Caffeine question

[BJ_Colbert]

blueadept:

During Lent I gave up caffeine in coffee and sodas, and I’ve been happy not having the jitters so I’m still doing that. My wife is surprised since I’m not LDS and she is.

My question is how does the LDS view de-caf coffee as far as the Word of Wisdom? I can relate to the health issues of caffeine, but I get the idea that any form of coffee is considered a no-no for Mormons.

My personal belief is that it is up to the individual as to how they interpret some things. The whole point is to be aware of health issues. If I drink a coca cola with all the caffeine, I get the jitters and am up all night going to the bathroom. When I cut out caffeine I slept all night and have no jitters. My husband is addicted to one Cappucino per day and he asked if he joined the Mormon Church could he still have his Cappucino and our home teacher told him if he drank decaf it would be OK.
Now, I think some LDS would be more strict, as I have heard it said that any substitution such as near beer is not a good thing.
I think the whole thing is use moderation with all things and stay away from things we know are addicting. These are things which have Tobacco, alcohol and caffeine in them.
I personally drink an occasional diet pepsi or coke when out in a restaurant because they do not usually have sugar free, caffeine free drinks. When I purchase drinks for home use, I always make sure they are caffeine free. My husband is a stickler, recently to make sure they are aspertame free also.(because aspertame effects the nerves and he is paralyzed on the right side with night leg shakes) We are given free agency to choose and determine for ourselves what we feel is right, as long as we avoid those main things that are addicting. BJ

 

[TOmNossor]

blueadept:

During Lent I gave up caffeine in coffee and sodas, and I’ve been happy not having the jitters so I’m still doing that. My wife is surprised since I’m not LDS and she is.

My question is how does the LDS view de-caf coffee as far as the Word of Wisdom? I can relate to the health issues of caffeine, but I get the idea that any form of coffee is considered a no-no for Mormons.

First, all revelations from God are spiritual. There are temporal benefits to the Word of Wisdom, but the spiritual benefits outweight the temporal.
Ezra Taft Benson:

I have always felt, however, that the greater blessing of obedience to the Word of Wisdom and all other commandments is spiritual.

AND

… I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual.

Second, the Word of Wisdom in my opinion is about agency. Today I choose not to smoke. I could have chosen to smoke just as easily as I choose to not smoke. But many folks who choose to smoke find themselves almost unable to choose not to smoke. They have lost a part of their agency. Jesus Christ is the solution to regaining this agency, but the WOW helps us in some things so that we do not put down our agency in the beginning.

And lastly, the WOW has been defined throughout the history of the church. I embrace a fairly minimalist definition. No coffee. No tea (but herbal tea is ok). No alcohol. No tobacco introduced to the body.

Concerning decaffeinated coffee: If I had stewardship for someone (IIHSFS), I would suggest that decaffeinated coffee is not an exception to the no coffee as I have never seen this suggested and I have seen it suggested that decaffeinated coffee should not be drank.

Concerning caffeinated sodas: IIHSFS I would suggest this is a purely personal.

However, the WOW is generally between a person and the Lord. If they do not think they should consume caffeinated sodas, they should not. If they feel some things are ok, they may very well be ok. The Bishop may help with authority and anyone with stewardship may help with POSSIBLE inspiration. The WOW is clear enough for almost all LDS, but it is not a line by line health code.

The other thing we should remember about the WOW. It also included positive statements. Some things are good for us.

And one of the most amazing things about the WOW is the reference to “conspiring men.”

Charity, TOm

Some interesting observations have been made about tanic acid in coffee and tea (also in decaffeinated coffee), but these are merely thinking LDS trying to explain something. I would suggest they are of individual value to LDS who find them of individual value, but these same folks must remember that the WOW at its heart is a spiritual concept.

 

[flameburns623]

Twiztedseraph:

So if all you have to avoid is alcohol, coffee, tea and tobacco, what about coca-cola?

Gryskull:

So is avoiding caffeinated drinks a discipline or a doctrine? Coz it seems to me like it is a doctrine. I could understand your members being lax on this matter if it were a discipline. But if it were a doctrine don’t you think that this rule cannot be bent. That means no chocolate, coke or anything that has caffeine. Even sprite…coz some people think sprite doesn’t have caffeine because it is clear in color.

blueadept:

During Lent I gave up caffeine in coffee and sodas, and I’ve been happy not having the jitters so I’m still doing that. My wife is surprised since I’m not LDS and she is.

