K
KenEOTE
Guest
I am in enough threads. I don’t want to go looking for more to join.
- Status
K
KenEOTE
Guest
I like how you keep telling me what is and isn’t my business… Frankly I think it is none of your business what is my business. I find it offensive that you think you have the right to tell anyone what thier business is. 
K
Kaninchen
Guest
I like how you keep telling me what is and isn’t my business… Frankly I think it is none of your business what is my business. I find it offensive that you think you have the right to tell anyone what thier business is.
K
KenEOTE
Guest
I thought you would like that. 
T
tomarin
Guest
First of all, you have a (in my opinion) distorted and overly simplistic view of life in the United States. We do have a less robust social welfare system than most European countries, for historical and political reasons, but you make it seem as though we have no social programs (or conscience) at all. Medicare and Medicaid are health insurance programs for the elderly and destitute which were set up by Franklin Roosevelt during the Great Depression. One can argue that the income level for Medicaid is set artificially low and should be raised, (and I might even be in favor of that as a way of responding to the country’s health care crisis) but that’s a very different criticism than saying “you Americans have no heart”.
Similarly, we have the land grant college system which created “state schools” which provide an affordable postsecondary education to students residing in that state. It’s not the same as free education but it meets some of the same social needs and blunts your criticism that because we don’t have cradle to grave socialism we must be heartless monsters.
Would it surprise you that many (probably most) Americans were and are shocked by the inability of the federal government to respond properly to the Katrina disaster?
The conventional wisdom about American Catholics is that we tend to be less government-phobic then the stereotypical evangelical christians who make up the so-called “religious right”. That is, we’re conservative on some social issues (abortion, same-sex marriage) but we’re liberal on economic issues (the environment, health care, etc.). I used to believe this whole-heartedly since it describes my own politics farily accurately but after spending time on this message board I’m not so sure.
I think that that used to be true of all catholics (since most of us are of non-WASP ethnic background and our families have long been Democratic voters) and is still true of the majority of nominal catholics. But I suspect that if you investigated the political views of those catholics who attend Mass evey Sunday and go to confession regularly you would find their views on all issues to be much more conservative than the mass of nominal catholics who don’t live their faith, and probably more conservative than Americans in general – like a lot of the people who post here.
J
jfoges
Guest
B
bobzills
Guest
But i was in a country in Europe and got sick and needed to see a doctor. There was no need for any papers or proof that I was enrolled in this or that system. The doctor just saw me and gave me his diagnosis and medication, and there was only the very minor cost for the medication. Similarly with the dentist, there was no cost at all. Here in the USA you need proof of insurance before a doctor will see you and in many cases he won’t see a foreigner who doesn’t have the money to pay him.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
How much of the money allotted for medical care for the poor from the federal and state governments do you think actually gets to the poor? Not nearly as much as it should. Why? Beauracracy. We need to stop the waste!!! And most things from the government are wasted, while a little is doing what it is supposed to do.
Example: Louisiana voted for legalized gambling about 15-20 years ago. It was voted on because the platform that was used was that the money would go into the school systems, hospitals, etc. The school systems or board of education or whatever, had to go to court recently to demand that the money from the gambling industry would be used the way voters approved it. The money was being wasted and going into politicians pockets. Is this how you want your tax money spent. Where as, if you give to the Church collections that state that it is for helping the poor, helping missionaries, or whatever…not the general collection that pays for the church building and salary of the priest…it is going to all go to that fund. It will not be wasted or go into someone’s pocket rather than where it was stated it would go. And donations are already tax deductible.
K
KenEOTE
Guest
I have had a different experience. My wife and I had 2 daughters here in America and at the time we did not have inusrance. Both times we had a great doctor and a great room in the Hospital. Both the Doctor (who we used both times) and the Hospital worked with us on payment. They even gave us a discount. I only recently (Last Week) got insurance. I have been without insurance here in America for 5 years. In that time I have never been turned away by a Doctor or Dentist. I only took insurance because the place I work offered it.
K
KenEOTE
Guest
R
rlg94086
Guest
Wow! Fix those quotes…for a second there, I thought estesbob posted the quote you provided and had lost his mind.
T
tomarin
Guest
There’s no question that finding medical care without insurance here is a nightmare. I have insurance through my job and I don’t know what I would do without it. That’s not my point, though. My point is that we do have programs to take care of the very poor. He just ignores that and the state school system either because he doesn’t know about them or because he has a reflexive dislike of the United States and these facts would get in the way of his denunciations.
B
bobzills
Guest
But it is not so in many European countries?
T
tomarin
Guest
Huh? Now you’re confusing me. I was agreeing with you in my last post.
po18guy
Well-known member
We must never forget that the government is Caesar. There is no commandment for government to love, and it does not - except the gain of additional power. We are under the commandment to love on another, which is diametrically opposed to a secular government.
If government was sufficient for man’s needs, Christ would not have drawn the distinction between Caesar and God. Your allusion to church hospitals was perfect.
Christ’s peace.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
Just out of curiosity, do you want government fun healthcare? Do you think it would truly benefit your situation…with politics involved in the health care?
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
Where do you live? that was an exceptional doctor. I have been turned away from doctors offices a number of times for not being able to pay up front.
I am now forced into unemployement from the government if they are going to give me medicaid for a much needed operation. If I am to be making more than (the exact amount…not a rounded off figure…$259.00 per month, I get nothing from medicaid.)
Listen carefully. I am in need of medical care…and at this moment, the charities do not cover major medical costs.
What I believe needs to happen is that the government lets the people know that we have a short time…say a year…to open charities run by churches or other organizations that are not government run…and then the government should cease…STOP…with health care. When people know that they are not paying in taxes, but people will need help in charities that WILL put their money to much better use than the government ever has, WE WILL RESPOND generously. Especially because donations are tax deductible. Then the hospitals and such can start being run by Churches, the way they used to before government started with “Free healthcare for the poor.”
I don’t want to rely on the government. I know for a fact that they are screwing things up, just by the fact that I am not elligible for ANY medical help if I am doing my best and just not able to pay the $20,000 my much needed operation will cost. I cannot be just a “little dependent and in need of help”, I have to become totally dependent on them. Without a job, I will need a check every month wich will not pay for rent or utilities, and food stamps. I resent that. I want to be able to work. If charities were involved in this program, they would be glad that they were only needed for a small amount, rather than all of my bills. They would encourage me to work as much as I could.
My point is, the government messes up even what society has needed. They need to get out of the picture, and the charities and churches need to pick it up again.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
Once again, someone has said it so much better than myself. Thank you. That is my point.
S
seekerz
Guest
The government can control the health care system but does not set a code of ethics for any profession I know of. Any changes to the Hippocratic oath and other principles stemming from it, have to my knowledge, been made by the medical profession itself (self regulation). Which is why, theoretically at least, no doctor or government agency can force a health care person to participate in an abortion (they could always find some other excuse to get rid of the person however).
In the countries that I’ve lived in (four) with socialized medicine, what determines how medical ethics is adhered to, is the way life is valued in the society as a whole. The governments there do not set codes of conduct/ethics for medical professionals - that function is carried out by medical boards and is independent of the health care administration machinery.
Governments does have a role (through it’s various agencies) in defining and ensuring adherence to established standards of care, but the idea that they could turn the basic process of medical triage on it’s head just doesn’t seem plausible and has happened nowhere else that I’m aware of.
K
KenEOTE
Guest
At the time I lived in Florida now I am up in DC
- Status