Calling All Aetheists

[Valke2]

Now I do not state that God does not exist because that is unknowable, and therefore not logical. I simply want some proof. Not the “believe or else” stuff I get from x-ains.

Let me know if you find any. My shul’s name means “Gate” and we believe there are many gates to God. I’d be interested in hearing which gate opens for you, if any.

 

[Mijoy2]

Sir, I listen to aproximately an hour or two of religious programing A DAY. I have tried everything asked of by theists, prayer, open heart, etc, and I find nothing. I am searching for him, he doesn’t seem to want to be found.

.

Monarchy, have you considered the story of the bible?

I don’t mean to be presumptous, your efforts seem to exhibit a powerful attempt and search to find truth. Your posts are genuine and from the heart (the post of yours I have read). Given this I probably cannot offer y ou any suggestions you have not already heard and maybe experienced but I will quickly outline some suggestions that has helped me along the way.

Mere Christianity - Lewis
Confessions - Augustine (powerful)
The Imitiation of Christ
Orthodoxy - Chesterton
The Everlasting Man - Chesterton

Contimplation of the story of the Jewish people throughout time. Meaning the amazing truth that they exist to this day after all they have gone through. Is it a coincidence that they happen to be the “chosen people” and against amazing odds, still exist after 2000 years of wandering the earth after being conquered time and time again?

How about just asking yourself…“why not God”? You will not find the answer (save a private revelation) to your search in your lifetime; accpeting this, and accepting that there is a 2000 year history of christianity with much evidence it is Truth, is more “proof” then you will ever find anywhere else.

Just maybe, it all happened. Nobody has proven otherwise.

I pray for and wish you the best sir, I know your journey very well.

If you do find conclusive proof either way…please send me a message.

 

[Monarchy]

Hmmm. I understand this situation. You do not always find God in religious programming but in the silence of the heart.

I stated that to show that I am looking.

You know that you can only find God with the help of the Spirit.

Are you a teen that is having a hard time?*

Nope, I am 34.

If so, you should retreat away at a designated time and read Scripture. Without the Spirit we can do nothing…

What makes you think I haven’t done this already?

Are these perhaps Protestant Christians?

Why would it matter? Are catholics not capable of fooling themselves?

Ok, then here is your proof.

We all know that God is love.

We know nothing of the sort. You believe, there is a big difference.

We also know that love in itself cannot be study. We may be able to study the reactions of love and the expression of love. But we know that love comes from somewhere, is that not right.
A human comes from his mother’s womb, speech comes from the mouth, color comes from light, etc. But where does love come from? Science can never answer this question. Yet everyone is in need of it, am I not right?
What moves someone to love someone else?
What sets love in motion?
Why in fact does everyone need this thing called love?

Now this might sound “cheesy” to you, but as Christians we believe that the bases of God’s nature is love. We were created out of love and his very proof of existence is in love.

This is a philosophical argument and not proof, in a scientic sense.

 

[Monarchy]

Actually, no it doesn’t. It sounds so filled with anxiety and unpeaceful curiousity that nothing could be possibly heard.

Or there is nothing to hear

Firstly, perhaps the knock is so soft that maybe God is just asking Monarchy to turn inside and he would find him.

Or there is no one knocking

Now, I am not smart, but I will quote this:

Luke 11:9
So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you, search and you will find; knock and the door will be opended for you. For everyone who asks recieves, and for everyone who search finds and for everyone who knocks the door will be opened.

Been knocking for almost twenty years now, and absoulutly nothing

… must not expect to recieve anything from the Lord.

Seek and you shall find, but don’t expect anything, I understand now .

Our brother, Monarchy is being tested. It implies an imperfection on his part that he would just despair like that.

Who said I was in despair? Me thinks thou art projecting.

He, in other words, has the unwillingness to be patient with God.

Wow!!! Twenty years of waiting is being impatient?

Not only is God found, but so are we. One must not lose hope, for in despairing we refuse to except the hope of the Lord.

Again, why do you think I am in despair?

 

[Monarchy]

Monarchy, have you considered the story of the bible?

Which was written by committie (sp?) hundreds of years after the fact?

