Calvinism

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I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
 
From the Compendium Catechism
**
**
**
CHAPTER ONE
** The Dignity of the Human Person
MAN THE IMAGE OF GOD
358. What is the root of human dignity?

1699-1715
The dignity of the human person is rooted in his or her creation in the image and likeness of God. Endowed with a spiritual and immortal soul, intelligence and free will, the human person is ordered to God and called in soul and in body to eternal beatitude.

426. What is merit?
2006-2010
2025-2026
In general merit refers to the right to recompense for a good deed. With regard to God, we of ourselves are not able to merit anything, having received everything freely from him. However, God gives us the possibility of acquiring merit through union with the love of Christ, who is the source of our merits before God. The merits for good works, therefore must be attributed in the first place to the grace of God and then to the free will of man.

Staff apologist Michelle Arnold has answered this a few times and her response should help you out a lot.

Do Catholics believe in predestination?

Other sources that may also help are:
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Catholics don’t believe in Predestination in the Protestant sense, Look up Pre-ordination.
Also, catholic grace and protestant grace mean different things.

You really need to research Catholicism for a long time before converting.
Catholicism and Calvinism are world’s apart.

There are certain catholic doctrines you might want to research into. Read the Catechism.

Catholics don’t tend to read the Bible, so we don’t have that culture that protestants have with discussing scripture. That’s a big cultural change. But Roman Catholics are by far more aware of morality much more so than protestants. Because of the theological framework.

I like Roman Catholics for their morality awareness, and good works. There is more truth in Catholicism for this reason, not just lip service payers but actual living the faith type of people, but more according to the Catechism which is an interpretation from scripture. Like I say, research the doctrines.

Even if you don’t agree with a few of the doctrines, would you still convert?
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
As a Lutheran, you already have some answers to the issue, as found in the Book of Concord, specifically the Augsburg Confession:

bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.php#article18

Interestingly, this particular article was approved by the Confutation.

As a side note, should you be moved to convert to Catholicism, I wish you every blessing in word and sacrament there.

Jon
 
Catholics don’t believe in Predestination in the Protestant sense, Look up Pre-ordination.
Also, catholic grace and protestant grace mean different things.
👍
You really need to research Catholicism for a long time before converting.
Catholicism and Calvinism are world’s apart.
I think this statement might be misleading to some. The Church has the RCIA program (once a week for some months; less than a year) after which one can enter the Catholic Church. I guess I don’t consider that a long time.
Catholics don’t tend to read the Bible, so we don’t have that culture that protestants have with discussing scripture. That’s a big cultural change.
Catholics have Bible readings which they hear/read at every Mass. Catholics are required to go to Mass every Sunday, so at least once every week they are hearing passages from the Old Testament, the Psalms, and the New Testament.

Personal Bible reading at home is not required but is most certainly encouraged by the Church.
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Here’s my article with CCC and Magisterial references called What does the Church teach on Predestination. 😉
 
Discussions like this always remind me of the title of a chapter in the book Chosen by God by R.C. Sproul: “Double, double, toil and trouble; is predestination double?” 😃

My take on this issue is rather simplistic, from an illustration that I read in someone else’s book: The Kingdom of God is like a huge park with a fence around it, and over the gate is written, “Whosoever will.” Then when you enter the Kingdom and look back at the gate, you find that the writing over the gate says, “I have chosen you.” This kind of argument won’t convince your friends, but the passages from Scripture on which it is based are irrefutable.
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Hi Larael,

you might find this site very useful in your present situation:

www.calledtocommunion.com

In Christ
P7
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Hi Larael,

you might find this site very useful in your present situation:

www.calledtocommunion.com

In Christ
P7
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Don’t really have the time to go through biblical or CCC passages, however, I would refer you to St. Augustine’s writings on predestination. In a nutshell, dumbed down to layman’s level, the gist of St. Augustine’s take comes down to this:

God is beyond the bounds of time;

Our own desitnation is NOT OURS TO KNOW–because we ARE bound by time;

From our own vantage point, we do have Free Will, and we do (essentially) control our own destinies–God simply knows how that plays/played/will play out–from His omnipotent/omnicient vantage point (to the extent it could be described as such–that is, as a ‘point’);

Hence, while the Cat. Church teaches and believes in pre-destination, it does not put a great deal of emphasis on it (unlike Calvinism) for the simple reason that even our own pre-desitnation, is NOT OURS TO KNOW–because we ARE bound by time.

NOTE: however, the Catholic Church does NOT teach or believe in double predestination, while Calvinism does. (Double PD meaning that some folks are pre-destined for damnation).

The bottom line, is that the Catholic Church doesn’t place much emphasis on it–if not straight up de-emphasizing it–because of the potential (likely) counterproductive/adverse effects teaching it could have. So the Church emphasizes the relevant aspect–the view from our vantage point. IOW, as far as we’re concerned, we can control our destiny, by believing in Chirst, keeping is dual commandment (charity), refraining from sin, and keeping the sacraments.

If that is out of our hands…well, only God knew (knows) that.

Why give folks an easy out? Why give folks an excuse not to keep the commandments, not to obey Chirst’s commamdments, not to love one anther etc, if it was never theirs/ours to know at all?

I never understood Calivinists emphasis on this issue. It doesn’t do anyone at all, any good at all. It just doesn’t. It’s not ours to know. So acknowledge the God knows…and move on to that which is in our control–our own thoughts, words and actions.

IMHO.
 
I’m in a difficult spot right now . . . I’m a college student feeling completely convinced and called to conversion to the RCC, but I’m living with three friends of mine who are all fundamentalist. I would say their beliefs are extremely Calvinistic in many ways. The issue of God’s sovereignty versus man’s responsibility has come up a lot recently, and I just know I’m going to have to face the issue of free will.

Amongst themselves, I think they are unsure whether a person has the free will to reject or accept God in any fashion. I just want to be ready with my answers in case they get into a discussion.

What does the Church say about predestination, free will, and God’s sovereignty? I’m having trouble finding Biblical evidence (which would be the easiest way to discuss with my roommates). Anything that the CCC might say on the subject would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Scripture teaches predestination. The Catholic Church teaches predestination. Calvin taught an evil and corrupt view of predestination

Predestination http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Predestination
Predestinarianism http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Predestinarianism

**2 Pet 1: **5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
Thank you all for the great resources! I should have gotten back to this thread sooner instead of waiting for my roommates to broach the topic again. Many blessings!
 
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