Calling in sick to work when you're not sick is no different from murdering 6 million people? Catholics, Protestants, Muslims.. what say you?

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yellowbird

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I am Catholic. My friend is Protestant. We’re talking about people who do horrible things… like abortion providers and the Nazis who murdered all those people and piled them in heaps like it was no big deal. She said that while those things are certainly terrible, the sins of those men are NO DIFFERENT from the sins she and I commit. So I gave her the example of gossip… let’s say that’s the sin I struggle with most. Is that sin the same as performing abortions or torturing and murdering people? She says yes. No different.

She believes:

sin = sin, therefore in God’s eyes: calling in sick to work when you’re not = sex before marriage = greed = raping a child = killing 6 million Jews. No difference.

I’m not asking if God could forgive all of those things… of course the answer is yes. I’m asking if YOU believe all sin is the same?

What say you?
 
I do not believe all sin is the same. To lie and call into work “sick” when one is not sick does tarnish one’s life…the person who does this is not living out of the “Center of Truth” and hurts only themselves…and perhaps their co-workers that must take up the slack.

Killing innocents because of race…torturing the helpless because of politics…not only do violence to the person that is being harmed…but deep violence to the soul of those doing the killing and torture.

Not only do they take a life…but they effect ALL who knew the person they caused harm to…their sin is compounded by sin upon sin.

I would rather an employee call in sick when they are not…than walk in one morning with a gun and begin killing all those in the office…which is worse? I think that is apparant.

I think your friend was trying to make the point that sin…no matter how ‘trivial’ is still…sin…and as sin…missing the mark of God’s holiness.

The OT Law gave different punishments for different offenses…if all sin or breaches in the Law was the same…the penalty for each and every infraction would have been death…or a sin offering.

Your friend was speaking more through hyperbole than really thinking it through…but no matter…sin is missing the mark…how far we miss the mark is another issue…but if one is falling off a cliff and only misses the branch to save oneself by 1/32" or 32 feet…the branch that would have saved you was still missed…I believe that is the point they wished ot make…no matter how poorly it was worded.
 
All sin IS NOT the same. Calling in sick to work when you are not, is dishonest, but you do not deprieve another being of it’s life. MURDER must be the ultimate sin.

Please view the *You Tube *video *Animals You Eat: Bad Meat! *and explain to me how Catholics can be a part of this. This planet and all creatures in it are gifts from God. When we abuse animals, when we partake in pollution, when we degrade the planet/environment, we disrespect God. My Catholic Church speaks of Respect for Life–but we must respect ALL of life, ALL of God’s gifts, ALL of God’s creation. Catholics must stand up for the Repect of ALL of life, ALL that God has created–we are the STEWARDS of the planet. Watch this video and you will not feel like a steward–you will feel the tarnish, you will feel God’s disapproval.
 
Of course sin is sin, and any sin (by definition) turns us away from God. But Scripture and Tradition teach us that there are different levels of sin. Some sin is mortal, while some sin is not. Her belief is simply incorrect.
 
From my point of view as a convert from atheism, all sin seems to boil down to a denial of God’s existence. Though the effects of sin on the rest of us may be different. For example, by stealing even a penny from someone, the thief is really saying that his will rather than God’s will is important, which is a denial of God. So for me, each of the other 9 Commandments are elaborations of the 1st, and any sin is just a turning away from God, and breaking of the 1st Commandment.

As for the distinction between venial and mortal sin, consider this: How many times have you heard of people trying to “find their path” or something similar, as though there are so many to choose from? Rather, I think that there is merely one road, either towards God or away from God. When we sin we turn our back on God. If it’s a mortal sin, not only have we turned out backs to god, we’re driving away from God. But if it’s a venial sin, we’re not so much driving away from God than just standing still facing away from Him. By the sacrament of reconcilliation we can make a U-turn and head back to God. It’s just up to us how fast we want to drive (in either direction) 🙂

Hesitating to pretend I’m God, I think that from God’s point of view, there might not be much difference between what we consider minor/major sins; either way, we insult God by giving him our backside to look at!
 
From God’s perspective ANY sin places one apart from Him and creates a void between us that man cannot cross via his own strength. That’s why eating one stupid apple ultimately made this wonderful world such a disaster area.

But we aren’t Adam and Eve. As christians, we’ve been redeemed and are in the process of being sanctified. During this process, we can make choices that either totally set us back (mortal sin) or partially set us back (venial sins). The difference is the Redeemer! Jesus hasn’t just restored us to what Adam and Eve were before the fall. By dying to redeem us, He gave us GREATER value and dignity than they possessed before the fall. God himself loved us enough to die to save us. How awesome is that?