Just maybe, it all happened. Nobody has proven otherwise.

Because you can’t show physical evidence for a non-exsitential claim, for anything.
.

If you do find conclusive proof either way…please send me a message.

As I have stated in past threads, You can’t prove God (or anything else) doesn’t exist through physical evidence. That is why I am waiting for the evidence to show that he does.

 

[Titus]

The difference, first of all, is that not all religions say you are going to a bad place if you don’t believe as they do.
quote]

Catholicism does not either. The Church teaches that those who through no fault of their own, either because they were never evangelised or they lived before Christ, can be saved. But that’s different from hearing the message of Christ and rejecting him.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

The difference, first of all, is that not all religions say you are going to a bad place if you don’t believe as they do.
Titus;1711384:

Catholicism does not either. The Church teaches that those who through no fault of their own, either because they were never evangelised or they lived before Christ, can be saved. But that’s different from hearing the message of Christ and rejecting him.

I know and thank you my brother. Welcome to the forums by the way.

 

[Mijoy2]

Which was written by committie (sp?) hundreds of years after the fact?

Are you suggesting that the entirety of the bible was written in the 4th century when (I believe, could be mistaken) the canon was compiled?

How would this come to be? A conspiracy maybe? Frankly I find this more difficult to believe then believe that the bible was written over many centuries.

A group of men, got together made up the entirety of the redemtion story from Genesis through Revelation, actually wrote it all down, then passed it off as being written over time…successfully? What was thier motive?

The belief is that the bible was written by many authors, over the course of two? thousand years from Moses through the apostle John. The fact the bible tells a story that is continuous and the “chosen people” still walk among us, I find miraculous.

Maybe you should start here, with the historic story of the bible’s origin. Maybe somone in this forum can suggest a good source to begin.

 

[Mijoy2]

As I have stated in past threads, You can’t prove God (or anything else) doesn’t exist through physical evidence. That is why I am waiting for the evidence to show that he does.

One of two things will happen then. Either you will die and become worm food (a phrase stolen from Jimmy Akin) and will never know that you were right all along. Or, you will get your proof and meet Him face to face where you will have an opportunity to discuss it with Him. Then you can ask Him if you were given enough “proof” while on earth or if His evidence of His existence was inadaquet.

I often think about this. I too (if not worm food) will love to find out why His revelation was to such a degree that many have trouble fully believing. Myself incuded, I am hoping for His mercy in this regard. Again, if not worm food.

 

[Image_of_God]

I stated that to show that I am looking.

**
Yes, but you also have stated that you have given up.

Nope, I am 34.

OK.

What makes you think I haven’t done this already?

Sorry, it seemed like it. But you have given up.

Why would it matter? Are catholics not capable of fooling themselves?

Oh, yes they are. But is important to know that the Catholic Church has a central position on matters, unlike Protestants.

We know nothing of the sort. You believe, there is a big difference.

Perhaps you are right, but how do you know we are not right. This is the essence of faith. There really is nothing if you can only believe what is seen.

This is a philosophical argument and not proof, in a scientic sense.

Then where does love come from? It must come from somewhere. At least scientificly their is a source for everything, am I not right.

Why did you dispear?
What good does it do to stop trying?
Do you believe you will find God by prayer or with prayer?
Do you believe you can find God on your own accord or do you believe you can find him only with his help?

To tell you, God has not stopped knocking. You have.
Maybe God is seeing how long you will knock. You have already despaired and their is no hope of finding him if you think he is not knocking. The Lord wants to come and “dine” with you. You have ignored his call at the door.

 

[Image_of_God]

Are you suggesting that the entirety of the bible was written in the 4th century when (I believe, could be mistaken) the canon was compiled?

How would this come to be? A conspiracy maybe? Frankly I find this more difficult to believe then believe that the bible was written over many centuries.

A group of men, got together made up the entirety of the redemtion story from Genesis through Revelation, actually wrote it all down, then passed it off as being written over time…successfully? What was thier motive?

The belief is that the bible was written by many authors, over the course of two? thousand years from Moses through the apostle John. The fact the bible tells a story that is continuous and the “chosen people” still walk among us, I find miraculous.

