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Valke2
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I’m still waiting to meet someone who knows the full truth.
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savienu
Guest
JustAnotherThou, thank you for that. I have also been a cafeteria Catholic in the past in that regard, for not getting any support and education in the Catholic faith (despite 14 years of Catholic schooling!) For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t consider someone in that situation a “Cafeteria Catholic” persay, just underinformed and gravely sinned against. I do try and reach out to the Cafeteria Catholics of the world, but some just don’t want to be reached (it’s like that with many people, I suppose, not just Catholics.)
They are all in my prayers. My wish is for everyone to be in Heaven with our Father.
They are all in my prayers. My wish is for everyone to be in Heaven with our Father.
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Brendan
Guest
I have.
His name is Jesus Christ and I meet Him each week in the Eucharist.
He speaks through the Chruch He founded which has the Fullness of Truth.
The members of the His Church, therefore have, in their possession, the entiretly of Truth.
It’s too bad that some reject the Truth offered to them.
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sanctamaria17
Guest
Not to mention that there are many Catholics who TRY to understand the Church’s teachings and can’t yet come to terms with them.
I’m in college and I have many friends, Catholic and non Catholic. My Catholic friends are not only practicing, but they are very into their faith. They not only attend Mass every week, they are active participants and will even make time to go to daily Mass once a week.
However, some of these friends have a hard time coming to terms with some of the Church’s teachings (mainly on sexuality, but some other issues as well). It’s really frustrating for them because they want to do God’s will but they can’t come to terms with these teachings. Some of them are converts so they are still somewhat new to the faith while others have been raised Catholic and either kept practicing but also faced adult issues for the first time or fell away for awhile and then came back. It’s hard for them and they want to understand but for whatever reason, they can’t. They all need our prayers.
I’m in college and I have many friends, Catholic and non Catholic. My Catholic friends are not only practicing, but they are very into their faith. They not only attend Mass every week, they are active participants and will even make time to go to daily Mass once a week.
However, some of these friends have a hard time coming to terms with some of the Church’s teachings (mainly on sexuality, but some other issues as well). It’s really frustrating for them because they want to do God’s will but they can’t come to terms with these teachings. Some of them are converts so they are still somewhat new to the faith while others have been raised Catholic and either kept practicing but also faced adult issues for the first time or fell away for awhile and then came back. It’s hard for them and they want to understand but for whatever reason, they can’t. They all need our prayers.
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Brendan
Guest
There is a decided difference between not being able to comprehend the reasons for a teaching and actively rejecting the teachings.
Remember, God is an infinite being. We cannot fully comprehend Him, yet we are to always obey Him and His commands.
If we do not understand something, even if we try, we must have the humility to accept that our reason has it’s limits. The alternative is to consider one’s own reason and opinion to be greater than that to who Christ entrusted His Church, not to mention the miriad of great theologians who have preceded us. To do that really reeks of pride.
It is one thing to recognize that one does not understand, but seeks to obey anyway.
It would be another to claim that one has a greater understanding of faith and morals than the Church itself.
So if these people you mention seek understanding combinded with obedience, like we all are called to do, they are on the right track
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dmelosi
Guest
The term cafeteria catholic to me means that it is someone who is just going through the motions in their spiritual journey.
I don’t think the op was trying to judge, but just to say that it is better for a person to do the best they can in their spiritual journey rather than to take the spiritual side for granted.
I don’t think the op was trying to judge, but just to say that it is better for a person to do the best they can in their spiritual journey rather than to take the spiritual side for granted.
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Norseman82
Guest
Agreed. There is a difference between “non comprehendo” (I don’t understand) and “non serviam” (I will not serve/obey).
I think the term “cafeteria Catholics” apply to those who know the Church’s teachings and think they are free to choose what to follow and not to follow - and many times they are seeking to justify something that they know is wrong (like knowingly refusing to follow the Church’s marriage laws, or being pro-abortion when one knows better).
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Nordar
Guest
I did not see where the OP was saying he thinks he is better than Cafeteria Catholics. He was quite simply stating the truth, I did not see him advocating to admonish anyone in anger, he was just making an observation.It is an act of mercy to admonish the sinner, but it is a grave matter to think God - through his grace - has made you better than the “Cafeteria Catholics” whose religion is more cultural than real. Admonish them in love, not in anger.
