Call to (Islamic) prayer?

[LilyM]

Lily,
I essentially agree with you on this point, and can see how some would benefit from this. However, I am old enough to recall the 60’s and the great fascination of my fellow Catholics with Buddhism and later with new age. We all know the results of that wave of “enlightenment” that swept though the church.

Catholics seem to be seeking something, but only if it is outside the church. I don’t believe that it is to be found there. That’s all.

Clearly you haven’t bothered reading the rest of the thread. If you had had the common sense to do so you’d know that I’m not talking about seeking anything outside the Church, merely about letting what is outside inspire us to seek more deeply inside.

The comparison is dead wrong. The 60s Buddhists and New Agers for the most part knew traditional mainstream Christianity inside out, having been raised in it, and were consciously seeking something different.

What younger generations are doing now is the opposite. They are seeking something with all the attributes of traditional mainstream Christianity - structure and certainty for example - only they haven’t been taught that such things can be found within Christianity.

What are you doing to teach them?

 

[Trebor135]

Pls tell me whether these Muslims are Islamic teachers authorized by their respective Muftis.

I couldn’t say. Not wading through Islamic apologetics websites regularly (what a chore), I don’t see the credentials of their webmasters.

I doubt any of the authentic teachers ever talk about reading the Bible,

Well, people like Zakir Naik will appear on the surface to have done so when they quote passages that seem to undermine Christian doctrine.

Plus isn’t the Qur’an meant to be read poetically (almost like a tune; for lack a better word:blush wherein the English translation loses the point of it all?

Yes, you may hear this. Or that the English translation can’t adequately capture the original Arabic meaning. Which is hogwash. Or, if it’s true, demonstrates that the Qur’an is an over-complicated, confusing piece of literature, offering little real value to the eighty percent of Muslims who don’t speak Arabic as their mother tongue and so will never be able to understand “the Word of God” fully.

(Disclaimer: I’m studying the language as my major in university. I have nothing against Arabic… and in fact am very fond of it. But Islamic propaganda has to be exposed.)

 

[MartinJordan]

I couldn’t say. Not wading through Islamic apologetics websites regularly (what a chore), I don’t see the credentials of their webmasters.

Ah. Then we don’t need to bother about what Muslims say in these sites.

Well, people like Zakir Naik will appear on the surface to have done so when they quote passages that seem to undermine Christian doctrine.

Zakir was a student of Deedat who incidentally was banned by Muftis of Australia and Singapore back in late 80s. Zakir spouts the same “teachings” of the Bible that Deedat tried to peddle. Waste of time really. Thus they are not authentic.

, you may hear this. Or that the English translation can’t adequately capture the original Arabic meaning. Which is hogwash. Or, if it’s true, demonstrates that the Qur’an is an over-complicated, confusing piece of literature, offering little real value to the eighty percent of Muslims who don’t speak Arabic as their mother tongue and so will never be able to understand “the Word of God” fully.

Yes I agree upto a point. But the poetic view is not by me but taken from an Catholic website. americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0405.asp

Personally I have zero interest in the Qur’an.

I’m studying the language as my major in university. I have nothing against Arabic… and in fact am very fond of it. But Islamic propaganda has to be exposed.)

I believe Arabic is an evolved language. Am I close?

MJ

 

[Sam_777]

Cojuanco;10612857:

Not to mention that we may share with them things which are true. And like Saint Paul and the Unknown God, it might be a way to get them to see us in a light they had not before.

Muslims don’t care for Saint Paul. They believe he taught a false message.

:sad_yes: Unfortunate…

 

[Sam_777]

My point is that in our Christian and cheritable efforts to understand the other side, we lose sight of who we are and what be believe. There are statements here and elswhere on this forum claiming that we essentially believe in the same Jesus, and we both love Mary, etc. so, we have more in common than not.

These sentiments are admirable, but I will never find a Muslim who would agree with them.
Is this just wishful thinking on the part of the “I’m ok, your’e ok” generation?

, nice comment, yes we are in a wishful thinking generation “I’m ok, your’e ok”, “don’t argue with me, I don’t argue with you”, “don’t criticize me, I don’t criticize you”.

 

[Auntie_A]

We believe in Jesus as a prophet, priest, teacher, AND the Son of God, the Messiah.
Muslims believe in Jesus as merely a prophet, previous to Mohammed, their prophet and founder.