Maybe you should start here, with the historic story of the bible’s origin. Maybe somone in this forum can suggest a good source to begin.

’

There is scientific proof that the bible was not written by the same person. It was writen over a 1,050 years.


I don’t have a source but somebody will find one.

 

[Image_of_God]

Or there is nothing to hear

Or there is no one knocking

Been knocking for almost twenty years now, and absoulutly nothing

Seek and you shall find, but don’t expect anything, I understand now .

Who said I was in despair? Me thinks thou art projecting.

Wow!!! Twenty years of waiting is being impatient?

Again, why do you think I am in despair?

You are not in despair in a physical and secular sense, but you are in despair, by losing hope in God in a Christian sense.
Hope and Despair are counterparts. Either you hope in God or you despair in him. Which is it?

If you read the Scriptures, you would understand what it meant. If you doubt, how can you expect anything? Since in the process, you are saying you want something, but you don’t believe you’ll get it so you don’t want it.

Yes, twenty years is being impatient. God is outside time, our time is a blink of an eye to him.

Or there is someone knocking just now and you cannot hear because you have already left the door.

 

[Image_of_God]

Read these quotes from a very talented a blessed Western theologian of the Early Church: St. Augustine

I pray that you see the truth in them:

“Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only what we know about nature.”

“Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand.”
wikiquote.org

Look at these quotes.

Just looking at them makes realize one thing you are doing wrong.
You are trying to limit GOD’s power to our own human comprehension. Must God be fit your requirements of belief, or do you fit his requirements? If something is above scientific knowledge, would you believe it?

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

I have encountered Monarchy in other threads.

I think his position is that of scientism … he will not believe in a God that cannot be scientifically proven.

This is another way of saying he does not want God to exist, since he knows very well there is no compelling scientific proof for the same.

This means he has locked the door and thrown away the key. So what’s the use of knocking?

 

[pagan_soul]

Why is it necessary for atheists to “get it”? I am curious as to why atheists cannot be respected for their own choices. By now I’m pretty sure many atheists have heard of Jesus and the Bible and they have decided to stick with what makes sense to them.

I can respect that.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

pagan soul

I am curious as to why atheists cannot be respected for their own choices.

Are you just as curious as to why atheists cannot respect Christians for their own choices?

 

[pagan_soul]

uh…sure…not sure what that has to do with my post exactly but yes, I see no reason why all people can’t be respected for their religious choices.

 

[pagan_soul]

All right, if you want to be broader in scope then the original post then sure, why can’t everyone just respect each other’s choice of religion?

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi there,
Ive only just had a brief glimps at this thread and want to put my 2c worth in. I was born a catholic and will die a catholic!
I have not always been faithful to my religion, heck, ive done some things that make me cringe just thinking about it.
But in the past few years, ive turned back to the church. Although I have not been to church every sunday etc, Im trying my best to abide by the word of God, its only been in the past few months that i have finally pulled myself together and have started to attend church every sunday, and to follow the word of God the best I can, but i still make some pretty big errors.
I have not ‘heard’ Jesus and Mary calling me back to the faith, but have ‘felt’ the calling back. Ive started reading the bible again and say the rosary on a daily basis (well almost), and now I feel a great sensation come over me, something telling me im doing the right thing by my faith and by God.
He knows im not perfect and still have a way to go to beat some of my little quirks, after all, I was born as a human and will make mistakes. But I feel in my heart the love of Jesus/Mary and God with me and I would never want to leave it again, its quite a beautiful feeling actually.
So my point is, you can still feel Jesus calling you, even though you dont really listen, and by doing so, just start off simple by saying the rosary etc. Trust me, you will never look back!

 

[pagan_soul]

Well I think thats absolutely great. Everyone should experience their faith that way. Daily rituals like you describe are fantastic for grounding oneself in their religion. I’m glad you went back to it.

Many Catholics who venture into paganism ask people like me for guidance or the book or a teacher. I usually tell them to go back to church if they can and work through the issues they have with it as its contains everything they are looking for and they will be happier for it. Many former Catholic pagans miss all the ritual and structure that the church offers. So I’m glad you went back!