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Nordar
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Swan
Guest
With all due respect, what the term means to you and what it might mean to others, especially those who fall into that category, such as myself, is irrelevant. I do not mean to be rude or uncharitiable and I am not attacking you personally, but on this Palm Sunday I do feel the need to comment on the ubiquitos attitude of judgement I see on this board. I have lost count of the posts I have seen that start out with “I’m not judging you…” and then directly proceed to do so. I think it would be a bit more Christian if folks worried about their own spiritiual journey instead of sitting in judgement on the journeys of others - espeically since it is impossible to know another person’s sincerity regardless of what you think you can read into their behavior. I am almost 50 years old and have been through many experiences in that time. You cannot presume to know me, my relationship with God, or my place on my spiritual path any more than I can presume to know yours. The difference being, I am not trying to second guess your motives or your sincerity while you and folks like you seemt to have no problem imposing your assumptions on others. Do you have any idea how your word wound others? The negative impact they can have on those seeking God? The reason sinners responded to Jesus is that they could feel his unconditional love for them. He reserved his harsh judgement for the self-righteous. This holier-than-thou attitude is the type of behavior that Jesus warned us about, yet those who seem to think themselves the closest to him are the ones who most consistently violate this teaching. As we enter into Holy Week, can’t we at least make an attempt to stop this sort of belittlement of others? Why is there a constant need on the part of some to point out the failings of others? Please, in Jesus’s name, give us the freedom to pursue our path with God, if not with your blessing, at least without your condemnation.
Dear Lord, please give us the grace to see each other as you see us and to treat each other with love.
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rick43235
Guest
With all due respect, what the term means to you and what it might mean to others, especially those who fall into that category, such as myself, is irrelevant. I do not mean to be rude or uncharitiable and I am not attacking you personally, but on this Palm Sunday I do feel the need to comment on the ubiquitos attitude of judgement I see on this board. I have lost count of the posts I have seen that start out with “I’m not judging you…” and then directly proceed to do so. I think it would be a bit more Christian if folks worried about their own spiritiual journey instead of sitting in judgement on the journeys of others - espeically since it is impossible to know another person’s sincerity regardless of what you think you can read into their behavior. I am almost 50 years old and have been through many experiences in that time. You cannot presume to know me, my relationship with God, or my place on my spiritual path any more than I can presume to know yours. The difference being, I am not trying to second guess your motives or your sincerity while you and folks like you seemt to have no problem imposing your assumptions on others. Do you have any idea how your word wound others? The negative impact they can have on those seeking God? The reason sinners responded to Jesus is that they could feel his unconditional love for them. He reserved his harsh judgement for the self-righteous. This holier-than-thou attitude is the type of behavior that Jesus warned us about, yet those who seem to think themselves the closest to him are the ones who most consistently violate this teaching. As we enter into Holy Week, can’t we at least make an attempt to stop this sort of belittlement of others? Why is there a constant need on the part of some to point out the failings of others? Please, in Jesus’s name, give us the freedom to pursue our path with God, if not with your blessing, at least without your condemnation.
Dear Lord, please give us the grace to see each other as you see us and to treat each other with love.
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JonW
Guest
“The difference being, I am not trying to second guess your motives or your sincerity while you and folks like you seemt to have no problem imposing your assumptions on others.”
“This holier-than-thou attitude is the type of behavior that Jesus warned us about, yet those who seem to think themselves the closest to him are the ones who most consistently violate this teaching.”
Irony, anyone?
Can we please just try to be more careful in distinguishing between judgemental attitudes and gently reminding our beloved brothers and sisters of all of our place in the Body of Christ?
God Bless
Jon
“This holier-than-thou attitude is the type of behavior that Jesus warned us about, yet those who seem to think themselves the closest to him are the ones who most consistently violate this teaching.”
Irony, anyone?
Can we please just try to be more careful in distinguishing between judgemental attitudes and gently reminding our beloved brothers and sisters of all of our place in the Body of Christ?
God Bless
Jon
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savienu
Guest
It’s a spiritual work of mercy to admonish the sinner…
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dprewett
Guest
Political correctness is destroying this country (USA). Why is it that any time someone voices a real problem they are taking part in hate speach, or even worse hurting someones feelings. I do not believe that anyone on this thread is saying they are better than anyone else just stating a real problem. Maby if these things are brought to light then with the help of the holy spirit we cann begin to fix the problem instead of covering over it. This I believe to be the real sin.
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Brendan
Guest
I have yet to see a person judged in this thread. I have seen actions and philosophies judged, but actions are not people. I have yet to meet an action with a soul or a personal worldview that was created in the likeness and image of God.