Mary does play an important part in the Muslim beliefs and it is believed that Mary will be the force to bring the Muslim people, also children of Abraham, back to the true faith as Catholics believe. Read your catechism. There is a special section that discusses our relationship with muslims not Islam. Perhaps that is why some people wish to study Islam. to help in evangelization.

But I also see that we have so weakened the beauty, truth, and strength of our own Catholic Church almost to the point of apology. It was a muslim student who asked a teacher at Catholic University (I think that was the school) why there was a faded image of a cross on the wall but no cross. The teacher said that the school did not wish to offend. The muslim said they thought it odd that a person would suppress their own symbols of faith!

 

[Sam_777]

Mary does play an important part in the Muslim beliefs and it is believed that Mary will be the force to bring the Muslim people, also children of Abraham, back to the true faith as Catholics believe.

Please explain , Mary in the Islamic scriptures is no more than a normal faithful woman, how she plays an important part in Muslims beliefs?

 

[Auntie_A]

Mary is held to very high esteem in the Koran, including her Immaculate Conception and the Virgin Birth.

Read about Our Lady of Fatima

and google: “The importance of Mary to the Koran” and “prophecies of Mary’s importance in the evangelization of Muslims”.

Also read our catechism 841.

 

[Ontheway]

We believe in Jesus as a prophet, priest, teacher, AND the Son of God, the Messiah.!

This ordering must certainly be reversed. We believe in Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God, first and foremost. Teacher, prophet, carpenter come later.

Islam stops at prophet, but then insists that the prophecy of Mohamad comes later, as the final word of God.

The two positions are not equivelant, or even close.
If you believe that Jesus is God and Islam contradicts the foundation of your faith, the two positions can never be reconciled. Reading the Koran, or playing nice with the Muslims does not change that in any way.

In regard to these matters it is important to discuss this with the Muslims and they will quickly explain that difference. If we engage solely in reading the Koran and looking for “similarities” we will be mislead. Mainly because passages in the Koran are contradictory and one updates or supersedes another. The Muslims choose the passage they like and dismiss others. We should not follow their lead.

 

[Auntie_A]

This ordering must certainly be reversed. We believe in Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God, first and foremost. Teacher, prophet, carpenter come later.

Islam stops at prophet, but then insists that the prophecy of Mohamad comes later, as the final word of God.

The two positions are not equivelant, or even close.
If you believe that Jesus is God and Islam contradicts the foundation of your faith, the two positions can never be reconciled. Reading the Koran, or playing nice with the Muslims does not change that in any way.

In regard to these matters it is important to discuss this with the Muslims and they will quickly explain that difference. If we engage solely in reading the Koran and looking for “similarities” we will be mislead. Mainly because passages in the Koran are contradictory and one updates or supersedes another. The Muslims choose the passage they like and dismiss others. We should not follow their lead.

I agree with your words here but I believe you have misread me. I was poorly paraphrasing our catechism. It is probably better if I directly quote: “Jesus fulfilled the messianic hope of Israel in his threefold office of priest, prophet, and king.” (Catechism 436)

“Playing nice” has been important to me due to a family member who was lured by muslims. She told me that Jesus was a prophet and I “nicely” argued that he was greater, which is true, but my dialogue with my niece was greatly enhanced by my looking it up in my Catholic catechism and reading that Jesus was indeed considered a prophet. By agreeing with her and then showing her how Jesus was more than just prophet and how Mohammed and the Koran were less, contradictory, incomplete or diminished, I was able to bring my niece back to the fullness of our faith. She began to teach her friends about Christ. Please keep her and others in your prayers.

 

[Ontheway]

I agree with your words here but I believe you have misread me. I was poorly paraphrasing our catechism. It is probably better if I directly quote: “Jesus fulfilled the messianic hope of Israel in his threefold office of priest, prophet, and king.” (Catechism 436)

“Playing nice” has been important to me due to a family member who was lured by muslims. She told me that Jesus was a prophet and I “nicely” argued that he was greater, which is true, but my dialogue with my niece was greatly enhanced by my looking it up in my Catholic catechism and reading that Jesus was indeed considered a prophet. By agreeing with her and then showing her how Jesus was more than just prophet and how Mohammed and the Koran were less, contradictory, incomplete or diminished, I was able to bring my niece back to the fullness of our faith. She began to teach her friends about Christ. Please keep her and others in your prayers.

Please take my words for what they are - just words. Your experience and success in brining your cousin back to our faith is worth so much more than any words I could utter.
I am also facing a predicament similar to yours and have been trying the gentle approach for some time. The results are not in yet, but it is all in the hands of God.

