Calling in sick to work when you're not sick is no different from murdering 6 million people? Catholics, Protestants, Muslims.. what say you?

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I am Catholic. My friend is Protestant. We’re talking about people who do horrible things… like abortion providers and the Nazis who murdered all those people and piled them in heaps like it was no big deal. She said that while those things are certainly terrible, the sins of those men are NO DIFFERENT from the sins she and I commit. So I gave her the example of gossip… let’s say that’s the sin I struggle with most. Is that sin the same as performing abortions or torturing and murdering people? She says yes. No different.

She believes:

sin = sin, therefore in God’s eyes: calling in sick to work when you’re not = sex before marriage = greed = raping a child = killing 6 million Jews. No difference.

I’m not asking if God could forgive all of those things… of course the answer is yes. I’m asking if YOU believe all sin is the same?

What say you?
This truncated understanding of ethics is one of the sequalae of separation from the Apostolic Tradition. It is also part of the black and white simplistic thinking about sin that emanates from the American Fundamentalist movement. Even aside from any “religious” views on ethics, it does not even follow any good common sense!

Jesus Himself, the finest ethicist that ever lived, was clear that there are degrees of sin.

John 19:10-11
11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.”

Knowledge to do wrong, and willful planning to do wrong is a “greater sin” than falling into wrongdoing unwittingly. What Pilate did to Jesus was wrong, but those who handed Him over to Pilate had a greater sin.
 
Kalt: Your comments about tubbers make no sense at all. Plants do not have a central nervous system. You must view the video to comment, or the comments can not correlate to the topic. We must respect ALL of life. God designed this planet perfectly–there is a perfect balance that we humans disrupt, malign, abuse and tarnish. Please view the video–I would appreciate your well thought out response to it. I don’t think this is what God intended for our planet, for us. The behavior in this video is disrespectful to God–I think it is** Sin **with a capital S. Kalt, please view the video and and I would love to hear your reaction and commentary on if you think this IS God’s way.

P.S. You say that you think it is wrong to abuse animals, but that it is OK to eat meat. Please view the video and explain how you can eat meat from animals that are abused. The vast majority of meat, dairy, and eggs are produced with great suffering. Is that OK? There are small farms where animals are free range and live a more natural existence, and those products can be bought in a store (e.g. your local co-op or a progressive market like Whole Foods). Is this all irrelevant to God? If you see the video, tell me how you think God feels about what we are allowing to happen by looking the other way and pretending that this is not happening?
This isn’t the topic of the thread. Please start your own thread about the evils of killing meat.
 
This truncated understanding of ethics is one of the sequalae of separation from the Apostolic Tradition. It is also part of the black and white simplistic thinking about sin that emanates from the American Fundamentalist movement. Even aside from any “religious” views on ethics, it does not even follow any good common sense!

Jesus Himself, the finest ethicist that ever lived, was clear that there are degrees of sin.

John 19:10-11
11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.”

Knowledge to do wrong, and willful planning to do wrong is a “greater sin” than falling into wrongdoing unwittingly. What Pilate did to Jesus was wrong, but those who handed Him over to Pilate had a greater sin.
I agree. I just don’t understand where they come up with this stuff? WHO would want to raise a child in a religion where the importance of being obedient to God and trying to live as Jesus lived, isn’t stressed? How is forgiveness taught? We know that the bar is high, but when we fall short and we’re sorry, God forgives us… just as we forgive others. I just don’t see how this concept is clearly taught if those Christians believe, as deb1 said, that “true Christians” don’t sin - which we all know isn’t even true. We all fall short… thankfully our Lord is merciful. I’ve read of their Pastors sinning … good Pastors - pillars of their Church who fell into sin. It makes me sad to think that the members of their congregation must now question if their Pastor was ever a “Christians” to begin with, rather than believing that he fell into sin… big sin - and yet God is bigger and He can forgive anything. Because the individual members of these types of churches KNOW that although their personal sins might not be splashed all over the headlines… they know in their hearts they are there.

Or don’t they deb1? Do these sorts of Christians (it’s a huge non-denom mega church…) actually believe they no longer sin?
 
