Call it Mass if you believe in Real Presence

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EvangelCatholic

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There are healthy debates/ discussions concerning the sacraments w/ several different viewpoints on the Eucharist. Christians who believe in a literal presence of Christ in the Host and Chalice may call it transubstantiation/ consubstantiation/ sacramental union/ “metabole”. These Christians also believe that we receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life when taking holy Communion.

Among Lutherans, there are several names for the Mass; the most common in America is Holy Communion but also the Eucharist, Lord’s Supper/ Holy Supper, Blessed Sacrament, etc. Many other Protestants also use some of these terms for the Mass yet do not believed in the Real Presence and are very unlikely to call it Mass. Roman Catholics and Orthodox also refer to the Mass as the Holy Eucharist.

My recommendation for Lutherans and Anglicans [motley as they are, per GKC] is to exclusively refer to the Sacrament as holy Mass in order to assert/ proclaim the Real Presence, as Catholics and Orthodox do.

Any thoughts?
 
EvangelCatholic said:
There are healthy debates/ discussions concerning the sacraments w/ several different viewpoints on the Eucharist. Christians who believe in a literal presence of Christ in the Host and Chalice may call it transubstantiation/ consubstantiation/ sacramental union/ “metabole”. These Christians also believe that we receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life when taking holy Communion.

Among Lutherans, there are several names for the Mass; the most common in America is Holy Communion but also the Eucharist, Lord’s Supper/ Holy Supper, Blessed Sacrament, etc. Many other Protestants also use some of these terms for the Mass yet do not believed in the Real Presence and are very unlikely to call it Mass. Roman Catholics and Orthodox also refer to the Mass as the Holy Eucharist.

My recommendation for Lutherans and Anglicans [motley as they are, per GKC] is to exclusively refer to the Sacrament as holy Mass in order to assert/ proclaim the Real Presence, as Catholics and Orthodox do.

Any thoughts?
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Why? The term Mass means more than just the Eucharist. The Mass is the entire service, though communion is an essential component. There is nothing significant about the term itself. The Orthodox do not use the term “the Mass.” For them, it’s the Divine Liturgy. Among Lutherans, gottesdienst/Divine Service has been the most common. It always refers to more than the sacrament.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
There are healthy debates/ discussions concerning the sacraments w/ several different viewpoints on the Eucharist. Christians who believe in a literal presence of Christ in the Host and Chalice may call it transubstantiation/ consubstantiation/ sacramental union/ “metabole”. These Christians also believe that we receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life when taking holy Communion.

Among Lutherans, there are several names for the Mass; the most common in America is Holy Communion but also the Eucharist, Lord’s Supper/ Holy Supper, Blessed Sacrament, etc. Many other Protestants also use some of these terms for the Mass yet do not believed in the Real Presence and are very unlikely to call it Mass. Roman Catholics and Orthodox also refer to the Mass as the Holy Eucharist.

My recommendation for Lutherans and Anglicans [motley as they are, per GKC] is to exclusively refer to the Sacrament as holy Mass in order to assert/ proclaim the Real Presence, as Catholics and Orthodox do.

Any thoughts?
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Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
 
Some info from another thread:

“The word “Mass” is derived from the final words of the Mass: “Ite, Missa Est”. Literally, “Go, it is dismissed”. In the current English translation of the Mass, the words are “The Mass is ended, go in peace”. In Latin, you will still hear the Mass called the “Missa”…for example “Missa Simplex” is a “simple Mass”, “Missa Cantata” is a “Sung Mass” and “Missa Solemnis” is a “Solemn Mass”.”

“Ite Missa Este - From ‘Missio’ - to be sent from which is also derived the word ‘Mission’.
Scripturally derived; see Mathew 28:19 -’ go therefore and make disciples of all nations’
Or again: Mark 16:15: ‘go into all the world and proclaim the good news’.
This is our primary duty as Christians and so we are sent out from the Mass suitably sanctified so we can indeed proclaim the good news to others.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=81292

It is more than just the Eucharist. It is the entire service where Catholics are nourished with the Word of God, seek forgiveness, profess faith, and receive Christ in the Eucharist which all support or mission to evangelize the world (our command in the final words of mass)
 
My thought is that it matters not what we call it, or what we think it is, or even believe it to be. What matters, and all that matters, is what God’s grace has actually caused it to become. There are only two communions in all the world in which this is not doubted.

If you are endeavoring to be “Catholic” and to be known as Catholic, why not just be Catholic and be in full communion?
 
po18guy said:
My thought is that it matters not what we call it, or what we think it is, or even believe it to be. What matters, and all that matters, is what God’s grace has actually caused it to become. There are only two communions in all the world in which this is not doubted.

If you are endeavoring to be “Catholic” and to be known as Catholic, why not just be Catholic and be in full communion?
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WOW , Perfect !

…all that matters, is what God’s grace has actually caused it to become.

Trust God, so simple, so hard for us.

Thank you !
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
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If you don’t like Catholic words around you and this is a Catholic Forum then you should go to a Lutheran Forum where your ears wont be offended !!!
 