May Almighty God send His blessing on you and your niece. Amen.

 

[Auntie_A]

I guess we honestly don’t know what brings someone back to the Church, even when they tell us their experience. Only God knows truly what brings them back. I went to church with my niece and took her daughter up to the altar after mass and said a prayer for God to help her mom find her way back to the church. Within a month, her mom was back. So prayer is essential but God gave us a brain, a mouth, some muscles, and hopefully some common sense. We can teach each other and set good examples and show God’s love and mercy. This is not “soft” but active faith.

I think those who are straying sometimes need to see the beauty of our mass. The latin mass seems to draw more people to the Church. The Sacraments should be taught. The Eucharist and Confession can be emphasized. The sacramentals are often neglected: holy water, oils, blessings, rosary, devotions to saints, studying the angels.

I agree with Lily M that we need to do our Liturgy of the Hours.

We have such a richness in our faith but we forget to share those riches. We get fearful and lose hope and believe we have to be militant. But we are already militant if we practice our faith!

 

[Reuben_J]

It is of some interest to note the numerous posts on this Catholic forum that call for the study of Islam, the Koran and its traditions. In the name of tolerance and understanding, we are instructed to study the texts and interpretations of Islam to “better understand” our Islamic neighbors and their beliefs.

AFAIK, there is no call to study Islam, the Quran and its traditions. Where did you hear this and who are calling that? Personally, I believe that if a Christian has to discuss inter-religious issues it stands to reason that he has to have at least some working knowledge on what he has to discuss. And this is not just confining to Islam.

Why are there so many Catholics who seem to have become apologists for Islam?

Really? I find this strange, if this is indeed true. What is that for? Or perhaps you are mistaken if you refer to those Catholics who are defending Catechism of the Catholic Church #841. That portion of the Catechism if often misunderstood and therefore needs clarification. No Catholics are apologizing for Islam but rather for the Catholic Church.

If this is being done to foster understanding and dialogue, do we require our Muslim brothers to study the Bible, to read St. Francis, St. Augustine, Thomas a Kempis?

We cannot require Muslims to do anything for us. It is good if they do but as it is, it is for us to know their belief so that we would know what they believe and why we do not believe them. An informed Christian would always look better than an ignorant Muslim so why don’t we want to be one? It is merely common sense.

Do any of you know of any Muslim who has actually read and studied the New Testament?

There are many Muslims who have studied (read) the Bible and they became Christians. Praise God. There are also Muslims who studied the Bible and remain Muslims.

 

[Sam_777]

Mary is held to very high esteem in the Koran, including her Immaculate Conception and the Virgin Birth.

You know I don’t want to upset you, but ACCORDING TO ISLAM Muhammed suppose to marry Virgin Mary in paradise https://forums.catholic-questions.o...atholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif :

1) Read paragraph 2 on page 59 of this book:
Women in the Koran
Published 1994
Oxford University Press US
206 pages
ISBN: 0195111486
Free online version: books.google.com/books?id=lMg…apz8A#PPA58,M1

2) Read page 583 of this book:
Moon-o-theism: Religion of a War and Moon God Prophet, Volume I of II
By Natan Yoel, Yoel Natan
Published 2006
612 pages
ISBN: 1411601068
Free online version: books.google.com/books?id=G55…sRIhEzjNinDE3g

3) Christian Website:
“Tom: Well, Dave, excuse me, let me just interject this. If our listeners are interested in our article comparing Roman Catholicism with Islam, and took material from many Islamic writers and a woman in particular wrote a book on Mary, and said that from the hadith, this is the traditional writings of Islam, that Muhammad said that he would select Mary as his first wife when he entered paradise.”
thebereancall.org/node/1972

**4) Jewish Website: **
“The tradition mentions that additional noble women were promised only to Muhammad in Paradise as a reward. Among these are, for example, Asi’a, the wife of the Egyptian Pharoah; Kulthum, the sister of Moses, and Mary, the biological mother of Jesus Christ.”
israelated.com/node/32893

 

[EdmundPaul]

nutritionmattersarabia.com/2011/08/14/research-about-fasting-and-weight-gain-during-ramadan
I have heard in Australia similar weight gain occurs
rather than looking to Islam why not look at prayer and fasting in the early church?
the hundreds of crumbling monasteries and abbies throughout Europe are a sad testimony to the immense spiritual life once experienced by so many Christians

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2197020/posts