California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery'

[CopticChristian]

Ablow is a television personality.

And LOL, looks like Goldberg, the director/founder of JONAH spent some time in the clink!

Ringil,

You distress me. You amuse me. You believe that homosexuality is fixed and in my opinion the only thing I see from your side is your fixed opinions absent substantive support.

Ablow is a television personality. Ablow is a Psychiatrist whose opinion mirrors mine, Dr. Mohser, and William Glasser, M.D… Ablow is a Psychiatrist that has been on television.

Bruce Lee was a Martial Artist. He was on television and made movies. He spoke about the Martial arts and taught the Martial arts. Bruce Lee was a martial artist.

Dr. Drew is an Internist. He runs Pasadena Recovery, he is on television. He counsels patients. Dr. Drew is an Internest.

Rachey Ray is a cook. Rachel Ray has a television show. Rachel Ray makes personal appearances. Rachel Ray is a cook.

So what does this have to do with Dr. Ablow’s opinion as a Psychiatrist. He is a Psychiatrist. You attack the messenger not the message that actually concurs with others. What’s up with that?

You are a Catholic. You are a Licensed Social worker. You should have empathy. You should understand difficulties in life…

Jonah’s website has publically placed information about Arthur Goldberg as a disclosure…

JONAH’s History

Notes and Clarification

Approximately 25 years prior to Arthur Goldberg’s involvement in JONAH, he was a principal in a Wall Street investment banking firm that specialized in the structuring and underwriting of municipal bonds. . Several years of protracted litigation ensued which created a huge financial burden and this ultimately resulted in a plea agreement in which the prosecution agreed to dismiss all the major counts of the indictment and accept a guilty plea on the minor counts. The trial judge’s sentencing, however, was based upon unproven allegations, thus, the initial sentence was overruled by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals which found that the lower court went way beyondthe facts of the conviction.

Because an appeal was filed, a second investigation began in a different jurisdiction and that litigation resulted in the filing of a one count Information.

It should be noted that the government’s Pre-Sentence Investigation report to the Judge for the sentence actually served specifically found that no money was lost by any investor in the structured transactions. Arthur Goldberg served approximately 6 months of incarceration in a federal facility, approximately 3 months in a half-way house, and approximately 3 months in home confinement. Upon release from the 6 plus months in the federal facility, he was rehired by his previous employer and continued doing financial work.

So your best response is that Arthur Goldberg spent time in the clink, LOL:extrahappy:

As a Catholic Christian, as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker…I would have expected…It is sad to see that Mr. Goldberg and his family suffered. He was brave enough to place this information on a public website. He is courageous and honest, too many in the world are not as courageous and honest as he.:clapping::tiphat:

JONAH was created in 1999 in Jersey City, New Jersey by Theodore and Elaine Berk and Arthur and Jane Goldberg after each family had a son who revealed his homosexuality[awkward] and they found no adequate Jewish organization to help them.[citation needed][4][5] Arthur Goldberg is a former secretary-treasurer of the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality.[1] In 2000, JONAH began providing literature and personal education to gay and bisexual Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and unaffiliated Jews and their families from the tri-state area on supposed methods of reducing and eliminating homosexuality, and became a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation. Since then, it has expanded to include membership in the United States, Israel, Canada, and various European nations. In 2010, JONAH adopted its current logo.

Mr. Goldberg looked for help when he could not find it and decided to do what any good parent would do and now we have Jonah. His efforts are laudible.

LOL? LOL?

 

[Bradski]

Help me understand how this question relates to my statement concerning the LGBT wanting the notion of sexual orientation being fixed, in the context of the discussion concerning minors as it regards the attempt to ban therapy in California for minors.

It would appear from almost everything you post that you believe that sexual orientation is not fixed. It would help to clarify your views on this if you were to answer this question:

Is your personal sexual orientation fixed?