The Mass is more than the miracle of the Eucharist; it is the sacrifice of Christ’s death on Calvary out of time not even a remembrance. I would love to believe that Lutherans have the Real Presence but I leave this question to my elders. Until there is true union, we are taught not to share the Eucharist with individuals or communities outside the Church. You may find this exclusiveness, but it is retaining the truths of our Faith.
Ecumenism is of value only if it brings all of us to the one Objective truth, and I fail to find value in watering down the doctrines of the one true church to hold hands is some uncomfortable union with such congregations as the Anglicans who are disintegrating before our eyes. Rather my hope lies with the Orthodox faith which does have the Real Presence and whose separation is not founded in the Protestantism of Western Europe under Calvin, Luther or Henry of England.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
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If you don’t like Catholic words around you, why are you on a Catholic Forum ?
Is it because you are a lapsed Catholic, and something is bothering you ?
In life we go forwards not backwards, clear what is bothering you about Catholic words,
otherwise just stay with a Lutheran Forum. So you wont have to tell us Catholics not to use Catholic words “around you” - we will use all the Catholic words we will, want to use on this Catholic Forum. Show Respect.
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
If you don’t like Catholic words around you and this is a Catholic Forum then you should go to a Lutheran Forum where your ears wont be offended !!!
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Its a trick HOUSE! Don’t fall for it! She is pulling your leg dude. I don’t think you will find any Lutheran forum or worship service (or any Christian forum or worship service) that does not use Catholic words. 😃

Peace!!!
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
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I’m not sure what you’re saying. Is it the word “Mass” in general, even when used by Catholics, that makes you uncomfortable; or are you saying that hearing Lutherans use the word “Mass” would make you uncomfortable?

If you mean the former, I would say that is a ridiculous request. If you mean the latter then I would likely agree with you, as a Lutheran, insisting that the word “Mass” not be used. In Luther’s writings, Table Talk, for example, he repeatedly refers to the “Lord’s supper” and every instance, from what I’ve seen, of the usage of the word “Mass” seems to be in a negative light…in some instances a very negative light, i.e. “is the greatest blasphemy of God, and the highest idolatry upon earth, an abomination the like of which has never been in Christendom since the time of the Apostles.”, concerning “Private Mass” and “When I first began to celebrate mass in popedom, and to make such crossings with marvellous twistings of the fingers, and could not rightly hit the way, I said: “Mary, God’s mother, how am I plagued with the mass, and especially with the crossings.” Ah, Lord God! we were in those times poor plagued people, and yet it was nothing but mere idolatry.”
Furthermore, regarding “Transubstantiation”: “What signifies it to dispute and wrangle about the abominable idolatry of elevating the sacrament on high to show it to the people, which has no approbation of the Fathers, and was introduced only to confirm the errors touching the worship thereof, as though bread and wine lost their substance, and retained only the form, smell, taste. This the papists call transsubstantiation, and darken the right use of the sacrament; whereas, even in popedom, at Milan, from Ambrose’s time to the present day, they never held or observed in the mass either canon or elevation, or the Dominus vobiscum.”
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
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I am sorry that you are not comfortable about certain words. May I ask for your patience? We Catholics are not saints, as you know;),
so we have to hash things out a bit.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
There are healthy debates/ discussions concerning the sacraments w/ several different viewpoints on the Eucharist. Christians who believe in a literal presence of Christ in the Host and Chalice may call it transubstantiation/ consubstantiation/ sacramental union/ “metabole”. These Christians also believe that we receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life when taking holy Communion.

Among Lutherans, there are several names for the Mass; the most common in America is Holy Communion but also the Eucharist, Lord’s Supper/ Holy Supper, Blessed Sacrament, etc. Many other Protestants also use some of these terms for the Mass yet do not believed in the Real Presence and are very unlikely to call it Mass. Roman Catholics and Orthodox also refer to the Mass as the Holy Eucharist.

My recommendation for Lutherans and Anglicans [motley as they are, per GKC] is to exclusively refer to the Sacrament as holy Mass in order to assert/ proclaim the Real Presence, as Catholics and Orthodox do.

Any thoughts?
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Mass it is.

Some Anglicans agree.

GKC
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
Click to expand...
I love this line!

First of all, sorry for those asking why you are here, your presence is a good thing, obviously. Though I’m sure they mean it sarcastically.

The reason I love this line, is that it sums up so succinctly the key wall between ‘truth’ and ‘fullness of truth’…

and that is the focus on ‘self’, or ourselves.

Is our comfort a part of God’s plan?

So many non-Catholic’s I speak to PICKED their church. It fit what they WANT to believe.

How in the world are we supposed to know where the truth is on our own? Why do we feel our comfort is important to God?

He surely wasn’t too comfortable when he tried out this flesh.

God’s Church, if on this world would be something He gives, not something we want.

Anyway, thanks for the comment, it is a great one!
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
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I must admit I am a bit perplexed by this, House. Our own Lutheran Confessions refer to the celebration of the Sacrament as the Mass.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Please don’t call it “Mass” around me, that is a Catholic word, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear it.
Click to expand...
My hunch is that your comment is made ‘tongue in cheek’ especially as a former Catholic and now Lutheran, you must be kidding, right? :rolleyes:
 
I understand that the word ‘Mass’ is taken from the Latin, “Ite, missa est” referring to the dismissal at the end of the service. But like other words such as the holy Eucharist/ holy Communion, the word Mass is used broadly to mean the entire service. My point is that “Mass” is not used by many Protestants, for the most part, because it includes the Sacrifice of Thanksgiving, Real Presence and the benefits of the Sacrament, namely forgiveness of sin and eternal life.

So this thread is especially focused on two Protestant communions [Lutheran and Anglican/Episcopal] who believe as Roman Catholic and Orthodox believe about the Mass. Orthodox and some Lutherans also call the Mass the ‘Divine Liturgy/ Service’ but the majority of Lutherans in Europe call it the Holy Mass while in America only some parishes use that name. My own parish church call it the Mass, but probably the majority of Lutherans in north America call it Holy Communion. But other Protestants who do not believe in the Real Presence and the sacramental benefits also call it holy Communion. Thus the confusion.
 
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