on what it means. Maybe I’m missing some history here (on another thread perhaps), but I don’t see the defining of doctrine as judgementalism unless it is applied directly to someone in condemnation. As I said before, the term Cafeteria Catholic has some basis in fact, but it has been routinely used, abused and misapplied in my opinion, so that some people just react, and that as you indicate, cuts off discussion.

Through my own weakness, though, I tend to take the bait and respond first to those who want to throw me overboard, so they never had the benefit of hearing my ideas. They probably wouldn’t listen anyway because they seem to be more concerned with judging the messenger with the message. It got so discouraging having to defend myself from my own brothers, that I don’t even care to share anymore, especially since it doesn’t apply to me.

The Pope’s suggestion, actually before he became Pope, that the Church may wind up leaner and more Orthodox, was not a green light for the “orthodox” to run everyone else out on a rail, tempting as that thought might be. Attrition itself will account for a certain amount of shrinkage, if you look at the average age in a lot of parishes. From his perspective I think Benedict XVI is more concerned that the episcopate and the clergy be on the same page doctrinally. The rest will fall into place naturally. And, for the record, I don’t want to throw you overboard, or anyone else for that matter.

Therefore, the more I come closer to Catholic teachings, the more I also pity the Church for so many of her most zealous advocate paint such an ugly face on God’s truth by proclaiming it, as far as I know to the letter, through an angry judgmental mask that it’s almost impossible to hear anything that sounds remotely compelling to the average person.

Who is this average person? If you mean a non-Christian in the cultural mainstream, I think it is futile to try to draw some sort of synthesis to present Catholic teaching, particularly in the area that dominates this thread, sexual mores and life issues. The culture and the Catholic Church are so far apart on this that I think the bridge is better built elsewhere. IMHO.

Since I tried very hard to listen through their anger and judgment and listen for the truth, as with the pharisees, I have actually learned a lot and I owe them a debt for that. They judge me as being obstinate because I question their logic. Their judgments work only against themselves and the Church they would defend.

I know the air is good up there on the moral high-ground but shouldn’t we try to make some allowances for people who have had to suffer through 30+ years of doctrinal ground-shifting only to discover that the magesterium at the top had not changed doctrine at all? Somewhere in between they were sold a bill of goods. That would tend to tick them off, I would think. I think that is why there is orthodox and there is inflexible orthodox. But somewhere in all of this there is the real teaching of the Church, and it is accessible to all.

…and that is the claim that the pope is unable to err in any particular circumstances.

Penny Plain:

The position is the Pope is unable to err in any circumstances except those pertaining to criminal justice and foreign policy.

I for one am thankful that neither of those statements corresponds to Church doctrine on infallibility. I’m not sure who it is that is teaching such things but they are not Church teaching.
You’re right Alan, such a position wouldn’t make any sense, particularly if you read Church history and learn about some of the rogues that have been Popes.