 

[CopticChristian]

It would appear from almost everything you post that you believe that sexual orientation is not fixed. It would help to clarify your views on this if you were to answer this question:

Is your personal sexual orientation fixed?

Brad,

This discussion is about unwanted SSA in minors. Let’s take this discussion towards any adult.

Prison studies show that sexual orientation can go from straight to gay and after prison many remain gay. Is sexual orientation fixed in adulthood. No. We all have the capacity to change depending on circumstances, environment, beliefs, and other parameters.

My orientation is what it is. I have no stressors to cause me to believe that it will change any time soon.

How about you, thinkin of going one way or the other?

I post the note from Jonah and all the websites that offer hope. If these websites exist there must be some people looking to change.

JONAH, Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing, is a non-profit international organization dedicated to educating the world-wide Jewish community about the social, cultural and emotional factors which lead to same-sex attractions. JONAH works directly with those struggling with unwanted same-sex sexual attractions (SSA) and with families whose loved ones are involved in homosexuality.

Our Rabbinical sages explain that because mankind has been endowed by our Creator with a free will, everyone has the capacity to change. Furthermore, the Rabbis emphasize that parents, teachers and counselors have a special responsibility to educate, nurture, and provide an opportunity for those struggling with unwanted same-sex attractions to journey out of homosexuality.

Through psychological and spiritual counseling, peer support, and self-empowerment, JONAH seeks to reunify families, to heal the wounds surrounding homosexuality, and to provide hope.

NARTH
www.narth.com

People Can Change
www.PeopleCanChange.com

International Healing Foundation
www.comingoutstraight.com

Positive Alternatives to Homosexuality (PATH)
www.PathInfo.org

Dr. Neil Whitehead
www.mygenes.co.nz

1. Therapy producing change in sexual orientation is damaging

The best longitudinal study (backed up by many others) shows most people change to some extent - from slightly to 100%. Positive and negative effects are typical of outcomes for most other therapies. Re-orientation therapies also decrease depression, and substance abuse.

Dr. Julie Harren - Hamilton
16 Minute Video: Roots and Causes of Homosexuality www.homosexuality101.com

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
www.JosephNicolosi.com

International Institute of Reorientation Therapies
www.irth.biz

 

[CopticChristian]

It would appear from almost everything you post that you believe that sexual orientation is not fixed. It would help to clarify your views on this if you were to answer this question:

Is your personal sexual orientation fixed?

Brad,

You and Ringil can dispute and respond to these…

(1) From Dr. Dean Hamer, the “gay gene” researcher, and himself a gay man:

“Genes are hardware…the data of life’s experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what’s installed at the factory and what’s added by the user.”
–P. Copeland and D. Hamer (1994) The Science of Desire. New York: Simon and Schuster.

(2) From psychiatrist Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.:

“Like all complex behavioral and mental states, homosexuality is…neither exclusively biological nor exclusively psychological, but results from an as-yet-difficult-to-quantitate mixture of genetic factors, intrauterine influences…postnatal environment (such as parent, sibling and cultural behavior), and a complex series of repeatedly reinforced choices occurring at critical phases of development.”
–J. Satinover, M.D., Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (1996). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

(3) When “gay gene” researcher Dr. Dean Hamer was asked if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology, he replied:

“Absolutely not. From twin studies, we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to p(name removed by moderator)oint the genetic factors…not negate the psychosocial factors.”
–“New Evidence of a ‘Gay Gene’,” by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, vol. 146, Issue 20, p. 95.

(4) William Byne, a psychiatrist with a doctorate in biology, and Bruce Parsons (1993) carefully analyzed all the major biological studies of homosexuality. They found none that definitively supported a biological theory of causation. --W. Byne and B. Parsons, “Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised.” Archives of General Psychiatry 50, no.3.)