My question is how does the LDS view de-caf coffee as far as the Word of Wisdom? I can relate to the health issues of caffeine, but I get the idea that any form of coffee is considered a no-no for Mormons.

The Word of Wisdom is NOT about the avoidance of caffeine. Some Mormons, especially in the 1970’s and 1980’s, began ASSUMING that caffeine was the reason that coffee and tea were off-limits. For that reason they began avoiding all caffeinated beverages. This is also partly linked to how contemporary LDS General Authorities view the Word of Wisdom and addiction (see below). By the way–Sprite does NOT contain caffeine (except for a new brand-extension variant which was tried out in a few test markets and which I seldom see on the shelves) and many Mormons who avoided caffeine drink it. Neither do 7-Up, Ginger Ale, or Root beer. Mountan Dew, on the other had does have caffeine. It can be consumed by LDS but many would avoid it even today because of how they understand the Word of Wisdom.

The Word of Wisdom specified ‘hot drinks’, a colloquial expression widely used to describe coffee and tea. Joseph Smith clarified that in fact this WAS what was intended; nonetheless I am told that some strict Mormons in the mid-1800’s avoided even herbal teas and soups. It is also vital to remember that the Word of Wisdom was originally given as ADVICE (could someone cut-and-paste the whole revelation for folks to see it?). Only in the early 1900’s did the leadership of the LDS Church begin to treat the Word of Wisdom as a comandment and required adherence to it as a pre-requisite for temple recommends

The official doctrine is that ALL coffee-caffeinated or otherwise–and ALL tea–likewise without respect to whether it is caffeinated or not–are off limits. However 'grain beverages (such as Postum) and herbal teas are acceptable. The biggest thrust of the contemporary LDS leadership is that no one should allow themselves to develop a dependency upon any foreign substance not otherwise medically or nutritionally necessary. So a dependency upon chamomile tea would be a de facto violation of the Word of Wisdom in an individual case, even though chamomile tea is an herbal beverage not generally forbidden to Mormons.

Since caffeine addiction is pre-eminent in Western societies, this is part of the reason that so many Mormons ‘broaden’ the Word of Wisdom to include ALL caffeinated beverages. On the other hand–die-hard Mormon caffeine fiends are often quite minimalistic in their interpretation of the Word of Wisdom, so that you’ll find one LDS person who guzzles more Mountain Dew Code Red than they consume oxygen while another will refuse even to consume hot chocolate. Most Mormons fall somewhere between these extremes of course. Just as Catholics will sometimes minimize and sometimes over-emphasize certain rules of the Catholic Church depending upon their own piety.

.

 

[blueadept]

Thank you Tom & Flameburns,

That neatly summarizes the “caffeine issue” and the purpose of the WOW. Thanks for the info and clarification.

 

[Casen]

As requested, here is the entire revelation:

1 A WORD OF WISDOM, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 89)

 

[iwonder]

flameburns623:

The Word of Wisdom is NOT about the avoidance of caffeine. Some Mormons, especially in the 1970’s and 1980’s, began ASSUMING that caffeine was the reason that coffee and tea were off-limits. For that reason they began avoiding all caffeinated beverages. This is also partly linked to how contemporary LDS General Authorities view the Word of Wisdom and addiction (see below). By the way–Sprite does NOT contain caffeine (except for a new brand-extension variant which was tried out in a few test markets and which I seldom see on the shelves) and many Mormons who avoided caffeine drink it. Neither do 7-Up, Ginger Ale, or Root beer. Mountan Dew, on the other had does have caffeine. It can be consumed by LDS but many would avoid it even today because of how they understand the Word of Wisdom.

