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UtahMaggie
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Thanks, Casen. I was wondering if I was missing something.
Maggie
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Maggie
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flameburns623
Guest
Mormons can consume Excedrin even though the product contains caffeine. Caffeine is NOT PROHIBITED BY THE WORD OF WISDOM.
For that matter–Mormons can take Ny-Quil if they have the flu or a bad cold, even though this product is loaded with alcohol–which IS prohibited by the Word of Wisdom. If you review the text of the WofW, as it appears above, it is clear that even things prohibited for casual or everyday use, such as tobacco (did you catch the part about using tobacco medicinally???–I can’t vouch for it’s effectiveness, and we probably have better treatments today–but the Word of Wisdom CLEARLY AUTHORIZES the use of tobacco as a medicine).
So–although it would be sinful to consume codeine or morphine to get ‘high’–Mormons certainly commit no sin if they use such substances for genuine medical necessity, in accordance with the law and under medical advice. OTC products which are taken for a bona fide medical condition are always acceptable when taken only for such a condition. If it is taken because the person has developed a dependency on the product, without an real medical need or benefit–it really doesn’t matter whether the substance is or is not explicitly permitted by the Word of Wisdom; By dint of the fact that the person has allowed the substance to dominate their life, it is sinful and should be discontinued and avoided.
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UtahMaggie
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This has been a very interesting thread for me. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I doubt many LDS here in Utah know all this information. My husband’s ex-wife was angry at me because I bought my stepdaughter a frozen latte last summer. Now I feel like I’m a lot better informed regarding this subject.
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flameburns623
Guest
Umm–did you know that one of the ingredients in a latte is coffee?
For example:(By the way–‘espresso’ is an extra-strong coffee, just in case you weren’t familiar with it). Coffee is always forbidden under current understanding of the Word of Wisdom–unless of course there were a medical purpose for the coffee. So your husband’s ex-wife had some reason for being unhappy though it’s not fair to expect non-Mormons to know all the in’s and out’s of the Word of Wisdom. What gets confusing is that so many people–Mormons as well as non-Mormons–assume that the prohbition against coffee and tea is about caffeine. It is mainly about obeying a commandment of God, whether people understand the reason for the commandment or not.
The General Authorities of the LDS Church have tried to make the commandment seem more reasonable by explaining that it is not merely an arbitrary discipline but is part of an overall goal to avoid dependency on any foreign substance. Everyone realizes of course that the caffeine in coffee and tea make them very habit-forming and so many Mormons voluntarily limit or avoid caffeine as an extension of their adherence to the strict ‘letter’ of the Word of Wisdom. However, as in every church, some Mormons also prefer to interpret the Word of Wisdom in a manner that gives them the greatest possible latitude to do as they choose.
As you say–many practicing Latter-Day Saints are themselves not entirely clear on how to apply the rules. But that’s sort of the same way with Roman Catholics and the Lenten abstinence from meat–I notice that CatholicAnswers gets all kinds of questions, for example, about whether meat-flavored spagghetti sauce or Ramen noodles violate the rule against meat on Fridays (the meat ‘flavoring’ usually comes from powdered meat by-products–hence, ‘stricter’ Catholics would answer would be ‘yes’–the more-moderate might answer might be ‘no’ since the quantity is so tiny, and it really becomes an issue of conscience). Since Anglicans often observe the same fasting rules: I had dinner once with an Anglican friend who was quite upset with me for putting Bac’ O’ Bits on my salad one Friday. Although they are an ‘imitation’ bacon topping, Bac’ O’ Bits derive their flavor from real bacon.:bigyikes:
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catsrus
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Thanks for the clarification BJ. I really don’t know if the guy was a practicing mormon or no but he did make sure that all his employees knew he was a mormon.
You are correct in saying that there are many who call themselves Catholic but are in rebellion against the Church. I’m sure you wish, as I do, that anyone calling themselves something would either practice what they preach or just not open their mouths at all. Then we as LDS, Catholic or whatever would not have to spend so much time refuting them. I myself, do not consider a Catholic who does not adhere to the Doctrines of The Church a “real” Catholic, regardless of what they call themselves. Because I have known, mostly, only practicing mormons, I was confused by this guy’s actions.