Great idea. Don’t know how. I’ll fgure it out eventually. Calling in sick, levels of sin, seems it is the topic…
 
Great idea. Don’t know how. I’ll fgure it out eventually. Calling in sick, levels of sin, seems it is the topic…
I was trying to talk about the concept Catholics vs. Non Catholics have of sin in general… are all sins the same in God’s eyes… rather than what specifically constitutes sin.

If you’d like to discuss your topic, and I do think it would make for intersting conversation, I think maybe the Moral Theology subform under Apologetics…it’s for ethical dilemmas. Just click on “new thread” … it’s on the left at the top of the list of threads.

🙂
 
Only God knows if they are equal.
So all your common sense wont work.

Where in the bible does it give weight of sin?

I think yellow bird and her friend are fighting over a issue only the Almighty can answer, not us sinners.🤷
You are right, only God knows. That is why it is so inappropriate for us to judge ourselves.

Luke 12:47-48
47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.

Notice in this pasage that both servants receive a “beating” because they did not measure up to the standard. However, thoe one who knows more, and fails to act in accordance with his knowledge receives a more “severe” beating. Knowledge of sin is one of the elements that distinguishes the “greater sin” from the “lesser sin”.
 
Great idea. Don’t know how. I’ll fgure it out eventually. Calling in sick, levels of sin, seems it is the topic…
Why did you say you didn’t know how to start a new thread when YESTERDAY you started this one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=324253&page=2

Obviously you DID know… which means you weren’t being truthful. And as a cough CATHOLIC cough, you know that being anything but truthful is lying…which is actually sinful.

But not as sinful as killing 6 million people.
 
Why did you say you didn’t know how to start a new thread when YESTERDAY you started this one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=324253&page=2

Obviously you DID know… which means you weren’t being truthful. And as a cough CATHOLIC cough, you know that being anything but truthful is lying…which is actually sinful.

But not as sinful as killing 6 million people.
That does really seem a bit disingenuous. He may also need to read the forum rules, because he may not realize that jumping around on various threads grinding the same axe is frowned upon here. Not as bad as animal torture, though. 😉
 
Kalt: Your comments about tubbers make no sense at all. Plants do not have a central nervous system. You must view the video to comment, or the comments can not correlate to the topic. We must respect ALL of life. God designed this planet perfectly–there is a perfect balance that we humans disrupt, malign, abuse and tarnish. Please view the video–I would appreciate your well thought out response to it. I don’t think this is what God intended for our planet, for us. The behavior in this video is disrespectful to God–I think it is** Sin **with a capital S. Kalt, please view the video and and I would love to hear your reaction and commentary on if you think this IS God’s way.

P.S. You say that you think it is wrong to abuse animals, but that it is OK to eat meat. Please view the video and explain how you can eat meat from animals that are abused. The vast majority of meat, dairy, and eggs are produced with great suffering. Is that OK? There are small farms where animals are free range and live a more natural existence, and those products can be bought in a store (e.g. your local co-op or a progressive market like Whole Foods). Is this all irrelevant to God? If you see the video, tell me how you think God feels about what we are allowing to happen by looking the other way and pretending that this is not happening?
I saw the video. It is purely propaganda full of untruths, lies, and twisted statements. It is made by PETA,so I would expect nothing less from them.

The bolded statement above is so untrue, it is laughable. “The vast majority” - :rolleyes: Some, probably. As any competant educated farmer knows, you must treat the animals well to get the most profit. So PETA found a few bad eggs and then hold them up as the industry standard. This is so far from the truth, it is ridiculous. (My farmers were and still are farmers, so I have known quite a few farmers in my lifetime, so I know of what I speak.)👍

Ask yourself this Marfran, why isn’t PETA so concerned with killed and abused babies - abortion?:mad:

PETA has an agenda, pure and simple. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif I don’t believe one word they say.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif

For me, PETA means People Eating Tasty Animals. (Jesus also ate lamb, btw).

(And quit hijacking threads - read the rules and post only on the appropriate forum. Lack of meat protein may cause your brain to do odd things…have a hamburger, read the rules, and then post only on the appropriate forum!)
 
(And quit hijacking threads - read the rules and post only on the appropriate forum. Lack of meat protein may cause your brain to do odd things…have a hamburger, read the rules, and then post only on the appropriate forum!)
I cannot believe you would suggest that this poster should eat a hamburger!!! That’s rather insensitve, don’t you think?