(5) Psychiatrists Friedman and Downey state that “a biopsychosocial model” best fits our knowledge of causation, with various combinations of temperament and environmental events leading to homosexuality. They say:

“Despite recent neurobiological findings suggesting homosexuality is genetically-biologically determined, credible evidence is lacking for a biological model of homosexuality.”
–R. Friedman, M.D. and J. Downey, M.D., Journal of Neuropsychiatry, vol. 5, No. 2, Spring l993.

 

[CopticChristian]

It would appear from almost everything you post that you believe that sexual orientation is not fixed. It would help to clarify your views on this if you were to answer this question:

Is your personal sexual orientation fixed?

CONTINUED:

(6) From sociologist Steven Goldberg, Ph.D.:

“Virtually all of the evidence argues against there being a determinative physiological causal factor and I know of no researcher who believes that such a determinative factor exists…such factors play a predisposing, not a determinative role…I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors.”

Goldberg adds:

“Gay criticism has not addressed the classic family configuration”; it has merely “asserted away the considerable evidence” for the existence of family factors. Studies which attempt to disprove the existence of the classic family pattern in homosexuality are “convincing only to those with a need to believe.”
–S. Goldberg (1994) When Wish Replaces Thought: Why So Much of What You Believe is False. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.

(7) An article on genes and behavior in Science magazine says:

“…the interaction of genes and environment is much more complicated than the simple “violence genes” and intelligence genes” touted in the popular press. Indeed, renewed appreciation of environmental factors is one of the chief effects of the increased belief in genetics’ effects on behavior. The same data that show the effects of genes also point to the enormous influence of non-genetic factors."
–C. Mann, “Genes and behavior,” Science 264:1687 (1994), pp. 1686-1689.

(8) Among Jeffrey Satinover’s conclusions in “The Gay Gene”:

“(1) There is a genetic component to homosexuality, but ‘component’ is just a loose way of indicating genetic associations and linkages. ‘Linkage’ and ‘association’ do not mean ‘causation.’
(2) There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic–and none of the research itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in sound bites to the public.”

–Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8.

(9) Says brain researcher Dr. Simon LeVay:

"At this point, the most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.
"In 1988, PFLAG member Tinkle Hake surveyed a number of well-known figures in the field about their views on homosexuality. She asked: ‘Many observers believe that a person’s sexual orientation is determined by one of more of the following factors: genetic, hormonal, psychological, or social. Based on today’s state-of-the-art-science, what is your opinion?’

“The answers included the following: ‘all of the above in concert’ (Alan Bell), ‘all of these variables’ (Richard Green), ‘multiple factors’ (Gilbert Herdt), ‘a combination of all the factors named’ (Evelyn Hooker), ‘all of these factors’ (Judd Marmor), ‘a combination of causes’ (Richard Pillard), ‘possibly genetic and hormonal, but juvenile sexual rehearsal play is particularly important’ (John Money), and ‘genetic and hormonal factors, and perhaps also some early childhood experiences’ (James Weinrich).” (Page 273)

–Simon LeVay (1996), in Queer Science, published by MIT Press.

(10) The American Psychological Association says:

“Various theories have proposed differing sources for sexual orientation…However, many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for most people at an early age through complex interactions of biological, psychological and social factors.”
–From the A.P.A.'s booklet, “Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality”

(11) The national organization P-FLAG (“Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays”) offers a booklet prepared with the assistance of Dr. Clinton Anderson of the American Psychological Association. Entitled, “Why Ask Why? Addressing the Research on Homosexuality and Biology,” the pamphlet says:

“To date, no researcher has claimed that genes can determine sexual orientation. At best, researchers believe that there may be a genetic component. No human behavior, let alone sexual behavior, has been connected to genetic markers to date…sexuality, like every other behavior, is undoubtedly influenced by both biological and societal factors.”

So, as in always in the field of medicine and science when there is no conclusion that means no one knows for sure, except the LGBT, Ringil and Bradski, and as for me and my house I am going with I don’t know either however I believe that it is not fixed, based on knowledge, training, understanding of General Semantics, NLP, Neurosemantics, and the notion that all people can undergo Metanoia, and in God all things are possible.