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UtahMaggie
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Yes, I did know that there is coffee in a latte. My stepdaughter and I were out one day and she asked if she could have one. It was a hot day and the one she wanted had ice cream and chocolate chips (oh, man, that sounds good right now). Anyway, she told me that they were really good which told me that she had had one before so I didn’t think there would be a problem. Her mom sent me an e-mail a few days later saying to respect their religion and not take my sd for a latte. I explained that she had obviously had them before so why was she mad at me? Her mom never did answer me on that. I then went on to explain that my sd had told me that her mom still wore a cross even though she had left the Catholic church to join the LDS church. So I told her mom that I thought they weren’t taking their religion very seriously. I was a bit angry as you can probably guess. My stepdaughter has told me that she would rather be Catholic than LDS. When she is with us, she makes the sign of the cross when we pray and follows the Catholic teachings even though we don’t force her. I assume when she is with her mom, she has to follow the LDS teachings. It’s not an easy situation but we do our best.Umm–did you know that one of the ingredients in a latte is coffee?
So your husband’s ex-wife had some reason for being unhappy though it’s not fair to expect non-Mormons to know all the in’s and out’s of the Word of Wisdom.
Maggie
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flameburns623
Guest
There are some power issues going on in your family relationships which are tough to resolve at distance in a public internet forum. If your husband’s ex senses that her daughter is moving away from Mormonism and towards Catholicism, a stage is set for a lot of nastiness. Do not underestimate the possiblities that: 1. your stepdaughter is going through a stage of religious rebellion (she may have consumed lattes before UNBEKNOWNSTto her mom, just as some kids smoke or consume alcohol secretly; or 2. that she is (consciously or otherwise) pandering to or even manipulating your feelings, her mom’s feelings, and/or those of your husband. Watch out for an attempt by the daughter to ‘divide and conquor’ amongst the three of you–to use whatever friction there is between all of you to elicit things–material things or simply an emotional response–that she wants. If at all possible, all of the adults in her life ought to sit down together and work out a way whereby it is assured that discipline is relatively consistent between all of you. As I say–this is much more of a personal issue than anyone can or should involve themselves in via the Internet. You might be advised to seek counsel in some sort of local setting if this whole thing becomes or already is truly problematic.
I would NOT glibly assume that the ‘ex’ is less fastidious or faithful as a Later-Day Saint than you are as a Roman Catholic at all. Wearing a cross as jewelry is a perfectly acceptable personal decision for Mormons. They put far less emphasis upon symbology within their chapels than Roman Catholics do, largely because they share with most Protestants a suspicion of iconography as a distraction from devotion rather than an aid to it. But Mormon women DO often wear crosses, and the LDS Church has a few symbols unique to itself–depictions of the Angel Moroni, the ‘CTR’ or ‘Choose The Right’ rings, etcetera.
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Zooey
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OK, I read this thread thinking I would get an answer to a question, but I didn’t, so I will ask it:
From time to time I have Mormon missionaries stop at my house. If it is hot, I will offer them a glass of water…But what do I do if, as happened this past winter to both a friend & myself, if they arrive in the middle of one of the coldest days of the year? Is it OK to offfer them a hot cocoa or a cup of (decaf) tea? I mean, these 2 young guys were cold!! I felt like a jerk not offering anything to someone.(I did let them warm up in my living room).
Any idea what to do the next time? (And no, I am not a candidate for conversion; I just don’t feel like snarling at polite young people who tap on my door with the best of motives).
From time to time I have Mormon missionaries stop at my house. If it is hot, I will offer them a glass of water…But what do I do if, as happened this past winter to both a friend & myself, if they arrive in the middle of one of the coldest days of the year? Is it OK to offfer them a hot cocoa or a cup of (decaf) tea? I mean, these 2 young guys were cold!! I felt like a jerk not offering anything to someone.(I did let them warm up in my living room).
Any idea what to do the next time? (And no, I am not a candidate for conversion; I just don’t feel like snarling at polite young people who tap on my door with the best of motives).
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BJRumph
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I think the best solution is the most obvious: Just ask them.
I cannot say what injunctions are placed upon them from the Mission; but if there isn’t anything too specific in that regards, you will find that there is a great diversity in what each member will find acceptible, and the only way to know where that line is drawn is to ask the missionaries that are currently at your door.
Some mormons think it is about any hot drinks; some think it is only Tea and Coffee; some think it is about caffine; some think it is anything that is remotely unhealthy. The difficult part is that there are variations and spectrums within even those frameworks. Some of the “caffine” group will drink Hot Coco, as the caffine content is “negligible” in thier view, others insist it is an exception because GBH (the current porphet) in known to drink Hot Coco; while another will abstain from anything that is even “99.99%” caffine-free. Some anti-caffine mormons only avoid hot drinks with caffine, and others avoid all beverages, such as pop, that contain it.
So, again, the best way to be helpful as you intend, is simply to ask them what they would like.