Some protestants don’t understand catholic distinctions about severity of sin AFTER redemption because they don’t believe sin has any meaning anymore. If their theology holds that behavior is irrelevant and faith is all that saves you then you can understand how they come to their conclusions. (e.g. All sin is mortal for the unbeliever and all sin is irrelevant to the saved.)
 
yellowbird said:
I am Catholic. My friend is Protestant. We’re talking about people who do horrible things… like abortion providers and the Nazis who murdered all those people and piled them in heaps like it was no big deal. She said that while those things are certainly terrible, the sins of those men are NO DIFFERENT from the sins she and I commit.

What say you?
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Yellowbird,

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (KJV 1John 5:16-17)

16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask.
17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death. (Douay-Rheims 1John 5:16-17)

Have a good weekend.

Peace, Graubo
 
yellowbird said:
I am Catholic. My friend is Protestant. We’re talking about people who do horrible things… like abortion providers and the Nazis who murdered all those people and piled them in heaps like it was no big deal. She said that while those things are certainly terrible, the sins of those men are NO DIFFERENT from the sins she and I commit. So I gave her the example of gossip… let’s say that’s the sin I struggle with most. Is that sin the same as performing abortions or torturing and murdering people? She says yes. No different.

She believes:

sin = sin, therefore in God’s eyes: calling in sick to work when you’re not = sex before marriage = greed = raping a child = killing 6 million Jews. No difference.

I’m not asking if God could forgive all of those things… of course the answer is yes. I’m asking if YOU believe all sin is the same?

What say you?
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That’s why there is a difference between venial and mortal sins. There is a clear difference in the situation you describe. Its just common sense.
 
Ask your friend where in the ten commandments does it say I shall not call off sick from work. Everybody need a mental health day. Sometimes its because you are just tired, stressed, or sometimes you just need to have a break. I do not believe God would have a problem with that.

By the way when I call in sick for work. I am sick SICK OF WORK!:extrahappy: So see its not even a lie.😃
 
yellowbird said:
I am Catholic. My friend is Protestant. We’re talking about people who do horrible things… like abortion providers and the Nazis who murdered all those people and piled them in heaps like it was no big deal. She said that while those things are certainly terrible, the sins of those men are NO DIFFERENT from the sins she and I commit. So I gave her the example of gossip… let’s say that’s the sin I struggle with most. Is that sin the same as performing abortions or torturing and murdering people? She says yes. No different.

She believes:

sin = sin, therefore in God’s eyes: calling in sick to work when you’re not = sex before marriage = greed = raping a child = killing 6 million Jews. No difference.

I’m not asking if God could forgive all of those things… of course the answer is yes. I’m asking if YOU believe all sin is the same?

What say you?
Click to expand...
I’ve been through this (and it continues)… It makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever… Of course it is all sin that God can wash away, but that doesn’t mean it is all of equal value… How can they honestly say that God will judge a 10 yr old stealing a piece of gum the same as Hitler (I’ve been told it’s the same)… I highly doubt they would feel the same about somebody stealing their pumkins and someone shooting their spouse… I truly believe it is just another attempt to seperate themselves from the CC…

They mainly base this off of one verse (James 2:10-11)… which does point out that all sin will seperate us from God, but that doesn’t mean all sin will be judged equally… A good verse to counter that is in 1 John 5:16-17 which explains there is some sin that leads to death and some that doesn’t… There are other examples like the parable in Luke 12:47-48… which describes different punishment for different sins.

SD
 
I guess I shouldn’t day dream while I’m preparing my post… I was a little slow:blush:

SD
 
yellowbird said:
I am Catholic. My friend is Protestant. We’re talking about people who do horrible things… like abortion providers and the Nazis who murdered all those people and piled them in heaps like it was no big deal. She said that while those things are certainly terrible, the sins of those men are NO DIFFERENT from the sins she and I commit. So I gave her the example of gossip… let’s say that’s the sin I struggle with most. Is that sin the same as performing abortions or torturing and murdering people? She says yes. No different.

She believes:

sin = sin, therefore in God’s eyes: calling in sick to work when you’re not = sex before marriage = greed = raping a child = killing 6 million Jews. No difference.

I’m not asking if God could forgive all of those things… of course the answer is yes. I’m asking if YOU believe all sin is the same?

What say you?
Click to expand...
I think that what your friend perhaps has to the forefront of her mind is that there is no such thing as a little sin. I daresay most people would agree with such a notion but I don’t think doing so necessarily leads to the conclusion that all sins are the same.

I would suggest that there is a hierarchy of sins. It seems to me to be wayward to suggest that all sins are the same. Such a stance taken to its logical conclusion will result in the declaration that God sees no difference between the life Mother Teresa led and the one Joseph Stalin led. To suggest something like that is an insult to God because it implies that God has no sense of justice. Surely, the desire for equity that we find within ourselves – for example, the notion that murder is worse than forgetting to fast – comes from God? If so, when we display a sense of fairness or justice and when we are appalled by unfairness or injustice we are reflecting the fact that we’re made in God’s image.