The Word of Wisdom specified ‘hot drinks’, a colloquial expression widely used to describe coffee and tea. Joseph Smith clarified that in fact this WAS what was intended; nonetheless I am told that some strict Mormons in the mid-1800’s avoided even herbal teas and soups. It is also vital to remember that the Word of Wisdom was originally given as ADVICE (could someone cut-and-paste the whole revelation for folks to see it?). Only in the early 1900’s did the leadership of the LDS Church begin to treat the Word of Wisdom as a comandment and required adherence to it as a pre-requisite for temple recommends

The official doctrine is that ALL coffee-caffeinated or otherwise–and ALL tea–likewise without respect to whether it is caffeinated or not–are off limits. However 'grain beverages (such as Postum) and herbal teas are acceptable. The biggest thrust of the contemporary LDS leadership is that no one should allow themselves to develop a dependency upon any foreign substance not otherwise medically or nutritionally necessary. So a dependency upon chamomile tea would be a de facto violation of the Word of Wisdom in an individual case, even though chamomile tea is an herbal beverage not generally forbidden to Mormons.

Since caffeine addiction is pre-eminent in Western societies, this is part of the reason that so many Mormons ‘broaden’ the Word of Wisdom to include ALL caffeinated beverages. On the other hand–die-hard Mormon caffeine fiends are often quite minimalistic in their interpretation of the Word of Wisdom, so that you’ll find one LDS person who guzzles more Mountain Dew Code Red than they consume oxygen while another will refuse even to consume hot chocolate. Most Mormons fall somewhere between these extremes of course. Just as Catholics will sometimes minimize and sometimes over-emphasize certain rules of the Catholic Church depending upon their own piety.

.

Just out of curiosity and no other reason: I have been to Salt Lake City only once in my life and my husband refused to stop. he drove straight through. I wanted to see where the choir sings because i have all the recordings, but he said no. But here is probably a stupid question, but I want to know- is Starbucks coffee a big business in Utah? Do any Mormons own stores or franchises like Starbucks?

 

[Casen]

Salt Lake City is only 50% LDS now and looks pretty much like any other city. There are several Starbucks in SLC and they always look full but I can’t speak to ownership.

 

[iwonder]

Casen:

Salt Lake City is only 50% LDS now and looks pretty much like any other city. There are several Starbucks in SLC and they always look full but I can’t speak to ownership.

How many counties in Utah are “dry” counties or are there any? Are the liquor stores state owned?

 

[Casen]

I really can’t answer your question very well so perhaps someone else can answer. I see beer in all the convenience stores wherever I go and I know the hard stuff is sold from the state liquor stores but not being a drinker I can’t say much else. I do know that my non-LDS friends that drink love to complain about Utah liquor laws but usually they have a glass of wine in their hands at the time so it must not be too difficult to get…

 

[iwonder]

Casen:

I really can’t answer your question very well so perhaps someone else can answer. I see beer in all the convenience stores wherever I go and I know the hard stuff is sold from the state liquor stores but not being a drinker I can’t say much else. I do know that my non-LDS friends that drink love to complain about Utah liquor laws but usually they have a glass of wine in their hands at the time so it must not be too difficult to get…

So then, basically, we can infer that the LDS do not control the laws and regulations of the state of Utah. How come? I believe at one time LDS was the predominate population in Utah. Why does the governmental sources not reflect it? Do LDS decry political involvement?

 

[Casen]

Utah is about 75% LDS but Salt Lake City is only about 50% LDS which makes sense since it is the business center of the state and attracts people from outside the state. Also, the Air Force base brings in many non-LDS.

The LDS church certainly doesn’t decry political involvement, in fact they encourage it. I recently read that the Utah State Legislature is 80% LDS. Also, 15 members of the US congress are LDS including the Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid who is a former LDS bishop.

 

[UtahMaggie]

iwonder:

So then, basically, we can infer that the LDS do not control the laws and regulations of the state of Utah. How come? I believe at one time LDS was the predominate population in Utah. Why does the governmental sources not reflect it? Do LDS decry political involvement?

Lawmakers and the LDS church claim the church does not control the laws in Utah but, trust me, it does!
Yes, all liquor stores in Utah are state owned. They are all closed on Sundays and ALL holidays, even Columbus day.
I know this post is going to start and argument with several members here. I will be back later to back up my statement that the LDS church does control the laws in Utah.