I cannot say what injunctions are placed upon them from the Mission; but if there isn’t anything too specific in that regards, you will find that there is a great diversity in what each member will find acceptible, and the only way to know where that line is drawn is to ask the missionaries that are currently at your door.
Some mormons think it is about any hot drinks; some think it is only Tea and Coffee; some think it is about caffine; some think it is anything that is remotely unhealthy. The difficult part is that there are variations and spectrums within even those frameworks. Some of the “caffine” group will drink Hot Coco, as the caffine content is “negligible” in thier view, others insist it is an exception because GBH (the current porphet) in known to drink Hot Coco; while another will abstain from anything that is even “99.99%” caffine-free. Some anti-caffine mormons only avoid hot drinks with caffine, and others avoid all beverages, such as pop, that contain it.
So, again, the best way to be helpful as you intend, is simply to ask them what they would like.
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Zooey
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Thank you! That makes sense, but I do not want to be seen as trying to make anyone go against their religious principles…
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LDS
Guest
You really should just ask they won’t be offended. You don’t know the details of the LDS religion so you shouldn’t have to be obligated to make sure they live it correctly. That is their responsibility, and they probably would like it if you asked then they would explain why and what exactly. 
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stillsearching
Guest
Wow. If you don’t put any emphasis on symbology, how come you don’t have any? I’ll have to think about that, because if refusing or being afraid of symbols is an example of not putting emphasis on it, that’s real different. Doesn’t make sense to me. When something I consider unimportant is around, I don’t even notice-I don’t just get rid of it cause I’m afraid of it.
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LDS
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You are definately not LDS. It is discouraged to wear crosses. Not even two earingin one ear are incouraged. We have symbols that represent happy things they aren’t depressing and deterant of hope. A cross symbolizes the death of Christ, we celebrate that He rose from the dead. We celebrate the restoration of His gospel and the ordinances that we are able to preform with the restoration of the gospel.
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Andrew_11
Guest
The cross sybolizes Jesus’s triumph over sin. By his death, we are saved. The cross also reminds us of the love that Jesus had for us. He loved us enough to die a horrible death for us, and the cross reminds us of that.
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flameburns623
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I have to wonder about your own claim to be LDS. I was a Mormon for approximately 10 years. I have seen innumerable LDS women wearing crosses as jewelry, wearing earings, etcetera. I think you have the Latter-Day Saints and Seventh-day Adventists confused–it is the SDA church which discourages jewelry.
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flameburns623
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Stillsearching:
I am not LDS.
And putting’little emphasis upon symbology’ is not the same thing as banning the use of all symbols, everywhere. As Thomas Howard has somewhere written–even a church devoid of all symbols entirely is–by it’s very austerity–symbolizing SOMETHING.
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Tmaque
Guest
Actually, that’s incorrect. In Korea(where I served my mission) we specifically taught (by request of Church leadership, because I challenged it at first) that Coca Cola(and other like caffeineated beverages) was forbidden along with the other items you mentioned. At the time it troubled me that God had a different standard for Koreans than for Americans. I later came to realize that the reasoning for this was Koreans would accept a total ban on caffeine and Americans wouldn’t. It was that simple. The cart was leading the horse. The church membership was deciding doctrine based on their acceptance or rejection of such. This has been a common pattern throughout the 20th century.
On another note. To suggest green tea is harmful flies in the face of every health study done on the subject. Here are just a few known health benefits of drinking green tea:
Boosts your immune system
Lowers blood sugar
Helps prevent cavities and tooth decay
Slows the aging process
Helps reduce the risk of cancer
Lowers cholesterol
Aids in weight loss by burning calories
Reduces high blood pressure
Prevents arthritis
Reduces the risk of heart disease
Reduces the risk of stroke
Lowers the risk of blood clot
The benefits far outweigh any harm that could be done by the tannic acid or caffeine. In fact, the people with the longest lifespan in the world(Japan) drink copious amounts of green tea. It seems to me there are hundreds of substances consumed by LDS every single day that are more harmful to health than green tea.
One more thing, why don’t modern day LDS follow ALL the teachings of the Word of Wisdom.
Section 89
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
14 All grain• is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
Why is this portion ignored by modern LDS?
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VeronicasJude
Guest
I just wanted to say that Decaf Coffee is not 100% caffiene free.
Hugs
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Tmaque
Guest
Cocoa would be acceptable, definitely. I doubt they would accept any tea or coffee, decaffeineated or not. I wouldn’t have when on my mission.
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Tmaque
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There are no dry counties and yes, the liquor stores are state owned. There is plenty of alcohol consumed in Utah. In fact, most of the revenue from the non-LDS liquor sales goes to the public school system. So, if Utah ever went dry there would be an educational funding crisis.
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