Everyone knows that cheeseburgers are MUCH better. 😛
 
I cannot believe you would suggest that this poster should eat a hamburger!!! That’s rather insensitve, don’t you think?

Everyone knows that cheeseburgers are MUCH better. 😛
Sorry - my bad.😛

Maybe a bacon cheeseburger?😃
 
*Off topic posts deleted.

Please remain on topic and maintain the highest levels of charity.*
 
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Or don’t they deb1? Do these sorts of Christians (it’s a huge non-denom mega church…) actually believe they no longer sin?
I don’t know if they, deep down, really believe what they claim. I don’t see how they could. I do know that there is a lot of pressure in such churches to conform and prove one’s salvation. It would be interesting to know where how this type of convoluted thinking on sin and salvation evolved because it is not Biblical and not shared by all Protestants.
 
Because the young lady referred to trying to do good, they saw her as depending on her own ability and not Christ’s.
Yes, I agree. This is likely what happened. They probably interpreted it as a salvation issue.

Remember, yellowbird, this sounds like a group of younger folk talking extemporaneously, and not a carefully considered dialogue, where one takes special care to understand the language of the other. Probably if the conversation had continued, they would have agreed that Paul is giving good advice here:

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
 
This is another thing I don’t understand: At youth group, her daughter (13) was asked: Are you a Christian? Her daughter said, “Yes.” When asked how she knew she was a Christian, her daughter said, “Well, I love Jesus… I believe in Him… and I try to do what’s right.” They said that was the WRONG answer. The “trying to do what’s right” apparently killed it for her.

Huh? Since when is trying to do what’s right something a Christian SHOULDN’T do?

My Protestant friends… what say you?
Good things are good. Doing what’s right is the right thing to do. Protestants realize this. Even atheists realize this. Many Protestants (take a look at that Lordship Salvation link) even go as far as saying perseverance and sanctification are both required and assured (guaranteed) results of salvation that act as evidence of true (saving) faith according to the sustaining grace of Christ.

Here’s the thing, though. Your friend’s daughter came across like a person who has “fallen from grace.” Seriously? Yes. Good works related to sanctification are required and assured results of salvation. They are evidence of God’s grace at work in your life. This is the topic of several books in the Bible, including James. These kinds of books were written to people who thought they could give mental assent to the Gospel then go be “carnal Christians,” as it were. This is just one side of the coin, though.

Other epistles, including the one to the Galatians, dealt with the sort of people who believed salvation was by grace through faith as well as human effort through works. They were the people who believed strict adherence to the Law was the process by which a person is justified- this working together with faith, of course.

The story you told describes a girl who’s been taught something similar: Some combination of faith plus works is what justifies. That’s how she came across, anyway. Here is what Galatians 5:4 says about the nature of justification.

“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

That’s the NIV. The KJV says it this way.

“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

When someone tells you they’re doing good things, that’s a good thing. However, when someone tells you they are trying to be justified by the law, it is entirely appropriate to have a little discussion about what it means to be under grace, what it means to be under the law, and what it means to fall from grace. We probably have different ideas about what it means to fall away from grace, but in either case, it’s not a good thing.

That’s where I’m coming from. What about you? Are you trying to be justified by the law? If you are, you know what that means. Yes, good works are good. Yes, pleasing God is good. Yes, it is required and assured that a Christian will do good works.

But…

No, it is not good to try and be justified by good works. This is the very definition of falling from grace, and it’s not a good thing. That doesn’t mean you should stop doing good things. But if you are currently trying to be justified by the law, you do need to stop falling away from grace, come back to it, and stop being alienated from Christ. Does that sound ok?
 
If it makes you feel any better alot of Protestant denominations have all Catholics,Hindu’s,Muslims,mormons, going to hell! It always amused me how these johnny come lately church’s are the authority all of a sudden. Two thousand years of succession from the apostles means nothing to them. There are venial sins and mortal sins. According to St.faustina there are also levels of hell and different punishments for more severe sins. According to Faustina’s diary, the Lord showed her hell and all it’s sufferings. I just pray that NO ONE goes there and the Lord has mercy on everybody. We use the term “Go to Hell” so loosley. If people only really thought about what they were saying.I don’t even like to talk about this subject.
 
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