 

[Seeker1961]

You know, Coptic-I have to wonder why it means SO much to you that the entire medical community is wrong about homosexuality-except of course for the couple of widely discredited ones you keep quoting.

As someone who has spent a lifetime dealing with it, it honestly doesn’t matter what the medical community thinks. I know that I didn’t choose who I was attracted to, only my responses to that attraction,

 

[mitex]

I don’t agree with the ex-gay ban, if someone is that conflicted over their sexuality then by all means, enter therapy as long as their aware of the risks and potential for failure. But what I won’t support is someone being forced into it. I was forced into ex-gay therapy by my parents and I suffered greatly for it.

And on top of it, I never changed, quite the opposite happened, my orientation got stronger I went from having same-sex attraction to a full blown exclusive homosexual orientation. No one should be forced.

I generally oppose it as well given my profession…

Coptic in regards to your support of children being forced into “ex-gay” therapy, a number of minors have ran away from their parents and have become emancipated because of it. It has literally destroyed thousands of families. Tell me if a child isn’t going to cooperate with therapy do you really think change is going to happen.

 

[mitex]

Seeker Coptic is expressing an opinion and an opinion only. He could very well be wrong.

 

[CopticChristian]

You know, Coptic-I have to wonder why it means SO much to you that the entire medical community is wrong about homosexuality-except of course for the couple of widely discredited ones you keep quoting.

As someone who has spent a lifetime dealing with it, it honestly doesn’t matter what the medical community thinks. I know that I didn’t choose who I was attracted to, only my responses to that attraction,

Seeker,

Define and delineate entire medical community.

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t agree with the ex-gay ban, if someone is that conflicted over their sexuality then by all means, enter therapy as long as their aware of the risks and potential for failure. But what I won’t support is someone being forced into it. I was forced into ex-gay therapy by my parents and I suffered greatly for it.

And on top of it, I never changed, quite the opposite happened, my orientation got stronger I went from having same-sex attraction to a full blown exclusive homosexual orientation. No one should be forced.

I generally oppose it as well given my profession…

Coptic in regards to your support of children being forced into “ex-gay” therapy, a number of minors have ran away from their parents and have become emancipated because of it. It has literally destroyed thousands of families. Tell me if a child isn’t going to cooperate with therapy do you really think change is going to happen.

Mitex,

Where do you find me supporting or saying anyone should be forced to do anything?

 

[Seeker1961]

Seeker,

Define and delineate entire medical community.

I asked you first!

You are the one writing posts the length of War and Peace defending your position that the AMA, and APA are all wrong and you are right.

I’m just interested in why it matters so much to you that you put so much energy into it.

I don’t need the AMA, the APA, you or anyone else to tell me what my life experience has been. My attraction to the same sex probably showed up the same way your attraction to the opposite sex did. And believe it or not, I wasn’t traumatized or sexually abused. I had middle class parents who were married happily for 50 years. They sent me to good Catholic schools and college-Benedictines and Sisters of Charity. I played baseball and basketball, rode bikes with the neighborhood kids and had a regular Leave It To Beaver childhood. Yet, when all the other kids were noticing the opposite gender, I was noticing the same one. I resent people who assume that there must have been something that my parents did"wrong" to cause me to be gay. It’s an insult to two good people that did nothing but unconditionally love their child.

Look I get that it makes some people feel better to have some reason that people are gay other than they were born that way. It gives them a way to “protect” themselves or their children from having it happen to them. However, it’s really insulting and hurtful to those of us who don’t have one of those convenient reasons to explain our attractions. There are more of us than you think.

 

[CopticChristian]

I asked you first!

You are the one writing posts the length of War and Peace defending your position that the AMA, and APA are all wrong and you are right.

I’m just interested in why it matters so much to you that you put so much energy into it.

