Calling All Catholics!

[ralphinal]

I hate to state this, because it may sound like a stereotypical Orthodox answer. But really I believe it and have been expounding on this in different ways lately.

We need to return to the mystery with awe and wonder.

If you think just for a minute about the Christological agreements and Justification statements and all those other things that are happening between churches, what do you suppose is the actual ratioanale for them?

The churches are agreeing that, in theory, they have been believing the same things all along but using different words to describe them. The two parties never admit that they use THE WRONG words, just different words that don’t carry the ideas well!

What is that if it’s not mystery? Perhaps they are not WRONG words at all (giving the benefit of the doubt) just confusing words and terms to be applied to creatures like us. Terms that have divided us, like the ancients were divided at the Tower of Babel.

The problem is, these “developments” were intended to clarify, and instead have split the church wide open. By doing this, the words, terms, phrases have lost their legitimacy, they have confused the faithful rather than clarified.

When we can say something like “we have believed the same things all along, but used different words” we are saying that the doctrine has been a mystery.

Gods ways are not our ways. What makes logical good sense to we human creatures may be foolishness to God. Ours is a religion of paradox and wonder, we might just as well accept it.

Let us return to the revealed Truth, and back away as far as is possible from the derivative explanations of that Truth, which are all naturally inadequate, because they come from us.

Michael

I more or less agree. In some ways, I think this is more true with the Protestant/RC issue than the Orthodox/RC.

Avoiding the Orthodox/RC issue in this, the last line is the problem in general, I think. People would have to admit that they follow teachings of men and not of God. In other words, they ahve to say that they were wrong and have been for many years.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Resurrecting this thread in light of the direction this thread is going.

Why are Protestants invited to respond to a topic and then beaten up for their remarks? I say don’t take the bait anymore.

 

[josie_L]

Resurrecting this thread in light of the direction this thread is going.

Why are Protestants invited to respond to a topic and then beaten up for their remarks? I say don’t take the bait anymore.

Why are Catholics invited to respond to a topic and then told their “idol worshippers” or worse? It goes both ways (and trust me after a year I’ve seen a lot of people banned here for their many anti-Catholic remarks).

note: I’ve been called lazy, a non-Christian, brain-washed . . .etc. you name it by people who believe Catholics need to be saved.

 

[O.S.Luke]

So this makes it right? Tit for tat?

 

[ralphinal]

The other thread had a fair question that can and should be discussed in charity. The problem is that there can be far to little charity on here.

I would like to know what issues kept people away from the Catholic Church when these people learned the truth and not a misrepresentation of it. Just like it would be good for non-Catholics to see why Catholic who studied their faith rejected it.

I just wish people would be kinder. If person A could not cross the Tiber, even though they were presented with all the facts, it does not make person A evil, stubborn, or a jerk. It just means that person A is staying on their side of the river for whatever reason.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Of late… I don’t see much that is edifying here for Catholic - non-Catholic debate. The more recent threads appear, at least to me, to contain a lot of Catholic backlash and payback for the anti-Catholicism people have experienced over the years. There are of course some wonderful exceptions, but I fear they are just that - exceptions.

If Catholics aren’t going to budge an inch with the Orthodox, I really don’t see much point in Catholic-Protestant dialogue. Do you?

I have a lot of respect for the Catholic faith. I don’t feel that is returned in many of the conversations here, tho. Perhaps this dialogue is just fruitless.

O+

Luke, I’m curious how you’d like dialogue to go instead. I certainly don’t condone lack of charity whether that person be Baptist, Catholic, heathen, whatever…

 

[josie_L]

So this makes it right? Tit for tat?

No, but you could stand to be a little bit more objective (it’s not the poor little put upon Protestant parade you make it out to be).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I can handle the baiting and some of the craziness but the CUT-AND-PASTING from Catholic Answers and other Catholic sources drives me CRAZY!!! I like to read a person’s insights and maybe just a quote or two. But those huuuuuge posts with endless quotes from cut-and-pasters, that is my pet peeve really…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No, but you could stand to be a little bit more objective (it’s not the poor little put upon Protestant parade you make it out to be).

You couldn’t be more right, Josie. There are heaps of Protestants in here who come in here to rant or want a fight and I see them every day. And some liberal Protestants come on here and are blown-away mad when they get a backlash from being pro-choice or pro-gay marriage or pro-women’s ordination. They call the Catholic positions bigoted and intolerant then get flabergasted when the Catholics call them on it. It’s like me as a raging San Francisco Giants fan going on the Dodgers message board and expecting to be greeted with “Hosannas…” after ripping apart Tommy LaSorda!

 

[josie_L]

I can handle the baiting and some of the craziness but the CUT-AND-PASTING from Catholic Answers and other Catholic sources drives me CRAZY!!! I like to read a person’s insights and maybe just a quote or two. But those huuuuuge posts with endless quotes from cut-and-pasters, that is my pet peeve really…

I like to cut and paste it gives my brain time to recharge. God bless Gurney.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I like to cut and paste it gives my brain time to recharge. God bless Gurney.

Your brain is pretty impressive, Josie. I don’t think it needs recharging. It has reserve emergency power. And I wasn’t referring to you anyway, you stinker!