So judging actions is not judging people.
A Christian Community is just that, a community. We are to assist each other on our spiritual journeys. That is precisely why the reproachment of sinner is a act of MERCY.
And what does ‘sincerity’ have to do with much of anything. The Pharisees were sincere in their beliefes. It is quite possible to be sincere and wrong at the same time.
if the words are True, they can only lead to God. A great example is when Christ called the Pharisees “Vipers” and “Whitewashed tombs”. By definition, those words were meant to encourage them to seek God.
That is always a good starting point. But Christ unconditionally loved the Pharisees too, yet used harsh words. Harsh words and not contrary to unconditional love, in many cases, unconditional love DEMANDS harsh words.
Exactly, so how do you think He feels about those who place themselves above His Church. He was all about meek submission, not arrogance defiance. Read Matthew 23: 1-3
He charged His disciples to obey even the Pharisees, for they have the authority given by God, even if they abused it.
We are in a MUCH better place now, for no one can charge +Benedict with not practicing what he preaches. So we can follow the See of Peter in all things.
Amen, and help us to seek the true meaning of love and bring our brothers deeper into Communion with You and Your Church.
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Swan
Guest
Perhaps it all depends on how you go about it.
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mschrank
Guest
I agree with the person who made the distinction between “I don’t understand” (imho, they fall into the same category as Muslims and other non-Christians) and “I will not serve”. It’s the latter my tirade is aimed at. If you don’t understand, then how could you be to blame?Perhaps it all depends on how you go about it.
The biggest problem in the Church is not the ignorance of those who really do not care, it’s the people who fancy themselves as too intelligent, or those who think themselves too enlightened. These are the dissident types.
In terms of how you go about it, well, I just want to force people into the choice between doing what the Church says, and rejecting the Church. I do believe that most people if they thought about it it rationally would change their ways.
I’m not judging anyone in particular, you know who you are. If you’re not doing anything wrong, then your conscience is clear and there’s no reason to freak out.
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Swan
Guest
The above is an excellent example of what I mean in my earlier post. This person is assuming a great deal, are they not? This is not a gentle reminder to sinners, it is a blanket condemnation of a group of people this poster doesn’t know anything about except that they are not in the same place on the spiritual path as he/she at this time. I am doing my best and resent that a total stranger should presume to know otherwise and I am positive I am not the only one who finds this type of statement un-Christian.
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leonie
Guest
Most Catholics who disagree are just badly catechized. Some have deep childhood wounds, habitual sins that seem insurmountable, or other impediments.
Even then, obedience is not a virtue cultivated, trained, encouraged, or elevated in American culture.
I’m so grateful to be Catholic. What a great gift that I **did nothing **to merit. I trully believe that without the prayers of others, I would have been lost in spite of my Catholic baptism.
It’s true!!! We have been given much. We must give back much!!!
What makes me sad is the lukewarm Catholic. I don’t think anyone on this message board can be defined in this category. I don’t know how to help the lukewarm. I think it’s the work of the Holy Spirit.
I have a brother who has many wonderful natural virtues. He’s so kind, talented, educated, loving, but not at all interested in God.
I don’t understand it all. My sister with all her many troubles, personality quirks, and lack of success has a greater hunger for God than my brother.
Even then, obedience is not a virtue cultivated, trained, encouraged, or elevated in American culture.
I’m so grateful to be Catholic. What a great gift that I **did nothing **to merit. I trully believe that without the prayers of others, I would have been lost in spite of my Catholic baptism.
It’s true!!! We have been given much. We must give back much!!!
What makes me sad is the lukewarm Catholic. I don’t think anyone on this message board can be defined in this category. I don’t know how to help the lukewarm. I think it’s the work of the Holy Spirit.
I have a brother who has many wonderful natural virtues. He’s so kind, talented, educated, loving, but not at all interested in God.
I don’t understand it all. My sister with all her many troubles, personality quirks, and lack of success has a greater hunger for God than my brother.
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mschrank
Guest
“I’m not judging anyone in particular, you know who you are. If you’re not doing anything wrong, then your conscience is clear and there’s no reason to freak out.”The above is an excellent example of what I mean in my earlier post. This person is assuming a great deal, are they not? This is not a gentle reminder to sinners, it is a blanket condemnation of a group of people this poster doesn’t know anything about except that they are not in the same place on the spiritual path as he/she at this time. I am doing my best and resent that a total stranger should presume to know otherwise and I am positive I am not the only one who finds this type of statement un-Christian.
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