I don’t need the AMA, the APA, you or anyone else to tell me what my life experience has been. My attraction to the same sex probably showed up the same way your attraction to the opposite sex did. And believe it or not, I wasn’t traumatized or sexually abused. I had middle class parents who were married happily for 50 years. They sent me to good Catholic schools and college-Benedictines and Sisters of Charity. I played baseball and basketball, rode bikes with the neighborhood kids and had a regular Leave It To Beaver childhood. Yet, when all the other kids were noticing the opposite gender, I was noticing the same one. I resent people who assume that there must have been something that my parents did"wrong" to cause me to be gay. It’s an insult to two good people that did nothing but unconditionally love their child.

Look I get that it makes some people feel better to have some reason that people are gay other than they were born that way. It gives them a way to “protect” themselves or their children from having it happen to them. However, it’s really insulting and hurtful to those of us who don’t have one of those convenient reasons to explain our attractions. There are more of us than you think.

Seeker,

These are your words…

**You know, Coptic-I have to wonder why it means SO much to you that the entire medical community is wrong **about homosexuality-except of course for the couple of widely discredited ones you keep quoting.

Where is it you gather that I implicate the entire medical community?

The AMA does not represent all physicians.

The APA has little credibility.

You have not lived the medical experience filled with controversy on almost everything. I have. I know that some in the medical community propagate the notion that addiction is a disease and it is not yet it is propagated. It matters not what any society says. No society in my experience dictates practice or standard of care in controversial issues. It is a lie.

This is just another example of the medical community out of sink with reality and in fact not the entire medical community. In this case with an attempt to be used by the LGBT to try to govern the notion of what it is fact or fancy. It will never happen.

I am addicted to the truth.

 

[ringil]

The APA has little credibility.
.

Maybe to you, but to every licensed practicing mental heath professional and to every student being trained towards a career in Psychiatry, Psychology, Social Work, Marriage and Family Therapy, Counseling, Speech Therapy, and Occupational Therapy- the APA has plenty of credibility.

NARTH, JONAH (I had never even heard of them), not so much credibility.

 

[CopticChristian]

Maybe to you, but to every licensed practicing mental heath professional and to every student being trained towards a career in Psychiatry, Psychology, Social Work, Marriage and Family Therapy, Counseling, Speech Therapy, and Occupational Therapy- the APA has plenty of credibility.

NARTH, JONAH (I had never even heard of them), not so much credibility.

Ringil,

I understand your position, where you are coming from, and the how difficult it is to look at what you are in the midst of. It is what you learned, what you do, and I am sure in the context of your work what you are surrounded by.

I have always been an independent thinker and practitioner so it is easy for me to have that independence and not have the group mentality. The fact that there are groups that oppose the group mentality says something about the group and rather than call them fringe and disparage them, recognize that their opinion is not the group.

How do you define credibility? NARTH is researching homosexuality. Are you opposed to researching homosexuality? Is it the group mentality to stop? The LGBT want research to stop because they are just part of the gang.

Occupational Therapists? I have worked with them and they are not a vocal group.

Recall Steve Langston, LCSW, he is a hypnotherapist and that is outside the group mentality. That is why I associated with him. He happens to be part of the fringe.

The APA has Psychiatry resident joining and it one of the few groups that won’t disclose how many members it has. Does that not strike you as odd? Recognize and understand that the APA lost credibility when it took homosexuality out of the DSM and thereafter. Many know this, many see other discrepancies and the beauty of this court case is that all of this will be revealed.