 

[kalt]

I’ve been posting here for a few years, and these types of posts come in cycles:

“Calling all non-Catholic Christians”
“Non-Catholic Christians - Did You Know?”
“For All the Protestants On This Forum”

The thread then starts off with something like “Let us assume that the Catholic Church is wrong”, or “Hypothetically…” or some similar sentiment.

Let’s just call it what it is: it’s baiting for a fight, pure and simple.

Is this just backlash against Catholic bigotry? If it is, I would suggest that Catholics not lower themselves to respond to such immoral behavior against people that should know better.

However, If it’s an honest attempt for conversation, do you see how it’s really not helpful?

Were I a wandering Christian without a church or communion to call home, I suspect I would feel more invited by kind and gentle sentiment than chastisement and less-than-genuine sentiment such as baiting and taunting.

My :twocents:

How many are here to convert others? I’m not. It makes no difference if non-Catholics accept the truth of Catholicism. I figure that people are smart enough to decide for themselves what church they like best. Some are interested in belonging to the church that is the truth. Others are more interested in the social aspects of religion, and choose a church that is “friendlier”.

This seems to be a debate board, even if it wasn’t designed to be one.

Now, if you want to discuss debate etiquette…

 

[kalt]

Of late… I don’t see much that is edifying here for Catholic - non-Catholic debate. The more recent threads appear, at least to me, to contain a lot of Catholic backlash and payback for the anti-Catholicism people have experienced over the years. There are of course some wonderful exceptions, but I fear they are just that - exceptions.

If Catholics aren’t going to budge an inch with the Orthodox, I really don’t see much point in Catholic-Protestant dialogue. Do you?

I have a lot of respect for the Catholic faith. I don’t feel that is returned in many of the conversations here, tho. Perhaps this dialogue is just fruitless.

O+

What do you mean by “budge”? Do you mean that the CC should compromise its beliefs?

 

[O.S.Luke]

No, but you could stand to be a little bit more objective (it’s not the poor little put upon Protestant parade you make it out to be).

I think I am fairly objective - and I am not the only one who has noticed this on threads that start out, “Protestants…” It’s a set up; more times than not, they aren’t interested in hearing your why, they are interested in slamming the door on your response. I would think on a Christian forum that honest debate would be preferable to baiting.

But, I could be wrong.

 

[O.S.Luke]

What do you mean by “budge”? Do you mean that the CC should compromise its beliefs?

Actually, I don’t think Catholicism or Orthodoxy is going to “budge” much on their stances on anything. Even though both say they are the Church, and that the other one split off from them.

Maybe I’ll stay a Protestant until you guys work it out - or one of you dies off. I’d hate to cross the wrong river. (Tiber… Bosphorus… Tiber… Bosphorus…)

 

[piejesu]

I think of this forum as I think of my local parish, a microcosm of Christianity in general, Catholicism being at the root.

When you find the perfect church, don’t join it, because it won’t be perfect anymore.

I think the wheat and the tares symbolism is most appropriate. We would probably all do much better in our communication if the focus of our reflection was upon our own state in that scheme of things, rather than that of our neighbor.

 

[Harpazo]

I think I am fairly objective - and I am not the only one who has noticed this on threads that start out, “Protestants…” It’s a set up; more times than not, they aren’t interested in hearing your why, they are interested in slamming the door on your response. I would think on a Christian forum that honest debate would be preferable to baiting.

But, I could be wrong.

I agree. I started a thread similar to this a few months ago and it got locked because of the firestorm it caused. Many of the threads on this particular forum are insanely off topic. “Daily Mass readings?” I don’t see what that has to do about comparing and contrasting beliefs.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Harpazo]

Actually, I don’t think Catholicism or Orthodoxy is going to “budge” much on their stances on anything. Even though both say they are the Church, and that the other one split off from them.

Maybe I’ll stay a Protestant until you guys work it out - or one of you dies off. I’d hate to cross the wrong river. (Tiber… Bosphorus… Tiber… Bosphorus…)

It’ll be a while. I gave the Tiber a chance, but then found Orthodoxy to truly hold the Catholic Faith and was most faithful to the early Church. My conscience wouldn’t allow me to remain idle. My suggestion would be to read up on both, pray and choose a side.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[dsears]

To the OP, I’ve not seen that on here. I’ve found this place to be welcoming and loving. In fact this is one of the things that helped me from sitting on the fence between the UMC and the ECUSA to make the jump to the Catholic Church.

 

[kalt]

Actually, I don’t think Catholicism or Orthodoxy is going to “budge” much on their stances on anything. Even though both say they are the Church, and that the other one split off from them.

Maybe I’ll stay a Protestant until you guys work it out - or one of you dies off. I’d hate to cross the wrong river. (Tiber… Bosphorus… Tiber… Bosphorus…)

You do that. Whatever makes you happy. Why make a Net-claration? Who cares what church you belong to?

And why do so many of you come to a Catholic site, apparently, only to eventually declare that you reject the Church? You were doing that long before you got here. Why do you think we would be interested in reading about how you’ve considered it and rejected it. Do as you please. What’s with the announcements? Do you think you’re hurting our feelings or something? Do you think it will bring a flood of posts begging you to think it over? That we’ll beg you to convert?

You’re an adult. I assume you can figure out which church was founded by Jesus.