Maggie

 

[Casen]

Maggie,
I wouldn’t agree that the LDS church controls the laws in Utah in general but I would agree they exhibit their influence in certain specific areas. For example, when it comes to how much money goes to road construction or education the church isn’t lobbying on either side. However, on moral issues and liquor laws its clear the church exerts its influence, for good or bad depending on your perspective.

Also, since 80% of the state legislature is LDS it may be hard to distinguish church influence and views from the views of the legislature. In other words, if a representative is LDS and represents a district that is 75% LDS and votes a certain way, that doesn’t mean he/she was pressured to vote that way by the church; it may just be that he/she is voting that way because that is the general consensus of the members of the district, even if they happen to be in alignment with the church. In areas of the US where Catholicism is the predominant religion I would expect government representation to be more in alignment with catholic values and principles. In the “bible belt” government representation is generally more in alignment with evangelical values and priorities. Isn’t that how democracy works??

 

[blueadept]

Casen:

I would expect government representation to be more in alignment with catholic values and principles.

That’s too funny!!! Thanks for the laugh before I go home!

 

[catsrus]

Many years ago, DH worked in a bar that was owned by a mormon. Why is it okay to own and operate the establishment if the alcohol purchased and served there is against mormon belief?
Isn’t that providing occasion? Or does that not count since one would (obviously) not be serving any mormons?

 

[BJ_Colbert]

catsrus:

Many years ago, DH worked in a bar that was owned by a mormon. Why is it okay to own and operate the establishment if the alcohol purchased and served there is against mormon belief?
Isn’t that providing occasion? Or does that not count since one would (obviously) not be serving any mormons?

It isn’t OK, by LDS Church standards, but he has his free agency to do as he wishes. Perhaps he is not an active member. I have family who were baptized but never attended church after childhood. They do not practice their religion and so should not be held up as an example of a good Mormon. They drink, smoke, and generally lead a party type life. They are technically Mormon by baptism, but do not in any way represent what the Church teaches. I am sure there are Catholics who do not practice what the RCC teaches, but are still considered Catholics. BJ

 

[Imconfused]

Casen:

Maggie,
I wouldn’t agree that the LDS church controls the laws in Utah in general but I would agree they exhibit their influence in certain specific areas. For example, when it comes to how much money goes to road construction or education the church isn’t lobbying on either side. However, on moral issues and liquor laws its clear the church exerts its influence, for good or bad depending on your perspective.

Also, since 80% of the state legislature is LDS it may be hard to distinguish church influence and views from the views of the legislature. In other words, if a representative is LDS and represents a district that is 75% LDS and votes a certain way, that doesn’t mean he/she was pressured to vote that way by the church; it may just be that he/she is voting that way because that is the general consensus of the members of the district, even if they happen to be in alignment with the church. In areas of the US where Catholicism is the predominant religion I would expect government representation to be more in alignment with catholic values and principles. In the “bible belt” government representation is generally more in alignment with evangelical values and priorities. Isn’t that how democracy works??

Yes, to a point until one reaches the Federal level. At the Federal level, well…anything can happen. So you do think at least in the past, the LDS have held significant sway in local government?

 

[Casen]

RE: So you do think at least in the past, the LDS have held significant sway in local government?

Considering that the state was founded by the LDS church and the first governor of the state was Brigham Young, LDS prophet, I’m sure it’s fair to say that in the past the church has held “significant sway in local government.”

 

[UtahMaggie]

I was looking at my original post and some of the responses. I realized my question hasn’t really been answered. I’ll re-ask it. My friend wanted some Excederine, not to help with a headache but because she was tired and wanted the caffeine. When I suggested she get a coke, she said she wasn’t allowed to drink it.

Is there a difference between using caffeine in soda and caffeine in Excederine or other OTC products?

 

[Casen]

RE: Is there a difference between using caffeine in soda and caffeine in Excederine or other OTC products?

Not in my mind. As stated above, caffeine isn’t explicitly forbidden in the WoW and many good LDS folks drink caffeinated soda. As an LDS missionary in South America we drank coke daily because it seemed the safest thing to drink considering all the culinary water problems. If your friend is avoiding Coke because of the caffeine but taking caffeine pills that’s her own personal decision and appears to me to be inconsistent.