I am not alone in the belief that the APA has lost credibility…do a search…

your-perception-is-your-reality.blogspot.com/2011/05/apa-american-psychiatric-association.html

video.foxnews.com/v/1454499369001/is-the-american-psychiatric-association-losing-credibility/

foxnews.com/health/2012/02/21/american-psychiatric-association-scam/

conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/homosexual-activists-intimidate-american-psychiatric-association-into-removing-homosexuality-from-list-of-disorders/

freewebs.com/theborngayhoax/theapa.htm

Only 10,555 of the 17,905 APA members voted in the election. The results were as follows,

Total APA members eligible to vote: 17,905

Number of APA members that actually voted: 10,555

Number of members that “Abstained”: 367

Number of “No” votes -votes to keep “homosexuality” in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810

Number of “Yes” votes-votes to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854

**It should be noted that the number of “Yes” votes, 5,854, made up only 32.7 percent of the total membership of the APA. **Only slightly less than one-third of the APA’s membership approved the change. It should be further noted that the vote was partially controlled by the “National Gay and Lesbian Task Force” (NGTLF). The “NGTLF” was able to obtain APA member addresses and with-out identifying itself as an organization send out letters to all members urging them to vote to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM. Bruce Voeller, the head of the “NGTLF” admits, “Our costly letter has perhaps made the difference.”

So Ringil, Bradski and others want you and me to believe that The entirety of the APA approves that homosexuality is not to be considered a disorder because it was taken out of the DSM, by science? No by vote.

 

[Kevin_B]

You know, Coptic-I have to wonder why it means SO much to you that the entire medical community is wrong about homosexuality-except of course for the couple of widely discredited ones you keep quoting.

This.

This is the same problem global warming deniers have. They claim the scientific community is wrong and biased except, of course, the handful of scientists who happen to agree with them.

Either

A) they scientific community is biased, and therefore the opinions of even the handful of scientists you have quoted is irrelevant, or

B) the scientific community is trustworthy, in which case you must acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of scientists disagree with your position.

Either way, the claim that the handful of scientists who happen to agree with you are the only ones who can be trusted is deceitful at best.

I am not clear how you came to the conclusion that I suggested anywhere that homosexuality is a disease. I claim it to be behavior in its actions. Where do you draw this information from?

You said it can be cured. According to your own words, that makes it a disease.

Your arguments are very fluid. Amazing how, when I mention cutting something, that makes it a disease, but when you mention a cure, it does not mean you have called homosexuality a disease.

So I need to watch my words carefully with you.
Someone who is left handed can be changed by their parents by encouraging them to use their right hand. However, most people would agree this change is unnatural and bad for the child.
Someone who is homosexual cam possibly have that orientation changed by encouraging heterosexual thoughts. I am simply saying that change is probably just as unhealthy. Nowhere did I say or imply a link between left handedness and homosexuality, even though you claimed that I did. I also notice that you STILL have not given evidence to support your claim that my ideas are contrary to Catholic teaching.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering, but am currently working as a petroleum engineer. That may be one of the reasons for my need for a rational reason for everything, LOL.

 

[Elizabeth502]

There is no such thing as being born ‘gay.’ Nor is there any such thing as being “born” homosexual. First of all, “gay” is a lifestyle designation that encompasses (according to that population itself) more than homosexual activity. Second, homosexual attraction is by definition, according to those who have actually studied human development and don’t rely on popular culture to dictate that to them, an evolved preference in the individual, post-birth. Our sexuality, whatever that ends up as, is neither predetermined nor congenital. Sexuality involves response, first of all. That is one of the central features of sexuality: attraction PLUS response, plus affirmation, plus comfort, and more, in a dynamic. Sexuality settles in the individual after a period of time, and “feeling different” does not count as “sexuality.” Lots of people “feel different,” and for lots of different reasons. “Feeling different” is not a marker for sexuality, in itself, despite that being a favorite “argument” by the homosexual lobby.

And note that the eventual “settled” sexuality is not necessarily a healthy choice, depending on the circumstances. For example, females who are incest victims, especially of their own fathers, often develop a hyper-sexuality in adolescence or later, as a pathological internalization of their previous experience and their “world.” They were indeed “affirmed” by their father, comforted by their father, and their fathers were attracted to them, and they (as a result of manipulation) responded. Just because the elements of their “settled” (early) sexuality were there does not mean that the roots of that sexuality were in the least bit healthy. They were compensations, reactions, and pathological.