But I think there’s a difference between justice and judgment. Both are God’s prerogative but Saint James tells us that mercy triumphs over judgment. He doesn’t suggest that mercy triumphs over justice. God’s mercy upon the greater – and even the greatest – sinner in no way intrudes upon God’s justice. God’s justice identifies the sin as great or greater. But His mercy is even greater still, as He shows when He uses it in His judgment. With that in mind we can begin to appreciate the danger in which we put ourselves when we judge others. In our humanity we can understand judgment only in terms of punishment and condemnation. But God’s ways are not our ways. If we could only judge as God does we would be so different. We’d never say a bad word about anybody ever again.

I won’t go so far as to suggest a hierarchy of consequences, though. I think there’s a difference between making a judgment about an action or deed and passing judgment upon a person or persons. I suggest that it’s right and proper for us to enquire into the former and draw a conclusion i.e. decide whether or not there is a hierarchy of sins; but I think the latter is entirely the province of God. We may confidently trust that He is powerfully merciful and that His judgments are tempered with divine love and affection for our human nature, which He shared with us so that we can be completely assured that He fully understands each and every one of us.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍
 
I have a Baptist friend who believes the same. Sin is sin he says. Our justice system is based on Judeo-Christian principals. We have different punishments for different crimes. The person who steals a loaf of bread will not spend 10 years in jail. Bernie Madoff will spend over 100yrs for his crime as his stealing was greater than a loaf of bread. Jesus also says that there are different degrees of sin:

“…That is why he who handed me over to you is guilty of the *greater *sin”. John19:11
 
SSTeacher said:
… Such a stance taken to its logical conclusion will result in the declaration that God sees no difference between the life Mother Teresa led and the one Joseph Stalin led…
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Had Christ not come, that would be precisely the case. Both Stalin and MT have enough sin on their souls that they are inherently unworthy and incapable of living together with God in Heaven. The only alternative is hell. That’s where we’d ALL be headed without Jesus.

Again, the difference is Jesus! MT can’t really be considered apart from Jesus since it was Jesus who made her what she was.
 
manualman said:
From God’s perspective ANY sin places one apart from Him and creates a void between us that man cannot cross via his own strength. That’s why eating one stupid apple ultimately made this wonderful world such a disaster area.

But we aren’t Adam and Eve. As christians, we’ve been redeemed and are in the process of being sanctified. During this process, we can make choices that either totally set us back (mortal sin) or partially set us back (venial sins). The difference is the Redeemer! Jesus hasn’t just restored us to what Adam and Eve were before the fall. By dying to redeem us, He gave us GREATER value and dignity than they possessed before the fall. God himself loved us enough to die to save us. How awesome is that?

Some protestants don’t understand catholic distinctions about severity of sin AFTER redemption because they don’t believe sin has any meaning anymore. If their theology holds that behavior is irrelevant and faith is all that saves you then you can understand how they come to their conclusions. (e.g. All sin is mortal for the unbeliever and all sin is irrelevant to the saved.)
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And the converse is also true…Catholics don’t understand Protestant distinctions about the severity of sin AFTER redemption because they mis-characterize what it is that Protestants believe…Arminian belief is different than Calvinist belief…every Protestant I’ve met believes that sin…“mortal” or “venial” impacts one’s relationship with God…sometimes with dire consequenses…redemption verses sanctification is a very real Protestant belief. The doctrine of Eternal Security from what I understand does not imply that sin after “redemption” is irrelevant…most often Catholics speak past Protestants…and visa-versa…perpetuating the misunderstandings each of our respective faith traditions espouse…this too is “sin”.

God is the One who forgives sin…sactifies the believer and keeps us in His grace through faith in Him…many Calvinists have peculiar way of explaining their belief system…I don’t pretend to understand the nuances…but I do understand “sin” is a very real concern for those who follow Christ…either through Catholic, Calvinsist or Arminian traditions.
 
How about mortal sin and venial sin also. I don’t think if someone wanted to blow off a day at work is sinning against God. But to break a commandment knowing thy shall not kill, now taking a life thats sinning against God.:rolleyes:
 
manualman said:
Had Christ not come, that would be precisely the case. Both Stalin and MT have enough sin on their souls that they are inherently unworthy and incapable of living together with God in Heaven. The only alternative is hell. That’s where we’d ALL be headed without Jesus.

Again, the difference is Jesus! MT can’t really be considered apart from Jesus since it was Jesus who made her what she was.
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Well, Christ did come so I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. Would you care to clarify?

Cordially,
Mick
👍
 
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Publisher:
every Protestant I’ve met believes that sin…“mortal” or “venial” impacts one’s relationship with God…sometimes with dire consequenses…redemption verses sanctification is a very real Protestant belief. The doctrine of Eternal Security from what I understand does not imply that sin after “redemption” is irrelevant…

Well then you must not know enough of them:)… It didn’t take me long to find one that didn’t believe this… as a kid she was raised in the same house as me.

SD
 
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