It’s not just what you are attracted to, but why you are attracted. Attraction in itself is not necessarily a neutral, and certainly is it is not necessarily a good. If I’'m attracted to something evil, harmful, pathological, addicting, or enmeshing, and then indulge that attraction, I am the opposite of liberated: I am chained to that attraction. The fact that I am not conscious of “choosing” that attraction does not mean that the attraction is, in itself, in the category of Good. That is the fallacy from the secular gay lobby that too many fail to address. (That attraction = goodness, or at least no harm)

 

[pnewton]

You know, Coptic-I have to wonder why it means SO much to you that the entire medical community is wrong about homosexuality-except of course for the couple of widely discredited ones you keep quoting.

You realize this is a circular argument. Professionals are discredited for disagreeing with the predominant opinion. Therefore there opinion is irrelevant because they are discredited. This is precisely why an argument from “the whole scientific community” is a false authority.

Of course the AMA and the APA provide valuable evidence of the nature of homosexuality, but it is far from proof. Anyone who has lived very long is well aware of how many times both the medical and the psychiatric community has flip-flopped on health issues. The issue of homosexualit is political. The evidence is inconclusive. Therefore, it is a totally reasonable position to be skeptical of what the current thought is on the subject.

Finally, the AMA and the APA do not represent the whole medical community in there opinions. The represent only the prevailing opinion, as in the majority or plurality.

 

[CopticChristian]

This.

This is the same problem global warming deniers have. They claim the scientific community is wrong and biased except, of course, the handful of scientists who happen to agree with them.

Either

A) they scientific community is biased, and therefore the opinions of even the handful of scientists you have quoted is irrelevant, or

B) the scientific community is trustworthy, in which case you must acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of scientists disagree with your position.

Either way, the claim that the handful of scientists who happen to agree with you are the only ones who can be trusted is deceitful at best.

You said it can be cured. According to your own words, that makes it a disease.

Your arguments are very fluid. Amazing how, when I mention cutting something, that makes it a disease, but when you mention a cure, it does not mean you have called homosexuality a disease.

So I need to watch my words carefully with you.
Someone who is left handed can be changed by their parents by encouraging them to use their right hand. However, most people would agree this change is unnatural and bad for the child.
Someone who is homosexual cam possibly have that orientation changed by encouraging heterosexual thoughts. I am simply saying that change is probably just as unhealthy. Nowhere did I say or imply a link between left handedness and homosexuality, even though you claimed that I did. I also notice that you STILL have not given evidence to support your claim that my ideas are contrary to Catholic teaching.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering, but am currently working as a petroleum engineer. That may be one of the reasons for my need for a rational reason for everything, LOL.

Kevin,

Show me where I said Homosexuality can be cured.

My position is behavior can change.

If you can point out where I said “cure” let me know.

I do not believe that what you describe as change is what I ascribe to. Behaviors can change. The only way it can change is if you want it to change. There has to be motivation for any change to be change.

 

[CopticChristian]

You realize this is a circular argument. Professionals are discredited for disagreeing with the predominant opinion. Therefore there opinion is irrelevant because they are discredited. This is precisely why an argument from “the whole scientific community” is a false authority.

Of course the AMA and the APA provide valuable evidence of the nature of homosexuality, but it is far from proof. Anyone who has lived very long is well aware of how many times both the medical and the psychiatric community has flip-flopped on health issues. The issue of homosexualit is political. The evidence is inconclusive. Therefore, it is a totally reasonable position to be skeptical of what the current thought is on the subject.

Finally, the AMA and the APA do not represent the whole medical community in there opinions. The represent only the prevailing opinion, as in the majority or plurality./

 

[fix]

If a child has cancer his/her parents have an obligation to provide quality and effective care to their child.

Reparative, Conversion or whatever therapy is not an effective treatment modality.

That is a mere opinion. Each case is different. Each therapy can be different.